Vikes new blocking TE

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"Skodin" said: This is a great pickup.

Our running game (and screen game) sucked last year.   This guy was #8 overall TE by PFF and one of the best, if not thee best run blocker.  Having him on the field gives you more flexibility with Hockensen going down the field.  Most importantly his capabilities can help open up Jefferson for more one on ones.  Running game improves, you force a safety in the box.  With Hock, JJ, and a potential speedster 2WR (damn missing out on Williams and Watson last year), someone is going to have single coverage.

Cap wise, this is either 2 or 3 years for $10.5M guaranteed.  If you cut Ham, which you should if he is not going to have a strong role at $3.5M, then this contract barely registers but your roster and gameplan is better.

Good way to start the signings.

(Plus word is he is best friend's with the other purple 8#)

Do you think this means they will leave Cook's deal as is and keep him?

One thing that seems clear with this signing is that the Vikings have already made (or at least accounted for) the moves necessary to be well under the cap. We just don't know what they are yet. 

There is nothing wrong with Oliver as a player, but it's definitely the optics of it.  Edmunds and Sutton were impact players on defense that would have helped us and it looks like we're playing on the margins looking for bargains before FA even officially begins.

And coincidentally both those guys went to division rivals.

@"MaroonBells" said: One thing that seems clear with this signing is that the Vikings have already made (or at least accounted for) the moves necessary to be well under the cap. We just don't know what they are yet. 

I think this signing is part of the plan to get us under the cap, as we can cut Ham and Oliver gets veteran minimum this year, so it saves us something like $2M.

I don't think it's going to change how much 11 personnel we use, but rather all our 21 personnel would just switch to 12.

yawn. Let it play out guys. We got a good player. Lets see what else they got going before we chace em with pitchforks. 

@"medaille" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: One thing that seems clear with this signing is that the Vikings have already made (or at least accounted for) the moves necessary to be well under the cap. We just don't know what they are yet. 

I think this signing is part of the plan to get us under the cap, as we can cut Ham and Oliver gets veteran minimum this year, so it saves us something like $2M.

I don't think it's going to change how much 11 personnel we use, but rather all our 21 personnel would just switch to 12.

Love the move. This is a league of favorable matchups and this guy will help create some. 

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"medaille" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: One thing that seems clear with this signing is that the Vikings have already made (or at least accounted for) the moves necessary to be well under the cap. We just don't know what they are yet. 

I think this signing is part of the plan to get us under the cap, as we can cut Ham and Oliver gets veteran minimum this year, so it saves us something like $2M.

I don't think it's going to change how much 11 personnel we use, but rather all our 21 personnel would just switch to 12.

How would they give him the minimum (1.08M), save 2M or so in cap space, and guarantee Oliver 10M?

Maybe they give Oliver a 9M signing bonus and that minimum salary but that would end up costing 900K or so if, and it is a big IF, Ham is released.

I do not see why the team would not have released Ham already so he could get a start in free agency.

@"AGRforever" said: yawn. Let it play out guys. We got a good player. Lets see what else they got going before we chace em with pitchforks. 

But that would make sense, it's overreaction time right now.

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"medaille" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: One thing that seems clear with this signing is that the Vikings have already made (or at least accounted for) the moves necessary to be well under the cap. We just don't know what they are yet. 

I think this signing is part of the plan to get us under the cap, as we can cut Ham and Oliver gets veteran minimum this year, so it saves us something like $2M.

I don't think it's going to change how much 11 personnel we use, but rather all our 21 personnel would just switch to 12.

How would they give him the minimum (1.08M), save 2M or so in cap space, and guarantee Oliver 10M?

Maybe they give Oliver a 9M signing bonus and that minimum salary but that would end up costing 900K or so if, and it is a big IF, Ham is released.

I do not see why the team would not have released Ham already so he could get a start in free agency.

On first glance you don't think TE is a need, but this generally makes them more multiple on offense. 12-personnel is what gets brought up, but its the ability to force teams out of their nickel defense that's more compelling. 

Between Oliver & Hock you get a top 3 receiving and blocking TE committee. 

In the pass game out of 12 you also get a high-end blocking TE who can help with any matchup on the outside. The contract won't be nearly as expensive as it looks either. Nothing to pop bottles over, but its a forward thinking move. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said: On first glance you don't think TE is a need, but this generally makes them more multiple on offense. 12-personnel is what gets brought up, but its the ability to force teams out of their nickel defense that's more compelling. 

Between Oliver & Hock you get a top 3 receiving and blocking TE committee. 

In the pass game out of 12 you also get a high-end blocking TE who can help with any matchup on the outside. The contract won't be nearly as expensive as it looks either. Nothing to pop bottles over, but its a forward thinking move. 

