Vikings are waiving Reagor

@"supafreak84" said:

@"mblack" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"mblack" said: John Carlson, Mike Wallace, Sam Bradford, Daniel Carlson, Kaare V, Josh Freeman etc. All GMs made good and bad descisions. 

I think we can throw Sam Bradford out of that mix. When you are a conference favorite and lose your starting quarterback to a catastrophic leg injury 10 days before the regular season starts...you do what you have to do, and Bradford was a good player for us until his knee gave out. There were no better options and holding that move as a negative against Spieman is ridiculous 

Nope you cant make excuses why a pick was made or draft was made. 1. Rick was GM when Daniel Carlson was cut 2. Rick gave up too much for Bradford who ended up being wait for it …. injured and nit justifying all the picks. 

This is what was said at the time

The Vikings gave up a first-round pick in 2017 and a fourth-round pick in 2018 that can become a third- or second-rounder based on conditions -- a massive price to pay for what could amount to one season of work.

Again i am not blaming Rick. i am just saying all GMs have good and bad moves.

It's not an excuse, but what was the alternative? What would you have preferred him to do in that situation? 

@"greediron" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"mblack" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"mblack" said: John Carlson, Mike Wallace, Sam Bradford, Daniel Carlson, Kaare V, Josh Freeman etc. All GMs made good and bad descisions. 

I think we can throw Sam Bradford out of that mix. When you are a conference favorite and lose your starting quarterback to a catastrophic leg injury 10 days before the regular season starts...you do what you have to do, and Bradford was a good player for us until his knee gave out. There were no better options and holding that move as a negative against Spieman is ridiculous 

Nope you cant make excuses why a pick was made or draft was made. 1. Rick was GM when Daniel Carlson was cut 2. Rick gave up too much for Bradford who ended up being wait for it …. injured and nit justifying all the picks. 

This is what was said at the time

The Vikings gave up a first-round pick in 2017 and a fourth-round pick in 2018 that can become a third- or second-rounder based on conditions -- a massive price to pay for what could amount to one season of work.

Again i am not blaming Rick. i am just saying all GMs have good and bad moves.

It's not an excuse, but what was the alternative? What would you have preferred him to do in that situation? 

Draft a backup rather than rely on Shaun Hill?  Rick really could have tried drafting more than one QB.  He ended up signing the poster boy of drafting a backup QB in Cousins.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"mblack" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"mblack" said: John Carlson, Mike Wallace, Sam Bradford, Daniel Carlson, Kaare V, Josh Freeman etc. All GMs made good and bad descisions. 

I think we can throw Sam Bradford out of that mix. When you are a conference favorite and lose your starting quarterback to a catastrophic leg injury 10 days before the regular season starts...you do what you have to do, and Bradford was a good player for us until his knee gave out. There were no better options and holding that move as a negative against Spieman is ridiculous 

Nope you cant make excuses why a pick was made or draft was made. 1. Rick was GM when Daniel Carlson was cut 2. Rick gave up too much for Bradford who ended up being wait for it …. injured and nit justifying all the picks. 

This is what was said at the time

The Vikings gave up a first-round pick in 2017 and a fourth-round pick in 2018 that can become a third- or second-rounder based on conditions -- a massive price to pay for what could amount to one season of work.

Again i am not blaming Rick. i am just saying all GMs have good and bad moves.

It's not an excuse, but what was the alternative? What would you have preferred him to do in that situation? 

Draft a backup rather than rely on Shaun Hill?  Rick really could have tried drafting more than one QB.  He ended up signing the poster boy of drafting a backup QB in Cousins.

One of my biggest gripes with Rick was he never took enough shots at QB in the draft. However the two backups that year were Hill and Taylor Heinike, who has shown to be a capable backup QB. The league is littered with Shaun Hill's and Heinike's and very few can sustain their starter being out for an extended period of time. I just don't think you can dump on Rick under the circumstances for the Bradford trade 

Another thing about Bradford is he was considered during that time one of the most accurate quarterbacks with a strong arm.  No mobility at all, but he could really sling the football.

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"mblack" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"mblack" said: John Carlson, Mike Wallace, Sam Bradford, Daniel Carlson, Kaare V, Josh Freeman etc. All GMs made good and bad descisions. 

I think we can throw Sam Bradford out of that mix. When you are a conference favorite and lose your starting quarterback to a catastrophic leg injury 10 days before the regular season starts...you do what you have to do, and Bradford was a good player for us until his knee gave out. There were no better options and holding that move as a negative against Spieman is ridiculous 

Nope you cant make excuses why a pick was made or draft was made. 1. Rick was GM when Daniel Carlson was cut 2. Rick gave up too much for Bradford who ended up being wait for it …. injured and nit justifying all the picks. 

