NFL Draft Talk
Thought we could make a general draft discussion thread with the Combine approaching. Just a few pre combine thoughts I had while digging in on some early evaluations;
- There could be as many as 7 cornerbacks going in the 1st round. While I don't see any elite, Patrick Surtain type's, the position is deep and talented. I'd be pretty upset if the Vikings took a cornerback, but there will be some talented corners still on the board when our pick comes up.
- I absolutely love this group of linebackers. Drew Sanders, Noah Sewell, and the Simpson kid from Clemson all look like really good prospects who offer some scheme flexibility. Hicks won't be back for us and they still have a decision to make on Kendricks. It's possible all 3 of these guys are still on the board at #23 and would be really good picks.
- I've got Jalin Hyatt as my #1 WR in this class. He would be an absolute home run pick for us and give us a deep threat dimension this offense is sorely lacking. I'm going to be very curious how teams separate Johnston, Addison, Zay Flowers, and Smith-Njigba after that.
- Not a great crop of defensive lineman. I think we can find some scheme specific bodies with our mid round picks but otherwise need to be active in free agency. We are going to continue running this crap 3-4 and IMO all three down lineman positions need to be upgraded. A couple guys I'll be watching at the combine are Ika the nose tackle from Baylor (LSU transfer), Gervon Baxter from Florida, and Keeanu Benton from Wisconsin. All bigger bodies that fit our scheme and to me defensive line is the biggest position of need on this roster.
- My early overrated list: Tyree Wilson, Myles Murphy, Bryan Bresee, and Paris Johnson.
- I'd be shocked to see the Vikings draft a QB. If we trade down and add more picks, then taking someone like Hendon Hooker and stashing him away for a year makes a lot of sense. I think it's far more likely we add a Sam Darnold in free agency or trade for someone like Zac Wilson on the low end.
@"RS Express" said:So, the question is do we need to move ahead of Tampa just to have a shot at Hooker never mind a falling Levi? The Bills move up 5 spots from 12 to 7 for Josh Allen and the Chiefs moved up from 27 to 10 for Mahomes. If you have conviction in a QB I think you have to make a move. Maybe we don't think Hooker or even Levi are worth moving up for I have no idea but if they were to make a move, I would support it.@"minny65" said:Yes, because Tampa's current QB is Baker Mayfield and they're sitting at 19. If Levis doesn't drop, they might jump on the Hooker. However, if Levis does slide, the Bucs could move up for less and have more to give, then leaving Hooker for us.Do we need to worry about a Hooker being available when we call at 23?
@"minny65" said:Definitely. Choosing the right QB will always be a value, no matter the price.@"RS Express" said:So, the question is do we need to move ahead of Tampa just to have a shot at Hooker never mind a falling Levi? The Bills move up 5 spots from 12 to 7 for Josh Allen and the Chiefs moved up from 27 to 10 for Mahomes. If you have conviction in a QB I think you have to make a move. Maybe we don't think Hooker or even Levi are worth moving up for I have no idea but if they were to make a move, I would support it.@"minny65" said:Yes, because Tampa's current QB is Baker Mayfield and they're sitting at 19. If Levis doesn't drop, they might jump on the Hooker. However, if Levis does slide, the Bucs could move up for less and have more to give, then leaving Hooker for us.Do we need to worry about a Hooker being available when we call at 23?Anyone who "overpaid" by 10% for a house in 2018/2019 is not regretting it today.
Might have been persuaded to give up a bit of draft capital for Levis based on his 2021 performance. Saw enough of him in 2022 - believe I'd pass. I do like Hooker quite a bit but I don't know that I would throw a #1 at him.
Per Darren Wolfsen, the Vikings will have representatives at Kentuckys Pro Day today and KOC is "highly intrigued" with QB Wil Levis
@"supafreak84" said: Per Darren Wolfsen, the Vikings will have representatives at Kentuckys Pro Day today and KOC is "highly intrigued" with QB Wil LevisI don't doubt it. I think many teams are. I just can't comprehend how and what Minnesota would have to do secure Levis.
@"StickyBun" said:Probably more than most here would be comfortable with :p@"supafreak84" said: Per Darren Wolfsen, the Vikings will have representatives at Kentuckys Pro Day today and KOC is "highly intrigued" with QB Wil Levis I don't doubt it. I think many teams are. I just can't comprehend how and what Minnesota would have to do secure Levis.
