NFL Draft Talk
Thought we could make a general draft discussion thread with the Combine approaching. Just a few pre combine thoughts I had while digging in on some early evaluations;
- There could be as many as 7 cornerbacks going in the 1st round. While I don't see any elite, Patrick Surtain type's, the position is deep and talented. I'd be pretty upset if the Vikings took a cornerback, but there will be some talented corners still on the board when our pick comes up.
- I absolutely love this group of linebackers. Drew Sanders, Noah Sewell, and the Simpson kid from Clemson all look like really good prospects who offer some scheme flexibility. Hicks won't be back for us and they still have a decision to make on Kendricks. It's possible all 3 of these guys are still on the board at #23 and would be really good picks.
- I've got Jalin Hyatt as my #1 WR in this class. He would be an absolute home run pick for us and give us a deep threat dimension this offense is sorely lacking. I'm going to be very curious how teams separate Johnston, Addison, Zay Flowers, and Smith-Njigba after that.
- Not a great crop of defensive lineman. I think we can find some scheme specific bodies with our mid round picks but otherwise need to be active in free agency. We are going to continue running this crap 3-4 and IMO all three down lineman positions need to be upgraded. A couple guys I'll be watching at the combine are Ika the nose tackle from Baylor (LSU transfer), Gervon Baxter from Florida, and Keeanu Benton from Wisconsin. All bigger bodies that fit our scheme and to me defensive line is the biggest position of need on this roster.
- My early overrated list: Tyree Wilson, Myles Murphy, Bryan Bresee, and Paris Johnson.
- I'd be shocked to see the Vikings draft a QB. If we trade down and add more picks, then taking someone like Hendon Hooker and stashing him away for a year makes a lot of sense. I think it's far more likely we add a Sam Darnold in free agency or trade for someone like Zac Wilson on the low end.
@"Kentis" said: Spielman’s pick is Bryce Young, could there be larger red flag then that!?Small guys like Kyler Murray and Russell Wilson rely on pocket awareness, elusiveness and escapability. Young doesn't have those qualities imo and will be another Bama guy who doesn't live up to the hype.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"supafreak84" said: https://walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/How-Teams-Currently-View-the-Jalen-Carter-SituationSome teams eliminating him from their draft boards. I wonder if he would drop to the Vikings pick, and if so, what the Vikings would do. He fits our biggest position of need and is the almost the consensus top player in the draft. We might be faced with Warren Sapp part deaux, whom we passed on1. What he did was what about any kid would do in that situation. Lie to CYA, how he's acted since then I dont know, but what kid with a fast car didnt run it once in a while? Sometimes those things dont end well. He is facing misdemeanor charges, as long as he shows contrition and doesnt exhibit that "above the law entitlement" that we see from some high profile athletes... you run that damn card to the podium yourself, screw the phone system, I want to see Zygi sprinting through the throngs of other teams fans waving a selection card.2. No way we see him fall that far, unless there is more to this story than I am aware of at this time, he still goes top 10, likely top 3. I am guessing any rumors of him getting dropped from boards is to try and create a situation where GMs or other start to over think a selection and get talked out of making the smart choice.
