The offensive line, no longer offensive
What the experts do not seem to understand, is the Viking offense will be better in2017 simply by the change of philosophy. The biggest reason, as good as Peterson was, there will no longer be a nine man-front on the line doing a simple run blitz to quarterback. Now, defensives have to cover the whole field ,not just Peterson.
With that being said, all the tackles have to do is give Bradford 1 second longer to execute the play. Reiff and Remmers will be able to give that 1 second with no 9-man front. Plus, the Vikings will not be telegraphing their plays the way they did with Peterson.
This is going to be the year we have been waiting for our entire lives.
I think it will be really, really interesting to see how Shurmur uses all these pieces. Hoping the D can get back to 2015 form and the offense to around 24 pts a game avg.
that should get this franchise to double-digits in the win column and a chance for a berth in a home-town SB.
I want to believe the OLine is improved, but I want to see it on the field first before I believe it. We did get 2 new right tackles, but they were largely not pursued by their former teams. Berger is old as the hills, but like the Elfien pick. Boone is largely unproven to me. He looked very over-0matched last season at times. He sure talked like an All-Pro, but his nasty streak seemed more confined to his comments to the press who dogged a bad OLine last year, as opposed to him truly taking charge on the field.
Prove it guys!
I think our OLine is going to play average, and people are going to wonder how all of our skill position players came out of nowhere at the same time.
I want to hope for the best with the new tackles but as Tom said lets wait and see the product on the field. I'm still thinking offensive linemen will be a pretty high priorty in next years draft.
@"Purplemachine" said: I want to hope for the best with the new tackles but as Tom said lets wait and see the product on the field. I'm still thinking offensive linemen will be a pretty high priorty in next years draft.Agree about next year's draft. We must not have been in love with most of this year's top OL because a couple fell into the early second (Cam Robison and the goodball who carried his baby around like a load of bread) and I don't think we even thought about moving up for one of them over Cook. Then two top Tackles, who also played Guard/versatility went with the last two picks of the second round on other team move-ups - Dawkins and then Moton.
I have to admit I really wanted Dawkins and I really thought we would be grabbing at least 2 OT's and a Guard. I was way off on what I thought we needed and what we did because I thought Easton looked fine at Center. So even Elflein in the 3rd surprised me.
After watching Kalil/Load the last few years and then the steaming pile all of last year it is clear that the demand far outmatched the supply of even decent Tackle play (both Left and Right). The fact that Detroit made the inconsistent Taylor the highest paid RT was surprising to me. Then what the Panthers paid for Kalil was shocking and we were actually looking at resigning him for decent money as well - which shows the lack of depth.
We are still very thin at the Tackle positions. Hill is a complete unknown, Sirles is a project that I think they are switching to Guard, Clemmings, yikes and darn if I know. Sure Reiff and Remmers bring average to slightly above average play but we are going to really need both to stay healthy.
One thing I noticed is the team went after OL, both in the draft & in free agency, who have a history of durability. Availabllity is a huge asset & shouldn't be overlooked.
I agree. The thing is who and when does Rick value a player enough to pull the trigger to select him. I thought we got some fine players this year to fill holes at a couple spots. But I think we really need to do a "Dallas" and pay serious attention to our o-line sooner rather than later.
@"Kentis" said: One thing I noticed is the team went after OL, both in the draft & in free agency, who have a history of durability. Availabllity is a huge asset & shouldn't be overlooked.Nice angle Kentis. I agree. And for us availability has been the biggest problem we have had. Never mind whether or not our OL have been worth a shit.... They weren't even on the field to find out!
I am also cautiously optimistic. Is there really a way that the O-line can do worse than they did last year??? My Lord that was baddddd...
I will say this--a lot of other teams had injuries to their lines this year and somehow managed to plug in guys to get the job done....Green Bay comes to mind....and so I'd say that if we still bomb out I have to be looking at Sparano. Marginal improvement is less than fine, and this guy needs to get the line we have to at least league average. Even that would be a vast improvement!
@"Purplemachine" said: I agree. The thing is who and when does Rick value a player enough to pull the trigger to select him. I thought we got some fine players this year to fill holes at a couple spots. But I think we really need to do a "Dallas" and pay serious attention to our o-line sooner rather than later.Yea, it is really hard to gauge the best approach in building an OL. The league is filled with late round and even UDFA starting OL.
I am not checking into details so going by memory but Dallas has a at least 3 starting OL that they picked in the first 2 rounds.
