2024 QB Watch

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Here's the same guy on Drake Maye...

Woke up early to study more film of Drake Maye

Did all his offensive snaps from the Clemson game. There was some good, but also some head-scratching bad…

The good:
Nice ball against C2 here down the sideline. Knows where he wants to go with the ball and places it perfectly pic.twitter.com/0VEDHyy4Qb

— Mark Tyler (Hogs Haven) (@Tiller56) February 4, 2024

I've never really warmed to Maye after doing a fan deep dive on him a few months ago. Wanted to see what all the hype was about.....and I never saw it. JMO. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Here's the same guy on Drake Maye...

Woke up early to study more film of Drake Maye

Did all his offensive snaps from the Clemson game. There was some good, but also some head-scratching bad…

The good:
Nice ball against C2 here down the sideline. Knows where he wants to go with the ball and places it perfectly pic.twitter.com/0VEDHyy4Qb

— Mark Tyler (Hogs Haven) (@Tiller56) February 4, 2024

I've never really warmed to Maye after doing a fan deep dive on him a few months ago. Wanted to see what all the hype was about.....and I never saw it. JMO. 

Honestly, I think it's mostly about his prototypical NFL QB traits. He looks like Justin Herbert. But when you put him on you see a lot of flaws. True with all of them, but I expected more from a guy some think is the 1st or 2nd best QB in the best QB class in years. 

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said: At some point you would think that fans would stop making excuses for why this team hasn't been competitive since 2009! 

@"minny65" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said: At some point you would think that fans would stop making excuses for why this team hasn't been competitive since 2009! 

Careful, you might be called out as too negative for the rah rah, all is well, crowd.  

Maye shuffles his feet in the pocket and drifts towards the side he intends to throw to.  Needs to learn to set and go through progressions.  His play is uneven.  Sometimes makes reads, sometimes locks on a guy.  Makes a great throw then one that misses badly.  His footwork is all over the place. 

Plays behind a weak line and with bad receivers, so he will arrive in the NFL with the ability to move and throw under pressure.  Hard to find examples of him throwing from a clean pocket with open targets.  Throws a nice deep ball.  Has the size and tools and good straight line speed.  Can slide when he remembers to but usually crashes into defenders-another inconsistent trait.  Throws into tight coverage and makes the occasional wtf throw that gets picked.  

He'll get drafted high and need a lot of work to clean up the issues.  Could develop into a solid top 10-15 type guy like Kirk.  I don't see him as that franchise game changer that every team is hoping to find but some team will try to sell that to it's fanbase regardless.  Reminds me of Matt Stafford with that ability to look great on one play then kill the drive on the next one.  A football roller coaster ride, if you enjoy that sort of thing.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Here's the same guy on Drake Maye...

Woke up early to study more film of Drake Maye

Did all his offensive snaps from the Clemson game. There was some good, but also some head-scratching bad…

The good:
Nice ball against C2 here down the sideline. Knows where he wants to go with the ball and places it perfectly pic.twitter.com/0VEDHyy4Qb

— Mark Tyler (Hogs Haven) (@Tiller56) February 4, 2024

I've never really warmed to Maye after doing a fan deep dive on him a few months ago. Wanted to see what all the hype was about.....and I never saw it. JMO. 

Honestly, I think it's mostly about his prototypical NFL QB traits. He looks like Justin Herbert. But when you put him on you see a lot of flaws. True with all of them, but I expected more from a guy some think is the 1st or 2nd best QB in the best QB class in years. 

I think there is a certain allure projecting Maye into the Shannahan/McVay offense. I personally really like each of Williams/Maye/Daniels. But Maye is the one I feel best about playing in structure. Can definitely see why KOC particularly would like him. He's not perfect. Not many rookie QBs are. His supporting cast also didn't help him much. But you're getting a guy who's diverse and can beat any defense with his arm. Every blade of grass is in-play. Then add in some mobility and you have something. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Here's the same guy on Drake Maye...