Some teams reportedly have dropped him off their boards since there were already some character/work ethic questions prior to this incident. What his role was will also determine whether more teams drop him from their boards. I'd be a little disturbed if he was racing, saw the crash occur, then basically left the scene while they were dying in their vehicle to save his draft stock. So ultimately his draft stock is still being determined, but if he fell to the Vikings spot...I'd be interested to see what they'd do considering talent wise he is arguably the best player in the draft and happens to fit our biggest need.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"supafreak84" said: Some early combine stuff from GBN;DT Bresee runs well … We are underway in Indianapolis where the first group of defensive linemen are running their 40s. And Clemson DT Brian Bresee got it off to a nice start as he ran a 4.93 40 with a very quick 1.71 10-yard split. FSU DT Gervan Dexter also ran a 5-flat but wasn’t as quick off the mark with a 1.81 split. Meanwhile, Calijah Kancey also ran real well with a 4.78 40 with a 1.64 split. Of concern with Kancey who actually measured in at 6-1, an inch more than expected, but he has very short (barely 30.5-inches) arms.Some of the times were insane. DT Adebawore at 6-2, 282, ran 4.49. A DT that runs 4.49. Edge Nolan Smith ran 4.39. Byron Young at 6-2, 250 ran a 4.43. Makes you wonder, are the clocks messed up or do these guys just keep getting bigger, stronger and faster with no end in sight.@"MaroonBells" said:Nolan Smith is interesting. Highly ranked coming out of high school and had to sit and pay his dues behind all those great players at Georgia last year. This was supposed to be his year to shine but missed most of the season with a pectoral tear. If for whatever reason we move on from Zadarius, he probably enters the conversation for us at #23@"supafreak84" said: Some early combine stuff from GBN;DT Bresee runs well … We are underway in Indianapolis where the first group of defensive linemen are running their 40s. And Clemson DT Brian Bresee got it off to a nice start as he ran a 4.93 40 with a very quick 1.71 10-yard split. FSU DT Gervan Dexter also ran a 5-flat but wasn’t as quick off the mark with a 1.81 split. Meanwhile, Calijah Kancey also ran real well with a 4.78 40 with a 1.64 split. Of concern with Kancey who actually measured in at 6-1, an inch more than expected, but he has very short (barely 30.5-inches) arms.Some of the times were insane. DT Adebawore at 6-2, 282, ran 4.49. A DT that runs 4.49. Edge Nolan Smith ran 4.39. Byron Young at 6-2, 250 ran a 4.43. Makes you wonder, are the clocks messed up or do these guys just keep getting bigger, stronger and faster with no end in sight.
NFL Draft insider says Minnesota Vikings doing significant homework on 2023 QB class (msn.com)
Jeremiah reporting the Vikings are really digging into this group of QB's. I think Geoff was saying the same prior to the Combine. We know they've met with Richardson already. I'm confident all four of the top QB's will go in the top 10 and that would be a steep price tag to move all the way up from #23
@"supafreak84" said: NFL Draft insider says Minnesota Vikings doing significant homework on 2023 QB class (msn.com)Jeremiah reporting the Vikings are really digging into this group of QB's. I think Geoff was saying the same prior to the Combine. We know they've met with Richardson already. I'm confident all four of the top QB's will go in the top 10 and that would be a steep price tag to move all the way up from #23
Met with Levis too. Probably just due diligence. The cost is too high for the top three at least. But I think it's important to get a gauge on how these guys interview when you know you're probably going to be interviewing a dozen or more in the next few years. Doesn't mean they won't draft one this year though. But it's gonna have to be a huge move (future 1sts, Hunter, etc) and it's hard to see that happening.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"supafreak84" said: NFL Draft insider says Minnesota Vikings doing significant homework on 2023 QB class (msn.com)Jeremiah reporting the Vikings are really digging into this group of QB's. I think Geoff was saying the same prior to the Combine. We know they've met with Richardson already. I'm confident all four of the top QB's will go in the top 10 and that would be a steep price tag to move all the way up from #23
Met with Levis too. Probably just due diligence. The cost is too high for the top three at least. But I think it's important to get a gauge on how these guys interview when you know you're probably going to be interviewing a dozen or more in the next few years. Doesn't mean they won't draft one this year though. But it's gonna have to be a huge move (future 1sts, Hunter, etc) and it's hard to see that happening.
It's being reported the cost for the Bears to move off the first pick and drop outside of the top five would cost a team this years1st and 2nd round picks, along with first round picks in the 2024 and 2025. I'd imagine the cost for the Vikings to jump into the top 10 for a quarterback would be something similar.
Hyatt 4.41 on his first 40. Zay Flowers 4.42
Addison 4.55 and 4.49
KOC up in the booth with DJ at the Combine talking about evaluations
@"supafreak84" said: Addison 4.55 and 4.49When I watched Addison, he just didn't look as fast as he should have...I think the 4.55 confirms that. At his size, I think people are thinking Garrett Wilson, but he's just not that fast.
@"MaroonBells" said:I agree. I didn't see breakaway speed and athleticism when I watched him on tape and he isn't the biggest guy. DJ compared him to Jahan Dotson coming out last year and thinks he is a mid-first round pick in this draft. He didn't blow it up for USC as predicted transferring over from Pitt. I've got him behind Hyatt, Smith Njigba, Johnston, and Zay Flowers.@"supafreak84" said: Addison 4.55 and 4.49 When I watched Addison, he just didn't look as fast as he should have...I think the 4.55 confirms that. At his size, I think people are thinking Garrett Wilson, but he's just not that fast.
Richardson just broke the Combine record for vertical jump by a QB. 40.5" at 244 pounds.