@"purplefaithful" said:Of course. But if you hit on it, you have a Superbowl QB. I have no idea if Levis has that ability or not. Actually, nobody does right now, lol. But there's so much disinformation and liar's poker going on right now pre-Draft, its hard to glean what's real.@"StickyBun" said:Probably more than most here would be comfortable with :p@"supafreak84" said: Per Darren Wolfsen, the Vikings will have representatives at Kentuckys Pro Day today and KOC is "highly intrigued" with QB Wil Levis I don't doubt it. I think many teams are. I just can't comprehend how and what Minnesota would have to do secure Levis.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"minny65" said:@"MaroonBells" said: I couldn't care less about the knee or the age. He's either an NFL QB or he's not. Three, four years from now nobody's going to give a shit about his college knee injury, or the fact that he's 30 with ONLY 6, 7 more years left to play. They will only care if he's a good NFL QB or not.I'd take Hooker over Richardson.
But I think a bigger story to watch is Levis dropping. If he drops into the middle teens, that is a gift the Vikings should not pass up. Moving from 23 to, say, 15 is not an expensive move and it could pay off huge.
I like all of the above.I just found this move-up scenario for Levi - fwiw
A reputable mock draft has the Vikings trading up for Will Levis (msn.com)
"And now The Athletic's second of three beat writer mock drafts has the Vikings trading into the top 10 to take Kentucky quarterback Will Levis. Is the mock draft just cheap entertainment? Or is there some inside knowledge about the Vikings and interest in Levis?
Alec Lewis, who covers the Vikings for The Athletic, made a trade in the mock draft to acquire the No. 7 overall pick from the Raiders for the 23rd and 87th picks in this year's draft and their first-round pick in 2024.
In Lewis's explanation of the move, there were some juicy tidbits regarding the links between Vikings head coach Kevin O'Connell and Levis's coach at Kentucky, Liam Coen."Levis, a strong-armed passer, played for Liam Coen in 2021 at Kentucky. Coen spent three years on the Rams staff with O’Connell from 2018 to 2020, then replaced him as L.A.’s offensive coordinator in 2022. Leaping to No. 7 would take some heavy lifting, but the time comes for every team to shoot its shot."Two firsts and a third-rounder to get their future franchise quarterback and a sixth-round pick? It's a no-brainer if it works out, but if Levis busts it would be a huge whiff that sets the Vikings back years. "
I wouldn't go that high and I'm the president of the Will Levis fan club. But if he falls, a move from 23 to, say, 15 should only cost a '23 3rd and a '24 2nd. That I would do. But that's interesting about Coen.
Honestly, if the team has strong convictions about him and believe he can be their guy then I have no issues making the trade. Even if it costs next year's first rounder. I'll go with the braintrust for now.I'm still waiting to see if the team ends up trading both Z & Cook. Hopefully if that comes to fruition it might take a bit of the sting away.
Just a hunch, but if I were a betting man, I'd put money that QB's are the first four picks of this draft. Arizona will trade out of #3 to either Seattle or Oakland.
1. Carolina- Stroud
2. Houston- Young
3. Vegas (from AZ)- Anthony Richardson
4. Indy- Levis
Them you have Washington at 16, Tampa at 19, and Seattle at 20 who I'd imagine would all seriously consider Hendon Hooker
@"supafreak84" said: Just a hunch, but if I were a betting man, I'd put money that QB's are the first four picks of this draft. Arizona will trade out of #3 to either Seattle or Oakland.1. Carolina- Stroud
2. Houston- Young
3. Vegas (from AZ)- Anthony Richardson
4. Indy- LevisThem you have Washington at 16, Tampa at 19, and Seattle at 20 who I'd imagine would all seriously consider Hendon Hooker
I think you could be right about the QBs going top 4.
But it's pretty clear Carolina hasn't yet decided who they want. I don't typically try to predict what NFL teams are going to do. The teams at the top of the draft are there for a reason. They have a knack for fucking up even the simplest decisions.
Personally, I think taking Stroud over Young is a big mistake and a gift to Houston. And taking Richardson over Levis should result in some sort of red wedding in the front office.
