Vikings are waiving Reagor
Vikings are waiving former first-round draft pick Jalen Reagor, per source.
— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) August 30, 2023
@"HappyViking" said:A 5th and a 7th for 1 year of PR duty and some shit receiver play with no compensation just said bad trade for me. He wasn't all that great at PR either.@"JimmyinSD" said:Reagor only had 1 TD as a WR, but he was the first string PR on STs. I think PR was the main reason for the trade, and they hoped he'd contribute as WR. I don't think it was that bad of a trade, but I agree it didn't workout long term. Blacklock did record a sack, but mainly was there as a backup.@"HappyViking" said:Reagor did ok? No he didn't, that trade was a fail by about any measurement. Blacklock was such a non factor i cant even remember if he was on the field last year at all.Some trades work, and some don't. The Vikes gave up a 1st and 4th for Bradford who was only decent for one season and led them to an 8-8 season. Was that a good trade by veteran GM Spielman? I don't think so.Both Reagor and Blacklock did Ok for one season, but at least they didn't give up much.I dont remember what we gave up for Blacklock, but we could have gotten that production from a waiver wire free agent.
KAM needs to apply logic to some of his analytics to make this work, I am still hoping to see the genius of his plan, but so far I am just seeing a lot of head scratches. Will be interesting to see where we are a year from now.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"HappyViking" said:A 5th and a 7th for 1 year of PR duty and some shit receiver play with no compensation just said bad trade for me. He wasn't all that great at PR either.@"JimmyinSD" said:Reagor only had 1 TD as a WR, but he was the first string PR on STs. I think PR was the main reason for the trade, and they hoped he'd contribute as WR. I don't think it was that bad of a trade, but I agree it didn't workout long term. Blacklock did record a sack, but mainly was there as a backup.@"HappyViking" said:Reagor did ok? No he didn't, that trade was a fail by about any measurement. Blacklock was such a non factor i cant even remember if he was on the field last year at all.Some trades work, and some don't. The Vikes gave up a 1st and 4th for Bradford who was only decent for one season and led them to an 8-8 season. Was that a good trade by veteran GM Spielman? I don't think so.Both Reagor and Blacklock did Ok for one season, but at least they didn't give up much.I dont remember what we gave up for Blacklock, but we could have gotten that production from a waiver wire free agent.
KAM needs to apply logic to some of his analytics to make this work, I am still hoping to see the genius of his plan, but so far I am just seeing a lot of head scratches. Will be interesting to see where we are a year from now.
Reagor was drafted ahead of JJ, so they took a swing to see if they could turn things around for him. At least he filled a need at PR, but overall the trade didn't work. Big deal.
Didn't hate Rick and don't hate KAM. Just questioning his decisions. I and a few here believe that his decisions are not good and that it was easy to see when he made those decisions that they were actually terrible.I will never get over or never comprehend how any team can trade up 20 spots in the first round of a draft for what we got. You can try to explain it until you are blue in the face but unless there is a first round pick that we got from the Lions that was kept secret and will be revealed at a later date then don't waste your time.
@"HappyViking" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"HappyViking" said:A 5th and a 7th for 1 year of PR duty and some shit receiver play with no compensation just said bad trade for me. He wasn't all that great at PR either.@"JimmyinSD" said:Reagor only had 1 TD as a WR, but he was the first string PR on STs. I think PR was the main reason for the trade, and they hoped he'd contribute as WR. I don't think it was that bad of a trade, but I agree it didn't workout long term. Blacklock did record a sack, but mainly was there as a backup.@"HappyViking" said:Reagor did ok? No he didn't, that trade was a fail by about any measurement. Blacklock was such a non factor i cant even remember if he was on the field last year at all.Some trades work, and some don't. The Vikes gave up a 1st and 4th for Bradford who was only decent for one season and led them to an 8-8 season. Was that a good trade by veteran GM Spielman? I don't think so.Both Reagor and Blacklock did Ok for one season, but at least they didn't give up much.I dont remember what we gave up for Blacklock, but we could have gotten that production from a waiver wire free agent.
KAM needs to apply logic to some of his analytics to make this work, I am still hoping to see the genius of his plan, but so far I am just seeing a lot of head scratches. Will be interesting to see where we are a year from now.
Reagor was drafted ahead of JJ, so they took a swing to see if they could turn things around for him. At least he filled a need at PR, but overall the trade didn't work. Big deal.
At the time of that Reagor trade I felt it was not a good move. Not so much about what we gave up (7th and conditional 4th/5th which ended up being a 5th), because day 2 picks are just low value chips at a poker table that fans tend to overrate the value of, but because his track record in Philly was not good and you have to question any team spending a 1st on a guy then being so quick to quit on him.