He might end up being the number 1 overall pick in this draft by the time this is all said and done. Not that I think he should be, but this is starting to trend in that direction
Richardson just ran a 4.44/40! Damn
@"supafreak84" said: Richardson just ran a 4.44/40! Damn
He definitely cemented his selection in the top 5 in my opinion. Bryce Young measuring smaller than Kyler Murray will hurt his positioning. I could see him falling out of the top 10. Darnell Washington just ran a 4.65 at just under 6'7". If all the good receivers were gone at 23, I would have no problem taking him with our 1st assuming we are done with the ISJ experiment. He would be huge in our running game and a compliment to TJ in the passing game. He's a freak.
@"TBro" said:@"supafreak84" said: Richardson just ran a 4.44/40! Damn
He definitely cemented his selection in the top 5 in my opinion. Bryce Young measuring smaller than Kyler Murray will hurt his positioning. I could see him falling out of the top 10. Darnell Washington just ran a 4.65 at just under 6'7". If all the good receivers were gone at 23, I would have no problem taking him with our 1st assuming we are done with the ISJ experiment. He would be huge in our running game and a compliment to TJ in the passing game. He's a freak.
Bryce Young came in at 5'10" and 204 pounds, and you know that's a beefed up 204 pounds specifically to alleviate some of his size concerns. I'm guessing normal Bryce probably plays at least ten pounds lighter on game days. I could not under any circumstances take a guy that small in the top 10. I look at it this way, if Will Levis played for Alabama and Bryce Young played for Kentucky, Levis would be the unquestioned top overall pick in the draft and Young would essentially be Seneca Wallace.Washington is impressive. I'm happy the Vikings traded for Hockenson, but this is the best collective TE group in over a decade according to Jeremiah and I go back to wondering if making the trade was wisest decision considering we could have likely drafted a very productive TE this year and had him on a rookie contract. Food for thought considering our cap situation and that we now need to extend Hockenson on a big money deal along with Jefferson.
@"supafreak84" said:@"TBro" said:@"supafreak84" said: Richardson just ran a 4.44/40! Damn
He definitely cemented his selection in the top 5 in my opinion. Bryce Young measuring smaller than Kyler Murray will hurt his positioning. I could see him falling out of the top 10. Darnell Washington just ran a 4.65 at just under 6'7". If all the good receivers were gone at 23, I would have no problem taking him with our 1st assuming we are done with the ISJ experiment. He would be huge in our running game and a compliment to TJ in the passing game. He's a freak.
Bryce Young came in at 5'10" and 204 pounds, and you know that's a beefed up 204 pounds specifically to alleviate some of his size concerns. I'm guessing normal Bryce probably plays at least ten pounds lighter on game days. I could not under any circumstances take a guy that small in the top 10. I look at it this way, if Will Levis played for Alabama and Bryce Young played for Kentucky, Levis would be the unquestioned top overall pick in the draft and Young would essentially be Seneca Wallace.Washington is impressive. I'm happy the Vikings traded for Hockenson, but this is the best collective TE group in over a decade according to Jeremiah and I go back to wondering if making the trade was wisest decision considering we could have likely drafted a very productive TE this year and had him on a rookie contract. Food for thought considering our cap situation and that we now need to extend Hockenson on a big money deal along with Jefferson.
Agreed. I like Bryce Young. He was a great College QB but I have concerns that his size will be an issue because he does have a smallish build to go along with his 5'10" frame. He will have to go to an offense that moves the pocket a lot so he can find space to create with his legs. That style of QB comes with Risk. Stroud, Levis, and Richardson, especially with what he did today are all ahead of Young on my list.
I understand your point on Hockenson, but he hasn't always been able to stay healthy so adding another TE, especially one like Washington who also excels in the Run Game, would not be a bad strategy assuming ISJ hits free agency. Smith-Njigba looked fantastic on his drills today. Crisp Routes and caught everything thrown his way.
@"supafreak84" said:@"TBro" said:@"supafreak84" said: Richardson just ran a 4.44/40! Damn
He definitely cemented his selection in the top 5 in my opinion. Bryce Young measuring smaller than Kyler Murray will hurt his positioning. I could see him falling out of the top 10. Darnell Washington just ran a 4.65 at just under 6'7". If all the good receivers were gone at 23, I would have no problem taking him with our 1st assuming we are done with the ISJ experiment. He would be huge in our running game and a compliment to TJ in the passing game. He's a freak.