@"MaroonBells" said: I couldn't care less about the knee or the age. He's either an NFL QB or he's not. Three, four years from now nobody's going to give a shit about his college knee injury, or the fact that he's 30 with ONLY 6, 7 more years left to play. They will only care if he's a good NFL QB or not.I'd take Hooker over Richardson.
But I think a bigger story to watch is Levis dropping. If he drops into the middle teens, that is a gift the Vikings should not pass up. Moving from 23 to, say, 15 is not an expensive move and it could pay off huge.
I would much rather gamble on Levis than Hooker. Richardson I wouldn't touch.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"supafreak84" said: Just a hunch, but if I were a betting man, I'd put money that QB's are the first four picks of this draft. Arizona will trade out of #3 to either Seattle or Oakland.1. Carolina- Stroud
2. Houston- Young
3. Vegas (from AZ)- Anthony Richardson
4. Indy- LevisThem you have Washington at 16, Tampa at 19, and Seattle at 20 who I'd imagine would all seriously consider Hendon Hooker
I think you could be right about the QBs going top 4.But it's pretty clear Carolina hasn't yet decided who they want. I don't typically try to predict what NFL teams are going to do. The teams at the top of the draft are there for a reason. They have a knack for fucking up even the simplest decisions.
Personally, I think taking Stroud over Young is a big mistake and a gift to Houston. And taking Richardson over Levis should result in some sort of red wedding in the front office.
I'd still be scared to take Young. Sure, he has talent and looks great behind all those 5 star offensive lineman and running away from guys from Central Arkansas, but he's short and would not get back on the scale at his Pro Day, which leads me to believe the 204 he weighed at the Combine was what we all thought it was, an inflated number not indicative of the weight he actually carries around on his frame from day to day. He also didn't run a 40, which is a concern to me as I've never thought he was the same kind of athlete that Kyler Murray (who he is routinely compared to) was coming out of Oklahoma. I'd probably take him last out that top four group due to injury concerns and will he be able to stay on the field. I'd rather gamble on Richardson's ability to develop and his physical skillset over worrying about Young's stature and can he sustain over the course of an NFL season.
Here in Florida I've seen several games and I still do not understand the hype. The video above shows the reality. Not under pressure and makes inaccurate throws and ridiculous interceptions. With an average QB the Gators would have been much better. AR is a 4th or 5th rounder but some idiot GM will think different and take him in the 2nd or 3rd.
@"FLVike" said: Here in Florida I've seen several games and I still do not understand the hype. The video above shows the reality. Not under pressure and makes inaccurate throws and ridiculous interceptions. With an average QB the Gators would have been much better. AR is a 4th or 5th rounder but some idiot GM will think different and take him in the 2nd or 3rd.
Richardson is going to go in the 1st. Not saying that's wise, but some team is going to gamble big draft capital on the idea that they can turn is physical tools into an NFL QB. They might, but I think if they play him before he's ready (at least two years from now), they're going to ruin him.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"FLVike" said: Here in Florida I've seen several games and I still do not understand the hype. The video above shows the reality. Not under pressure and makes inaccurate throws and ridiculous interceptions. With an average QB the Gators would have been much better. AR is a 4th or 5th rounder but some idiot GM will think different and take him in the 2nd or 3rd.
Richardson is going to go in the 1st. Not saying that's wise, but some team is going to gamble big draft capital on the idea that they can turn is physical tools into an NFL QB. They might, but I think if they play him before he's ready (at least two years from now), they're going to ruin him.
Sure as the sun rises in the east, teams will over-draft a qb..
Love that Ponder smile and why not? That smile says, yeah I got a wife who will make more money, last longer in professional football, and never take a hit. I'd be smiling too!
@"jargomcfargo" said: Love that Ponder smile and why not? That smile says, yeah I got a wife who will make more money, last longer in professional football, and never take a hit. I'd be smiling too!It sucks Ponder was a bust, but that entire QB draft class was a bust outside of Cam Newton who was the top overall pick and had major concerns himself coming in. Jake Locker, Gabbert, Andy Dalton, and Kaepernick. Just land mines everywhere. I wanted Mike Pouncey that year as we had a major need along the interior of our offensive line. I don't fault Rick for taking a swing at a QB and Ponder had a lot of good qualities coming in, but Bill Musgrave got ahold of him and the rest in history. Rick rebounded though in the second round taking Kyle Rudolph who turned into the greatest TE in team history and if we hypothetically had swapped the draft positions of Ponder and Rudolph, I don't think you'd get the same amount of vinegar relating to the pick.