KAM I'm sure has some analytics that say there is some % chance that you can recycle another team's trash and find treasure, but I think the general problem with NFL analytics applies - small sample sizes. Maybe that would be true if you could make 100 such trades in 10 years, but even then, how many gems come out of the shitpile and what did you give up along the way in the aggregate not just on say, 2-3 trades that yielded gems, but all the time/capital you spent sifting trash?Picking up trash is not just the obvious costs - draft picks, and the frustration if it fails. It's the opportunity costs as well - the draft picks might have yielded equal or greater value, and the time spent rostering the trash and trying to develop it could have been spent on potentially more productive players.
A team has no choice but to work with a lot of guys on the margins trying to fill the bottom of the roster, develop serviceable guys, etc. so to some extent, where/how you acquire those guys might not be as a big a deal as people want to make it out to be. You have to buy them either through the draft, trades, udfa signings, whatever. But I question the idea that KAM or anyone else has some metrics that are truly predictive wrt castoffs.
But even if he does, there are times when common sense should inform you as much as the Excel sheet does - Philly quitting on a guy they spent big capital on doesn't smell like opportunity for someone else, any more than SF quitting on Lance. Some guys just don't have what it takes and you really don't want to start investing in the "We've got magic that turns turds into gold around here" notion, whether it's analytical magic or whatever you're smoking.
We should have just said no to Reagor and kept Ihmir-Marsette...who actually had trade value yesterday
@"badgervike" said: We should have just said no to Reagor and kept Ihmir-Marsette...who actually had trade value yesterdayism may have more upside pr at this point more value,but if I rember I think there were wispers of charter locker room problems like ism clashing with jj. this is also his 4th team already so he could be a turd
@"Viking1987" said:Yeah, I don't think a guy that couldn't stick with the WR room in Chicago is someone that we needed to keep. We took Reagor from his first team. IMS was just trade to his 4th?@"badgervike" said: We should have just said no to Reagor and kept Ihmir-Marsette...who actually had trade value yesterday ism may have more upside pr at this point more value,but if I rember I think there were wispers of charter locker room problems like ism clashing with jj. this is also his 4th team already so he could be a turd
How quickly we forget trading a 5th for Kaare Vedvik who never even made it out of camp & a 4th for Chris Herndon.
@"Knucklehead" said: How quickly we forget trading a 5th for Kaare Vedvik who never even made it out of camp & a 4th for Chris Herndon.
Yep, brutal. All GMs have this kind of stuff on their record and in their history, it goes with the job. Take a look at the Patriots 2022 Draft class, its horrible. Yet a few are just over the top with the critique of KAM already. Its really ridiculous. Just can't wait to judge with the hidden agendas.
Trust me, we'll all have plenty of time to bitch when the time calls for it. That time isn't now.
I’m not a fan of the strategy of picking up other teams athletic
but shitty players and hoping that they dramatically improve with a change of scenery,
but I think it’s inappropriate to judge that strategy on a case by case
basis. You need to judge it over the
long term with several tries. Like if
you look at a box of pulltabs and see that most of the pulltabs are gone, but
most of the big prizes are still left.
Any given pulltab is likely to be a loss, but you’re thinking that the big
prize you’ll eventually get by investing enough times outweighs the costs.
That said, I think it’s a bad strategy and would still look
bad after many tries.
@"StickyBun" said:@"Knucklehead" said: How quickly we forget trading a 5th for Kaare Vedvik who never even made it out of camp & a 4th for Chris Herndon.
Yep, brutal. All GMs have this kind of stuff on their record and in their history, it goes with the job. Take a look at the Patriots 2022 Draft class, its horrible. Yet a few are just over the top with the critique of KAM already. Its really ridiculous. Just can't wait to judge with the hidden agendas.Trust me, we'll all have plenty of time to bitch when the time calls for it. That time isn't now.
The Patriots have never been the gold standard when it comes to drafting. They just got extremely lucky drafting the best QB in NFL history and had a defensive minded genius as a head coach to compliment him.As far as over the top critiques go, what has KAM done that you like? "Culture" comes with any regime change and it can be short lived. 13 wins with Spielmans roster and a first round playoff exit at home, ok. Trading for Hockenson who now wants to reset the TE money market when we have several other large money deals on the horizon, ok. From an actual player/personnel standpoint its been very rough sledding. Trades, whether in the draft or otherwise, have not been good. He better hope Addison ends up being the real deal otherwise this might be another rough draft class. So overall there's not been a lot to write home about for the ol' Kwes-meister two offseasons in.