This is what was said at the time

The Vikings gave up a first-round pick in 2017 and a fourth-round pick in 2018 that can become a third- or second-rounder based on conditions -- a massive price to pay for what could amount to one season of work.

Again i am not blaming Rick. i am just saying all GMs have good and bad moves.

It's not an excuse, but what was the alternative? What would you have preferred him to do in that situation? 

Draft a backup rather than rely on Shaun Hill?  Rick really could have tried drafting more than one QB.  He ended up signing the poster boy of drafting a backup QB in Cousins.

One of my biggest gripes with Rick was he never took enough shots at QB in the draft. However the two backups that year were Hill and Taylor Heinike, who has shown to be a capable backup QB. The league is littered with Shaun Hill's and Heinike's and very few can sustain their starter being out for an extended period of time. I just don't think you can dump on Rick under the circumstances for the Bradford trade 

I agree, I think at the time most fans were happy with the Bradford deal. Spielman didn't really have many options and with the team they had they needed a starting caliber QB.

@"comet52" said: I'd have tanked it and drafted Mahomes the next spring.  When Ted went down with such a brutal injury my first thought was tank the season and draft his successor.

Now before anyone cries it would be impossible to pull that off, I have been told over and over around here what a great g.m. Rick was.  Surely a great g.m. could have accomplished that, instead of giving up the farm for journeyman Sam Bradford and his bum knees, right?  

Unfortunately, short-term short-sighted thinking helmed the Longship for many years, leading to so many missed opportunities on the personnel front.  Maybe KAM is finally going to change that, we'll see.

For instance, do you want us to tank this season for what should be a great QB class?

@"minny65" said:

@"comet52" said: I'd have tanked it and drafted Mahomes the next spring.  When Ted went down with such a brutal injury my first thought was tank the season and draft his successor.

Now before anyone cries it would be impossible to pull that off, I have been told over and over around here what a great g.m. Rick was.  Surely a great g.m. could have accomplished that, instead of giving up the farm for journeyman Sam Bradford and his bum knees, right?  

Unfortunately, short-term short-sighted thinking helmed the Longship for many years, leading to so many missed opportunities on the personnel front.  Maybe KAM is finally going to change that, we'll see.

Is that what you stated at the time or is that 20/20?

For instance, do you want us to tank this season for what should be a great QB class?

@"minny65" said:

@"comet52" said: I'd have tanked it and drafted Mahomes the next spring.  When Ted went down with such a brutal injury my first thought was tank the season and draft his successor.

Now before anyone cries it would be impossible to pull that off, I have been told over and over around here what a great g.m. Rick was.  Surely a great g.m. could have accomplished that, instead of giving up the farm for journeyman Sam Bradford and his bum knees, right?  

Unfortunately, short-term short-sighted thinking helmed the Longship for many years, leading to so many missed opportunities on the personnel front.  Maybe KAM is finally going to change that, we'll see.

Is that what you stated at the time or is that 20/20?

For instance, do you want us to tank this season for what should be a great QB class?

Just another thought on Spielman and his lack of rolling the dice on quarterbacks. I think missing out on Ponder made him gun shy for a bit (understandably), then there was so much scrutiny surrounding the Cousins signing from the amount of guaranteed money to his stigma of never being able to win the big game, that he wanted to avoid any possible QB controversy by not having a legit young draft pick waiting in the wings behind him. By signing the Sean Mannions of the world, there was never any threat of controversy or the crowd calling for a QB change when Kirk threw an INT or two. I think it was done intentionally and by design.

I would actually love to call in when Rick is one of the hosts on NFL Radio and ask him about this and a few other things. 

@"supafreak84" said: Just another thought on Spielman and his lack of rolling the dice on quarterbacks. I think missing out on Ponder made him gun shy for a bit (understandably), then there was so much scrutiny surrounding the Cousins signing from the amount of guaranteed money to his stigma of never being able to win the big game, that he wanted to avoid any possible QB controversy by not having a legit young draft pick waiting in the wings behind him. By signing the Sean Mannions of the world, there was never any threat of controversy or the crowd calling for a QB change when Kirk threw an INT or two. I think it was done intentionally and by design.

I would actually love to call in when Rick is one of the hosts on NFL Radio and ask him about this and a few other things. 