Woke up early to study more film of Drake Maye

Did all his offensive snaps from the Clemson game. There was some good, but also some head-scratching bad…

The good:
Nice ball against C2 here down the sideline. Knows where he wants to go with the ball and places it perfectly pic.twitter.com/0VEDHyy4Qb

— Mark Tyler (Hogs Haven) (@Tiller56) February 4, 2024

I've never really warmed to Maye after doing a fan deep dive on him a few months ago. Wanted to see what all the hype was about.....and I never saw it. JMO. 

Honestly, I think it's mostly about his prototypical NFL QB traits. He looks like Justin Herbert. But when you put him on you see a lot of flaws. True with all of them, but I expected more from a guy some think is the 1st or 2nd best QB in the best QB class in years. 

I think there is a certain allure projecting Maye into the Shannahan/McVay offense. I personally really like each of Williams/Maye/Daniels. But Maye is the one I feel best about playing in structure. Can definitely see why KOC particularly would like him. He's not perfect. Not many rookie QBs are. His supporting cast also didn't help him much. But you're getting a guy who's diverse and can beat any defense with his arm. Every blade of grass is in-play. Then add in some mobility and you have something. 

% of 3rd down pass attempts that resulted in a 1st down in 2023:

48.21 - Jayden Daniels
48.10 - J.J. McCarthy
43.82 - Bo Nix
42.31 - Caleb Williams
39.29 - Drake Maye
37.93 - Michael Penix pic.twitter.com/P867fU48dH

— Dane Brugler (@dpbrugler) February 5, 2024

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1754501215788900653?s=20

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1754501215788900653?s=20

Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1754501215788900653?s=20

Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection. 

One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1754501215788900653?s=20

Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection. 

One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.

I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1754501215788900653?s=20

Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1754501215788900653?s=20

Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection. 

One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.

I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB. 

@"comet52" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1754501215788900653?s=20

Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection. 

One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.

I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB. 

What's the upside to drafting a QB then having him sit through most of the years you have cost control?

 Do KAM/KOC want to hitch their carees to aging Kirk off an achilles injury?

 Is the fan base going to stay interested in a team that wins 7-10 games every year and never does squat in the playoffs? The home field advantage seems to have evaporated and a friend who goes to every game says it feels dead in there a lot of the time.

As always I wonder what the direction is and can't see one that leads anywhere beyond revenue as the primary concern. Ymmv.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1754501215788900653?s=20

Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection. 

One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.

I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB. 

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1754501215788900653?s=20

Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection. 

One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.

I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB. 

If this is the case and Kirk is trying to make it difficult (i.e. stick it to us) and force our hand...see ya!! I'd rather go 4-13 next season with Minshew at QB and a rookie sitting behind him than get bent over a barrel by Cousins and his agent again coming off an achillies tear. Like I said, let some other team take that risk and the guarantees that accompany it..

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1754501215788900653?s=20

Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection. 

One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.

I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB. 

What's the upside to drafting a QB then having him sit through most of the years you have cost control?

 Do KAM/KOC want to hitch their carees to aging Kirk off an achilles injury?

 Is the fan base going to stay interested in a team that wins 7-10 games every year and never does squat in the playoffs? The home field advantage seems to have evaporated and a friend who goes to every game says it feels dead in there a lot of the time.

As always I wonder what the direction is and can't see one that leads anywhere beyond revenue as the primary concern. Ymmv.

It'll be interesting to hear Geoff...

 Some of my own thoughts:

 There is a BIG downside to pushing a rook QB out there too early
 GB imo is best in bringing a QB along
 None of the Tier 2 guys (who are the highest probability of being a Viking) are viewed as year 1 starters 
 Vikings with Kirk were 13/3 with a 28 ranked D just a season removed, 23 was an injury shit show

 All that said, I am not sure the Vikings and Kirk are going to reach agreement on a structure, especially with how Geoff is laying-out what Cousins is looking for.  

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1754501215788900653?s=20

Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection. 

One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.