I'm just happy the season is finally here and we can finally see where this ship is sailing
Hindsight is perfect, all these teams evaluated these players prior to the draft & placed a grade on them, I’m sure teams like to think they know what they’re acquiring when they give guys a 2nd or 3rd shot to make it. There are alot of things neither the media or fans know about players, their situations, their coaching, their family, or their health for that matter. Some players & positions take longer then others. You got to keep taking swings on talent, where ever you can find it…
@"supafreak84" said:@"StickyBun" said:@"Knucklehead" said: How quickly we forget trading a 5th for Kaare Vedvik who never even made it out of camp & a 4th for Chris Herndon.
Yep, brutal. All GMs have this kind of stuff on their record and in their history, it goes with the job. Take a look at the Patriots 2022 Draft class, its horrible. Yet a few are just over the top with the critique of KAM already. Its really ridiculous. Just can't wait to judge with the hidden agendas.Trust me, we'll all have plenty of time to bitch when the time calls for it. That time isn't now.
The Patriots have never been the gold standard when it comes to drafting. They just got extremely lucky drafting the best QB in NFL history and had a defensive minded genius as a head coach to compliment him.As far as over the top critiques go, what has KAM done that you like? "Culture" comes with any regime change and it can be short lived. 13 wins with Spielmans roster and a first round playoff exit at home, ok. Trading for Hockenson who now wants to reset the TE money market when we have several other large money deals on the horizon, ok. From an actual player/personnel standpoint its been very rough sledding. Trades, whether in the draft or otherwise, have not been good. He better hope Addison ends up being the real deal otherwise this might be another rough draft class. So overall there's not been a lot to write home about for the ol' Kwes-meister two offseasons in.
I'm just happy the season is finally here and we can finally see where this ship is sailing
Again, you know my thought: its premature to judge right now. That's my only point.
@"StickyBun" said:@"supafreak84" said:@"StickyBun" said:@"Knucklehead" said: How quickly we forget trading a 5th for Kaare Vedvik who never even made it out of camp & a 4th for Chris Herndon.
Yep, brutal. All GMs have this kind of stuff on their record and in their history, it goes with the job. Take a look at the Patriots 2022 Draft class, its horrible. Yet a few are just over the top with the critique of KAM already. Its really ridiculous. Just can't wait to judge with the hidden agendas.Trust me, we'll all have plenty of time to bitch when the time calls for it. That time isn't now.
The Patriots have never been the gold standard when it comes to drafting. They just got extremely lucky drafting the best QB in NFL history and had a defensive minded genius as a head coach to compliment him.As far as over the top critiques go, what has KAM done that you like? "Culture" comes with any regime change and it can be short lived. 13 wins with Spielmans roster and a first round playoff exit at home, ok. Trading for Hockenson who now wants to reset the TE money market when we have several other large money deals on the horizon, ok. From an actual player/personnel standpoint its been very rough sledding. Trades, whether in the draft or otherwise, have not been good. He better hope Addison ends up being the real deal otherwise this might be another rough draft class. So overall there's not been a lot to write home about for the ol' Kwes-meister two offseasons in.
I'm just happy the season is finally here and we can finally see where this ship is sailing
Again, you know my thought: its premature to judge right now. That's my only point.
Fair enough, but I think you can take the fact that he's never worked in scouting/player personnel combined with his relative lack of experience and some of the curious to just bad decisions he's made thusfar and have real cause to be concerned without calling it an over the top critique.
@"supafreak84" said:@"StickyBun" said:@"supafreak84" said:@"StickyBun" said:@"Knucklehead" said: How quickly we forget trading a 5th for Kaare Vedvik who never even made it out of camp & a 4th for Chris Herndon.
Yep, brutal. All GMs have this kind of stuff on their record and in their history, it goes with the job. Take a look at the Patriots 2022 Draft class, its horrible. Yet a few are just over the top with the critique of KAM already. Its really ridiculous. Just can't wait to judge with the hidden agendas.Trust me, we'll all have plenty of time to bitch when the time calls for it. That time isn't now.
The Patriots have never been the gold standard when it comes to drafting. They just got extremely lucky drafting the best QB in NFL history and had a defensive minded genius as a head coach to compliment him.As far as over the top critiques go, what has KAM done that you like? "Culture" comes with any regime change and it can be short lived. 13 wins with Spielmans roster and a first round playoff exit at home, ok. Trading for Hockenson who now wants to reset the TE money market when we have several other large money deals on the horizon, ok. From an actual player/personnel standpoint its been very rough sledding. Trades, whether in the draft or otherwise, have not been good. He better hope Addison ends up being the real deal otherwise this might be another rough draft class. So overall there's not been a lot to write home about for the ol' Kwes-meister two offseasons in.