The Raiders really went the free agent route to start their rebuild about 5 years ago. They had one of the worst offenses in the NFL even in Carr's first couple years (not pointing fingers because we still do). The Raiders went out and signed Penn, a guy from KC I think then 2 years ago spent top money on Osemele and in the Carr draft grabbed Gabe Jackson (I think in the third round and they just extended to a big deal).
So Dallas did more top round draft picks while the Raiders did more free agent approach. IMO - these are the two best OL in football. When you look around at all the other team's OL they are littered with a complete mix of a top round guy, a late round guy, a free agent, and an UDFA - all over.
It does seem a little easier to find (draft,FA, UDFA) an above average Guard and Center as compared to either Tackle. IMO - there are about 3 or 4 Top LT's and then the rest are average or below - huge gap in play. RT is somewhat similar but quite as bad.
The fact that we went out and bought two shiny new Tackles is great - key being both have been healthy and have played slightly above average. There are not many consistently healthy slightly above average Tackle's in the NFL. That all said, we still need depth. I have no idea how Hill (LT) or Clemmings (RT) will look as backups but they might be key.
We all want all-pro's at every position but it can't happen. I think we are taking the right approach to our OL rebuild. Just because, a novice fan drafter like me really wanted Dawkins (T/G) from Temple, does not mean our staff/Spelly thought he was any good at all. This draft was said to be very weak along the OL and from the looks of our needs vs what we drafted It looks like our brass agreed.
A healthy O-line is the key to improvement. Just being able to generate some type of chemistry with the guy next to you can go a long ways. When you're constantly moving parts around (especially in-game) you're just asking for missed assignments and mass confusion. Health protects against that.
The pessimist in me still thinks the line struggles this upcoming season. It will take some time for them to find their groove with the new faces around. I think Reiff will be surprise some people and have a bigger impact on the left side than most think, which indirectly helps Boone. Overall I think the left side of the line will be above average. The issues begin at center and move to the right. In limited playing time last year I didn't see a ton to convince me that Easton is a starting center. Elflein has the talent but needs to adjust to NFL life. Although the goal is to move Berger to RG everything is thrown for a loop if he needs to rotate back to the center spot. If Berger moves back to center RG becomes a black hole for the time being unless someone proves themselves in camp. Remmers return to RT should be positive but I am skeptical he would be as effective as he was in 2015 without a strong RG next to him.
@"NFL Draft Guru" said: A healthy O-line is the key to improvement. Just being able to generate some type of chemistry with the guy next to you can go a long ways. When you're constantly moving parts around (especially in-game) you're just asking for missed assignments and mass confusion. Health protects against that.The pessimist in me still thinks the line struggles this upcoming season. It will take some time for them to find their groove with the new faces around. I think Reiff will be surprise some people and have a bigger impact on the left side than most think, which indirectly helps Boone. Overall I think the left side of the line will be above average. The issues begin at center and move to the right. In limited playing time last year I didn't see a ton to convince me that Easton is a starting center. Elflein has the talent but needs to adjust to NFL life. Although the goal is to move Berger to RG everything is thrown for a loop if he needs to rotate back to the center spot. If Berger moves back to center RG becomes a black hole for the time being unless someone proves themselves in camp. Remmers return to RT should be positive but I am skeptical he would be as effective as he was in 2015 without a strong RG next to him.
Berger goes back to center... Sirles cements himself as the starting RG for the next 8 years. booyah!
I've been down on the OL for so long I find it almost impossible to get excited before seeing the proof. I hope I am proven wrong but I am not real thrilled with outlook. May be better but how much remains to be seen.
@"NFL Draft Guru" said: A healthy O-line is the key to improvement. Just being able to generate some type of chemistry with the guy next to you can go a long ways. When you're constantly moving parts around (especially in-game) you're just asking for missed assignments and mass confusion. Health protects against that.The pessimist in me still thinks the line struggles this upcoming season. It will take some time for them to find their groove with the new faces around. I think Reiff will be surprise some people and have a bigger impact on the left side than most think, which indirectly helps Boone. Overall I think the left side of the line will be above average. The issues begin at center and move to the right. In limited playing time last year I didn't see a ton to convince me that Easton is a starting center. Elflein has the talent but needs to adjust to NFL life. Although the goal is to move Berger to RG everything is thrown for a loop if he needs to rotate back to the center spot. If Berger moves back to center RG becomes a black hole for the time being unless someone proves themselves in camp. Remmers return to RT should be positive but I am skeptical he would be as effective as he was in 2015 without a strong RG next to him.
We need to be honest about this line's potential: it isn't talented. Or athletic. Its a bunch of average Joes'. That SHOULD be better than last year if they stay healthy. I think the line will struggle also. I think Reiff will get exposed out there because he's really a RT in the NFL, I disagree with you there.