Here were the QB rankings pre-draft

1. Cam Newton, Auburn
2. Colin Kaepernick, Nevada
3. Blaine Gabbert, Missouri
4. Tyrod Taylor, Virginia Tech
5. Christian Ponder, Florida State
6. Jake Locker, Washington
7. Greg McElroy, Alabama
8. Ryan Mallett, Arkansas
9. Andy Dalton, TCU
10. Pat Devlin, Delaware
11. Ricky Stanzi, Iowa

Dalton has had a long career but with around a .500% win-loss record.  Kaep had that one year.  Locker is working at the Denny's in Spokane.

@"badgervike" said:

@"supafreak84" said: Just another thought on Spielman and his lack of rolling the dice on quarterbacks. I think missing out on Ponder made him gun shy for a bit (understandably), then there was so much scrutiny surrounding the Cousins signing from the amount of guaranteed money to his stigma of never being able to win the big game, that he wanted to avoid any possible QB controversy by not having a legit young draft pick waiting in the wings behind him. By signing the Sean Mannions of the world, there was never any threat of controversy or the crowd calling for a QB change when Kirk threw an INT or two. I think it was done intentionally and by design.

I would actually love to call in when Rick is one of the hosts on NFL Radio and ask him about this and a few other things. 

What a terrible year to be in the market for a QB as a whole.  Newton went 1st, Locker went 8th and Gabbert went 10th before the Vikings selected 12th (right after my Badger JJ Watt).  Kaepernick and Dalton were still on the board.  In retrospect, Dalton was probably the best available though fairly far down on the pre-draft rankings. Bleacher Report said:
Overall Position Grade: C
A lot of mid-tier prospects, but no franchise quarterback in the bunch.

Here were the QB rankings pre-draft

1. Cam Newton, Auburn
2. Colin Kaepernick, Nevada
3. Blaine Gabbert, Missouri
4. Tyrod Taylor, Virginia Tech
5. Christian Ponder, Florida State
6. Jake Locker, Washington
7. Greg McElroy, Alabama
8. Ryan Mallett, Arkansas
9. Andy Dalton, TCU
10. Pat Devlin, Delaware
11. Ricky Stanzi, Iowa

Dalton has had a long career but with around a .500% win-loss record.  Kaep had that one year.  Locker is working at the Denny's in Spokane.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"badgervike" said:

@"supafreak84" said: Just another thought on Spielman and his lack of rolling the dice on quarterbacks. I think missing out on Ponder made him gun shy for a bit (understandably), then there was so much scrutiny surrounding the Cousins signing from the amount of guaranteed money to his stigma of never being able to win the big game, that he wanted to avoid any possible QB controversy by not having a legit young draft pick waiting in the wings behind him. By signing the Sean Mannions of the world, there was never any threat of controversy or the crowd calling for a QB change when Kirk threw an INT or two. I think it was done intentionally and by design.

I would actually love to call in when Rick is one of the hosts on NFL Radio and ask him about this and a few other things. 

What a terrible year to be in the market for a QB as a whole.  Newton went 1st, Locker went 8th and Gabbert went 10th before the Vikings selected 12th (right after my Badger JJ Watt).  Kaepernick and Dalton were still on the board.  In retrospect, Dalton was probably the best available though fairly far down on the pre-draft rankings. Bleacher Report said:
Overall Position Grade: C
A lot of mid-tier prospects, but no franchise quarterback in the bunch.

Here were the QB rankings pre-draft

1. Cam Newton, Auburn
2. Colin Kaepernick, Nevada
3. Blaine Gabbert, Missouri
4. Tyrod Taylor, Virginia Tech
5. Christian Ponder, Florida State
6. Jake Locker, Washington
7. Greg McElroy, Alabama
8. Ryan Mallett, Arkansas
9. Andy Dalton, TCU
10. Pat Devlin, Delaware
11. Ricky Stanzi, Iowa

Dalton has had a long career but with around a .500% win-loss record.  Kaep had that one year.  Locker is working at the Denny's in Spokane.

It was a crap year to be taking a QB. I wanted us to take Pouncey and fix the interior of our offensive line. 12 years later and I'm still waiting for them to fix the interior of our line. 

This is hard to believe, but Christian Ponder is the same age as Kirk Cousins (35). Vastly different career paths..

@"badgervike" said:

@"supafreak84" said: Just another thought on Spielman and his lack of rolling the dice on quarterbacks. I think missing out on Ponder made him gun shy for a bit (understandably), then there was so much scrutiny surrounding the Cousins signing from the amount of guaranteed money to his stigma of never being able to win the big game, that he wanted to avoid any possible QB controversy by not having a legit young draft pick waiting in the wings behind him. By signing the Sean Mannions of the world, there was never any threat of controversy or the crowd calling for a QB change when Kirk threw an INT or two. I think it was done intentionally and by design.