I'm just happy the season is finally here and we can finally see where this ship is sailing
Again, you know my thought: its premature to judge right now. That's my only point.
Fair enough, but I think you can take the fact that he's never worked in scouting/player personnel combined with his relative lack of experience and some of the curious to just bad decisions he's made thusfar and have real cause to be concerned without calling it an over the top critique.
I think if you look in this thread and one other, you'l see what I'm talking about lol. The two examples with Vedvik and Herndon are worse than anything KAM's done to date. By far.
@"StickyBun" said:@"supafreak84" said:@"StickyBun" said:@"supafreak84" said:@"StickyBun" said:@"Knucklehead" said: How quickly we forget trading a 5th for Kaare Vedvik who never even made it out of camp & a 4th for Chris Herndon.
Yep, brutal. All GMs have this kind of stuff on their record and in their history, it goes with the job. Take a look at the Patriots 2022 Draft class, its horrible. Yet a few are just over the top with the critique of KAM already. Its really ridiculous. Just can't wait to judge with the hidden agendas.Trust me, we'll all have plenty of time to bitch when the time calls for it. That time isn't now.
The Patriots have never been the gold standard when it comes to drafting. They just got extremely lucky drafting the best QB in NFL history and had a defensive minded genius as a head coach to compliment him.As far as over the top critiques go, what has KAM done that you like? "Culture" comes with any regime change and it can be short lived. 13 wins with Spielmans roster and a first round playoff exit at home, ok. Trading for Hockenson who now wants to reset the TE money market when we have several other large money deals on the horizon, ok. From an actual player/personnel standpoint its been very rough sledding. Trades, whether in the draft or otherwise, have not been good. He better hope Addison ends up being the real deal otherwise this might be another rough draft class. So overall there's not been a lot to write home about for the ol' Kwes-meister two offseasons in.
I'm just happy the season is finally here and we can finally see where this ship is sailing
Again, you know my thought: its premature to judge right now. That's my only point.
Fair enough, but I think you can take the fact that he's never worked in scouting/player personnel combined with his relative lack of experience and some of the curious to just bad decisions he's made thusfar and have real cause to be concerned without calling it an over the top critique.
I think if you look in this thread and one other, you'l see what I'm talking about lol. The two examples with Vedvik and Herndon are worse than anything KAM's done to date. By far.
But not worse then the Lions or Packers trade downs last draft. We got shit for value in the Lions trade down and we allowed Green Bay to move up to draft Christian Watson while we took Andrew Booth and Ingram. Dogshit...You want to know the fastest way for a green GM to alienate his fanbase? Make dumbass trades with division rivals because you think you are smarter then everybody, only to have those moves blow up in your face.
@"StickyBun" said:So those two moves were worst than trading a high valued 12th and 46th for a 32, 34 and 66 and we are not even going to bring up what he did with 32 and 34. That is one of the worst GM blunders I have seen. Kwesi already has more head scratchers in 2 years than Rick did in 15.I think if you look in this thread and one other, you'l see what I'm talking about lol. The two examples with Vedvik and Herndon are worse than anything KAM's done to date. By far.
John Carlson, Mike Wallace, Sam Bradford, Daniel Carlson, Kaare V, Josh Freeman etc. All GMs made good and bad descisions.
@"mblack" said: John Carlson, Mike Wallace, Sam Bradford, Daniel Carlson, Kaare V, Josh Freeman etc. All GMs made good and bad descisions.Daniel Carlson was an exceptional draft pick, it was not Rick's fault that Zimmer allowed his temper to make an irrational decision. Bradford was a move they needed to make as they were a Super Bowl favorite that year and they needed to go for it, don't forget Bradford and the team starting on fire and were 5-0 to start the season, overall he had 72% completion percentage, 3800 yards, 20 TDs and 5 picks, so I would say a pretty good year. Next season injuries got him, but it was worth the shot for the previous year. Freeman was a low risk move as did not cost them anything and he got Wallace for a swap of late round picks so would not call either of those a bad move.
@"mblack" said: John Carlson, Mike Wallace, Sam Bradford, Daniel Carlson, Kaare V, Josh Freeman etc. All GMs made good and bad descisions.I think we can throw Sam Bradford out of that mix. When you are a conference favorite and lose your starting quarterback to a catastrophic leg injury 10 days before the regular season starts...you do what you have to do, and Bradford was a good player for us until his knee gave out. There were no better options and holding that move as a negative against Spieman is ridiculous
Edit Post (mod action — author will see a notice)
Warn Poster
Suspend User (3 days)
The user will be suspended for 3 days and will receive an email with the reason and information about how to appeal.