Boone seems to think so far this year they are tougher and nastier than since he got here. I guess we'll see if that's enough.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"NFL Draft Guru" said: A healthy O-line is the key to improvement. Just being able to generate some type of chemistry with the guy next to you can go a long ways. When you're constantly moving parts around (especially in-game) you're just asking for missed assignments and mass confusion. Health protects against that.The pessimist in me still thinks the line struggles this upcoming season. It will take some time for them to find their groove with the new faces around. I think Reiff will be surprise some people and have a bigger impact on the left side than most think, which indirectly helps Boone. Overall I think the left side of the line will be above average. The issues begin at center and move to the right. In limited playing time last year I didn't see a ton to convince me that Easton is a starting center. Elflein has the talent but needs to adjust to NFL life. Although the goal is to move Berger to RG everything is thrown for a loop if he needs to rotate back to the center spot. If Berger moves back to center RG becomes a black hole for the time being unless someone proves themselves in camp. Remmers return to RT should be positive but I am skeptical he would be as effective as he was in 2015 without a strong RG next to him.
Berger goes back to center... Sirles cements himself as the starting RG for the next 8 years. booyah!
I think Sirles has the best shot of any of the backups to get some starts. Who is he competing with Kerin, Beavers, Isodara and then the loser of the Easton/Elflein battle? The OL was such a mess it was hard to gauge any player. They have to work in such unison so with so many injuries it was just like watching unsyncronized swimming.I didn't think Sirles played that bad at either position he played - RT/RG. But I also give Boone a little leeway as well with hsi surrounds. I thought he was average but it is difficult to hold down the fort when those around you are falling down. The shear number of injuries is just too overwhelming for me to make that many conclusions going into this year.
But here are a few - Clemmings should never play LT again. Put him back at RT throughout camp/preseason and see if he can rebound. It is only year 3 for him and OL take more time to develop then many other positions.
Kerin battled Easton last preseason for the backup Center spot and lost. He was switched over to Guard. After time on our PS he is now on the bubble.
Easton has only been played at Center, correct? He did spend that one preseason, before our trade, with Sparano in SF. But if he loses out to Elflein can he play Guard?
Elflein is said to have the versatility to play either Guard position and Center - but a rookie so who knows?
Boone - is in his last year of his contract I think.
Hill (LT), we signed off a PS (Carolina??) late last year so need to see a lot of him at LT throughout preseason.
Beavers, and I said this during last preseason, was probably the worst OL prospect I had seen. Completely lost, overpowered, and outhustled. That was my read even before he was cut. But he is another year older and still eligible for the PS alonge with Isadora.
I think we are going to looking extremely closely at the late team cut waiver wires at all OL positions, as we should.
What kind of line is Tony going to give us this year? Over achievers or Under achievers?
I would think this is a make or break year for Tony. He gave us a few head scratchers last year.
I agree with Guru the right side is going to be the biggest concern.
@"Norse" said: What kind of line is Tony going to give us this year? Over achievers or Under achievers? I would think this is a make or break year for Tony. He gave us a few head scratchers last year. I agree with Guru the right side is going to be the biggest concern.well considering what he had to work with... i would have been happy for chicken salad.
@"JimmyinSD" said:IDK - Sparano's first year was obviously crap and the amount of injuries was out-of-hand but I think he had a say in some decisions that didn't work out - for example, the Beavers pick in the 4th round. The guy was horrible, was cut (which doesn't happen often for a 4th rounder), no other team claimed him so we put him back on our PS.@"Norse" said: What kind of line is Tony going to give us this year? Over achievers or Under achievers? I would think this is a make or break year for Tony. He gave us a few head scratchers last year. I agree with Guru the right side is going to be the biggest concern. well considering what he had to work with... i would have been happy for chicken salad.This year's draft stamp is of course Elflein and Isadora.
I would also think that Sparano has some say in our free agency periods the last two years and last year Smith at RT was a flop after Load couldn't get back. This year his stamp is on Reiff and Remmers.
Lastly, back to last year the flipping of Fusco back from LG to RG did not pan out even though I thought it would. Turned-out Fusco was never the same after his injury 3 years ago.
But these are all decisions that Sparano had a say in and even beyond the amount of injuries his decision-making/scheme was horrible last year.
He needs to develop an average OL asap.
I agree with Norse - make or break for Tony
We brought Clancy Barone in to take over as the team’s tight ends coach, but he was the offensive line coach for the Bronco's.
I would settle for an "average" OL this year. That would be a massive improvement over last year.
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