I would actually love to call in when Rick is one of the hosts on NFL Radio and ask him about this and a few other things. 

What a terrible year to be in the market for a QB as a whole.  Newton went 1st, Locker went 8th and Gabbert went 10th before the Vikings selected 12th (right after my Badger JJ Watt).  Kaepernick and Dalton were still on the board.  In retrospect, Dalton was probably the best available though fairly far down on the pre-draft rankings. Bleacher Report said:
Overall Position Grade: C
A lot of mid-tier prospects, but no franchise quarterback in the bunch.

Here were the QB rankings pre-draft

1. Cam Newton, Auburn
2. Colin Kaepernick, Nevada
3. Blaine Gabbert, Missouri
4. Tyrod Taylor, Virginia Tech
5. Christian Ponder, Florida State
6. Jake Locker, Washington
7. Greg McElroy, Alabama
8. Ryan Mallett, Arkansas
9. Andy Dalton, TCU
10. Pat Devlin, Delaware
11. Ricky Stanzi, Iowa

Dalton has had a long career but with around a .500% win-loss record.  Kaep had that one year.  Locker is working at the Denny's in Spokane.

Eh, that’s how it goes. 
If you need a QB right now you’re kind of at the mercy of fate.  A good GM has to have a strategy for how they
end up getting a good QB in a sea of uncertain prospects.  I don’t think there’s really evidence that
suggested that Rick really had a strategy.

Regarding Bradford, he was a known injury risk.  He took a shot.  It didn’t pay off.  In hindsight, it kind of sucks that the draft
pick we used for Bradford could have picked Mahomes with a moderate trade up.

@"medaille" said: Eh, that’s how it goes.  If you need a QB right now you’re kind of at the mercy of fate.  A good GM has to have a strategy for how they end up getting a good QB in a sea of uncertain prospects.  I don’t think there’s really evidence that suggested that Rick really had a strategy.

Regarding Bradford, he was a known injury risk.  He took a shot.  It didn’t pay off.  In hindsight, it kind of sucks that the draft
pick we used for Bradford could have picked Mahomes with a moderate trade up.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"medaille" said: Eh, that’s how it goes.  If you need a QB right now you’re kind of at the mercy of fate.  A good GM has to have a strategy for how they end up getting a good QB in a sea of uncertain prospects.  I don’t think there’s really evidence that suggested that Rick really had a strategy.

Regarding Bradford, he was a known injury risk.  He took a shot.  It didn’t pay off.  In hindsight, it kind of sucks that the draft
pick we used for Bradford could have picked Mahomes with a moderate trade up.

On Mahomes, he was universally thought of as a second round pick leading up to the draft. So I'm not sure how many teams viewed him in the same light as KC who moved all the way up to draft him 10th overall. I know i was surprised when they made the pick. It took some balls to do that with Alex Smith coming off a Pro Bowl caliber season. But great example of a team having a plan at the position and executing it to perfection 

@"medaille" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"medaille" said: Eh, that’s how it goes.  If you need a QB right now you’re kind of at the mercy of fate.  A good GM has to have a strategy for how they end up getting a good QB in a sea of uncertain prospects.  I don’t think there’s really evidence that suggested that Rick really had a strategy.

Regarding Bradford, he was a known injury risk.  He took a shot.  It didn’t pay off.  In hindsight, it kind of sucks that the draft
pick we used for Bradford could have picked Mahomes with a moderate trade up.

On Mahomes, he was universally thought of as a second round pick leading up to the draft. So I'm not sure how many teams viewed him in the same light as KC who moved all the way up to draft him 10th overall. I know i was surprised when they made the pick. It took some balls to do that with Alex Smith coming off a Pro Bowl caliber season. But great example of a team having a plan at the position and executing it to perfection 

I think the thing I like most about their strategy is that
they weren’t needy and they had the stuff in place to help him succeed.  They had a good QB.  They had a good system.  They could afford to wait a year or two for
the right prospect to fall within range of them trading up for a reasonable
price that wouldn’t cripple them and if it didn’t work out they were probably
still going to the playoffs.  Then when
they saw a guy that would work, they jumped on it.  There’s a large enough sample of guys that are
SB caliber that are found within reach of teams that aren’t bottom dwellers.  You just have to be ready to get your guy
when they are available.