@"supafreak84" said:Not sure I'd put Kaepernick in the bust camp?@"jargomcfargo" said: Love that Ponder smile and why not? That smile says, yeah I got a wife who will make more money, last longer in professional football, and never take a hit. I'd be smiling too! It sucks Ponder was a bust, but that entire QB draft class was a bust outside of Cam Newton who was the top overall pick and had major concerns himself coming in. Jake Locker, Gabbert, Andy Dalton, and Kaepernick. Just land mines everywhere. I wanted Mike Pouncey that year as we had a major need along the interior of our offensive line. I don't fault Rick for taking a swing at a QB and Ponder had a lot of good qualities coming in, but Bill Musgrave got ahold of him and the rest in history. Rick rebounded though in the second round taking Kyle Rudolph who turned into the greatest TE in team history and if we hypothetically had swapped the draft positions of Ponder and Rudolph, I don't think you'd get the same amount of vinegar relating to the pick.I remember @FSUVike calling "hell no" on Ponder for the longest while b4 the draft. I got nothing against the kid personally of course. And you're exactly right; the vitriol against the guy would be far less if was a 3rd or 4th rd pick. Probably where he should have been drafted.
And I think that smile @jargomcfargo was cause he knew he got to hand-off to #28 in his prime...
@"MaroonBells" said:@"FLVike" said: Here in Florida I've seen several games and I still do not understand the hype. The video above shows the reality. Not under pressure and makes inaccurate throws and ridiculous interceptions. With an average QB the Gators would have been much better. AR is a 4th or 5th rounder but some idiot GM will think different and take him in the 2nd or 3rd.
Richardson is going to go in the 1st. Not saying that's wise, but some team is going to gamble big draft capital on the idea that they can turn is physical tools into an NFL QB. They might, but I think if they play him before he's ready (at least two years from now), they're going to ruin him.
can be said about virtually every damn QB drafted in the last 30 years. I would be curious to see the success rate of all QBs drafted, vs the success rate of QBs drafted and forced into service year one, vs QBs drafted that are allowed to brine for a season or two before handed the keys. IMO the key to a successful NFL QB isnt their college success or their combine stats, its how they are brought along once they are in the pro game.
@"purplefaithful" said:@"supafreak84" said:Not sure I'd put Kaepernick in the bust camp?@"jargomcfargo" said: Love that Ponder smile and why not? That smile says, yeah I got a wife who will make more money, last longer in professional football, and never take a hit. I'd be smiling too! It sucks Ponder was a bust, but that entire QB draft class was a bust outside of Cam Newton who was the top overall pick and had major concerns himself coming in. Jake Locker, Gabbert, Andy Dalton, and Kaepernick. Just land mines everywhere. I wanted Mike Pouncey that year as we had a major need along the interior of our offensive line. I don't fault Rick for taking a swing at a QB and Ponder had a lot of good qualities coming in, but Bill Musgrave got ahold of him and the rest in history. Rick rebounded though in the second round taking Kyle Rudolph who turned into the greatest TE in team history and if we hypothetically had swapped the draft positions of Ponder and Rudolph, I don't think you'd get the same amount of vinegar relating to the pick.I remember @FSUVike calling "hell no" on Ponder for the longest while b4 the draft. I got nothing against the kid personally of course. And you're exactly right; the vitriol against the guy would be far less if was a 3rd or 4th rd pick. Probably where he should have been drafted.
And I think that smile @jargomcfargo was cause he knew he got to hand-off to #28 in his prime...
I would, the kid showed talent and potential in terms of tools, but he became to dependent on the read option with emphasis on the run part, the league took off the red jersey allowing him to be hit like a RB when QBs ran that play and he got dinged, he then flaked out and lost a ton of weight, making him a shadow of his former self and in a few short years went from a player that teams potentially feared ( or coveted ) to a player that was a non factor and eventually un-touchable... pretty much a bust. His passing game never really scared me, but he had the arm to make it lethal if he would have focused on that part of his game. but arm talent isnt the rare trait for QBs, its learning how to use that arm is what separates the elite from the the next jamarcus russell.
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