Bryce Young came in at 5'10" and 204 pounds, and you know that's a beefed up 204 pounds specifically to alleviate some of his size concerns. I'm guessing normal Bryce probably plays at least ten pounds lighter on game days. I could not under any circumstances take a guy that small in the top 10. I look at it this way, if Will Levis played for Alabama and Bryce Young played for Kentucky, Levis would be the unquestioned top overall pick in the draft and Young would essentially be Seneca Wallace.Washington is impressive. I'm happy the Vikings traded for Hockenson, but this is the best collective TE group in over a decade according to Jeremiah and I go back to wondering if making the trade was wisest decision considering we could have likely drafted a very productive TE this year and had him on a rookie contract. Food for thought considering our cap situation and that we now need to extend Hockenson on a big money deal along with Jefferson.
Agree with you on Levis and Young, but not on the TE. Trading for Hock was a good move, and a necessary one after ISJ went down. And anyone who drafts a TE in the 1st round deserves what they get.
Tyjae Spears has been my favorite value back since the Senior Bowl. After the Vikings trade down a couple times to collect a few day-two picks, he would be a nice target in rounds 3-4, assuming we lose one of Cook or Mattison.
Really nice speed, moves well laterally, catches the ball with his hands and can actually run a route.
Tulane RB Tyjae Spears informed the media that he has met with the #Vikings at the Combine.
— vikesinsider (@vikesinsider) March 4, 2023
Spears is EXPLOSIVE 🔥 pic.twitter.com/InVt0GHutz
I think I think this --
Cook stays a Viking and Richardson is going to be a top 5 pick.
As always, the price to move for a top qb is steep. But if they (KAM/KOC) think they see someone in the top 12 they feel strongly about? Then I wouldnt be opposed to that move. Maybe they even move for Hooker at some point.
So far I trust this front office/coaching staff to have more QB acumen than the RS regime did.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"supafreak84" said:@"TBro" said:@"supafreak84" said: Richardson just ran a 4.44/40! Damn
He definitely cemented his selection in the top 5 in my opinion. Bryce Young measuring smaller than Kyler Murray will hurt his positioning. I could see him falling out of the top 10. Darnell Washington just ran a 4.65 at just under 6'7". If all the good receivers were gone at 23, I would have no problem taking him with our 1st assuming we are done with the ISJ experiment. He would be huge in our running game and a compliment to TJ in the passing game. He's a freak.
Bryce Young came in at 5'10" and 204 pounds, and you know that's a beefed up 204 pounds specifically to alleviate some of his size concerns. I'm guessing normal Bryce probably plays at least ten pounds lighter on game days. I could not under any circumstances take a guy that small in the top 10. I look at it this way, if Will Levis played for Alabama and Bryce Young played for Kentucky, Levis would be the unquestioned top overall pick in the draft and Young would essentially be Seneca Wallace.Washington is impressive. I'm happy the Vikings traded for Hockenson, but this is the best collective TE group in over a decade according to Jeremiah and I go back to wondering if making the trade was wisest decision considering we could have likely drafted a very productive TE this year and had him on a rookie contract. Food for thought considering our cap situation and that we now need to extend Hockenson on a big money deal along with Jefferson.
Agree with you on Levis and Young, but not on the TE. Trading for Hock was a good move, and a necessary one after ISJ went down. And anyone who drafts a TE in the 1st round deserves what they get.
It's a tough one because I do really like Hockenson and what he was able to bring to our offense down the stretch, but in hindsight would things have gone any differently last season if we had Mundt starting as far as how far we went? I would say no, and we would have lost to the Giants regardless. The problem is now we have to pay Hockenson, and the Lions traded him specifically because they didn't want to have to pay him and invest big money on that position. Paying Hockenson is now going to coincide with having to pay Jefferson, Cousins, Hunter, and Darrisaw shortly down the road and our cap is going to continue to be tapped out. With the quality and depth at the TE position in this draft, it might have been wiser to hold tight (no pun intended) and use one of our top picks at that position and have that player on a rookie contract moving forward. It's about the allocation of dollars and I'm not so sure how we played this was ultimately the best option.I still contend that Michael Mayer is probably the best TE I've ever seen at the college level. He won't wow you athletically like a Kellen Winslow Jr or Vernon Davis, but the guy is just different and has been a beast since his freshman year. Kincaid, Washington and Musgrove are all upper-level prospects. Laporta and the Purdue kid also showed well.
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