I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB. 

What's the upside to drafting a QB then having him sit through most of the years you have cost control?

 Do KAM/KOC want to hitch their carees to aging Kirk off an achilles injury?

 Is the fan base going to stay interested in a team that wins 7-10 games every year and never does squat in the playoffs? The home field advantage seems to have evaporated and a friend who goes to every game says it feels dead in there a lot of the time.

As always I wonder what the direction is and can't see one that leads anywhere beyond revenue as the primary concern. Ymmv.

It'll be interesting to hear Geoff...

 Some of my own thoughts:

 There is a BIG downside to pushing a rook QB out there too early
 GB imo is best in bringing a QB along
 None of the Tier 2 guys (who are the highest probability of being a Viking) are viewed as year 1 starters 
 Vikings with Kirk were 13/3 with a 28 ranked D just a season removed, 23 was an injury shit show

 All that said, I am not sure the Vikings and Kirk are going to reach agreement on a structure, especially with how Geoff is laying-out what Cousins is looking for.  

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1754501215788900653?s=20

Feel like most will be surprised to see JJ McCarthy so high on the list. People bag on him for not really carrying Michigan, but if you watch his tape in detail he really made a lot of throws when they needed it most, which plays into that 3rd down %. Pulls out the storyline that Michigan may just have not needed to throw it much to win. Still don't think we saw what McCarthy can or can't be in that offense. Tough projection. 

One thing McCarthy has developed that will help his pro career is play-action. He's excellent at hiding it, much like Cousins. I think he's got a bunch of upside, he's a young guy who just turned 21 years old and would benefit greatly by being drafted by Minnesota and sitting behind Cousins.

I haven't seen this comp much, but McCarthy reminds me a lot of Brock Purdy with a better arm. That's good enough in the right environment. But I do think it leads you to believe there will be some limitations. But you nailed the fact that McCarthy needs to probably sit at least a year. I just don't think that will be Kirk if its the route they go. Kirk and his camp are very aware the Vikings may draft a developmental QB and won't sign a deal that makes that a favorable outcome for MN. E.G they'll ask for guarantees through year 2 and partial guarantees into the 3rd year of a contract with no trade clause. I wouldn't read that as Kirk not wanting to be a team player. Its rather he wants it to be his team without the media pressure and fan favoritism towards a backup QB. 

What's the upside to drafting a QB then having him sit through most of the years you have cost control?

 Do KAM/KOC want to hitch their carees to aging Kirk off an achilles injury?

 Is the fan base going to stay interested in a team that wins 7-10 games every year and never does squat in the playoffs? The home field advantage seems to have evaporated and a friend who goes to every game says it feels dead in there a lot of the time.

As always I wonder what the direction is and can't see one that leads anywhere beyond revenue as the primary concern. Ymmv.

It'll be interesting to hear Geoff...

 Some of my own thoughts:

 There is a BIG downside to pushing a rook QB out there too early
 GB imo is best in bringing a QB along
 None of the Tier 2 guys (who are the highest probability of being a Viking) are viewed as year 1 starters 
 Vikings with Kirk were 13/3 with a 28 ranked D just a season removed, 23 was an injury shit show

 All that said, I am not sure the Vikings and Kirk are going to reach agreement on a structure, especially with how Geoff is laying-out what Cousins is looking for.  

A lot will come down to who is interested and how his market shapes up. If in the end its hot and some ready to win teams like the Falcons, Steelers, etc. want to go for it over the next 2-3 years I don't really see how they are going to find a contract structure that works for MN. Comet said it well, Kirk doesn't want to be a bridge QB, he is looking to compete and win. So the Vikings can't really have it both ways. In other terms its where you are either competitive or rebuilding and aren't undergoing a competitive rebuild. 

Leaves MN in a real funny spot either needing to keep the pedal down on competing now or trading up for a high-end rookie QB who can play immediately. 

Well that tears it, Kirk is against the competitive rebuild, blasphemy I say…!  ;) B)