But TE wasn't a need and Oliver has never even amassed 150 yards receiving, not in a game, but for an entire season. So to me there is still a lot to be proven from him as a consistent receiving threat and we just ponied up a nice contract and spent money that should have been spent on the defensive side of the football. Like I said if they really wanted a second TE so bad why not look at the draft where we could have taken advantage of a deep crop and had them on a rookie contract? There is just not much that this front office does that makes a whole lot of sense and this is just the latest example.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: On first glance you don't think TE is a need, but this generally makes them more multiple on offense. 12-personnel is what gets brought up, but its the ability to force teams out of their nickel defense that's more compelling. 

Between Oliver & Hock you get a top 3 receiving and blocking TE committee. 

In the pass game out of 12 you also get a high-end blocking TE who can help with any matchup on the outside. The contract won't be nearly as expensive as it looks either. Nothing to pop bottles over, but its a forward thinking move. 

But TE wasn't a need and Oliver has never even amassed 150 yards receiving, not in a game, but for an entire season. So to me there is still a lot to be proven from him as a consistent receiving threat and we just ponied up a nice contract and spent money that should have been spent on the defensive side of the football. Like I said if they really wanted a second TE so bad why not look at the draft where we could have taken advantage of a deep crop and had them on a rookie contract? There is just not much that this front office does that makes a whole lot of sense and this is just the latest example.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: On first glance you don't think TE is a need, but this generally makes them more multiple on offense. 12-personnel is what gets brought up, but its the ability to force teams out of their nickel defense that's more compelling. 

Between Oliver & Hock you get a top 3 receiving and blocking TE committee. 

In the pass game out of 12 you also get a high-end blocking TE who can help with any matchup on the outside. The contract won't be nearly as expensive as it looks either. Nothing to pop bottles over, but its a forward thinking move. 

But TE wasn't a need and Oliver has never even amassed 150 yards receiving, not in a game, but for an entire season. So to me there is still a lot to be proven from him as a consistent receiving threat and we just ponied up a nice contract and spent money that should have been spent on the defensive side of the football. Like I said if they really wanted a second TE so bad why not look at the draft where we could have taken advantage of a deep crop and had them on a rookie contract? There is just not much that this front office does that makes a whole lot of sense and this is just the latest example.

He's not a receiving TE, his role will be to be a 6th offensive lineman who has enough ability as a pass catcher to allow the Vikings to dictate their matchups on the offensive side of the ball. Could you have drafted a TE? Sure. But would he be a top 2-3 in-line blocked in the NFL? Probably not. The Vikings targeted and paid for a unique skillset rather than a well rounded player. You don't always need a single well rounded player to fill every role. 

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: On first glance you don't think TE is a need, but this generally makes them more multiple on offense. 12-personnel is what gets brought up, but its the ability to force teams out of their nickel defense that's more compelling. 

Between Oliver & Hock you get a top 3 receiving and blocking TE committee. 

In the pass game out of 12 you also get a high-end blocking TE who can help with any matchup on the outside. The contract won't be nearly as expensive as it looks either. Nothing to pop bottles over, but its a forward thinking move. 

But TE wasn't a need and Oliver has never even amassed 150 yards receiving, not in a game, but for an entire season. So to me there is still a lot to be proven from him as a consistent receiving threat and we just ponied up a nice contract and spent money that should have been spent on the defensive side of the football. Like I said if they really wanted a second TE so bad why not look at the draft where we could have taken advantage of a deep crop and had them on a rookie contract? There is just not much that this front office does that makes a whole lot of sense and this is just the latest example.

He's not a receiving TE, his role will be to be a 6th offensive lineman who has enough ability as a pass catcher to allow the Vikings to dictate their matchups on the offensive side of the ball. Could you have drafted a TE? Sure. But would he be a top 2-3 in-line blocked in the NFL? Probably not. The Vikings targeted and paid for a unique skillset rather than a well rounded player. You don't always need a single well rounded player to fill every role. 

It's just strange money allocation. There are apparently escalators in his deal that could raise the total value to 24 million with 11 million guaranteed and we still don't have Hockenson signed to his extension yet. Hope it works out. I find myself saying that a lot with this front office. 

Sneaky love this.
I envision Vikings offense predominantly using 12 personnel now. Hock’s versatility makes this a tough grouping to line up against. #SKOL https://t.co/TU9zKjOOhq

— Ben Leber (@nacholeber) March 13, 2023

@"rf54" said: Wah!  the Vikings are over the cap and cannot sign any FAs!

Wah!  the Vikings never sign anybody in FA!!!

Wah!  I don't like that guy... I want MY mancrush!

Wah!!!!!!

I definitely qualified on the first "Wah!, LOL.

However, I like this signing because our short-yardage run game in particular was crap.  If KOC trusts the run blocking more, maybe he won't be going empty backfield on 3rd/4th and one next year. Also the Davenport signing means Z is out one way or another.   Now about Dalvin and Harry... 

According to @PFF, Josh Oliver was the 2nd best run blocking TE in all of football in 2022. pic.twitter.com/obsVGgh37k

— vikesinsider (@vikesinsider) March 13, 2023

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: On first glance you don't think TE is a need, but this generally makes them more multiple on offense. 12-personnel is what gets brought up, but its the ability to force teams out of their nickel defense that's more compelling. 

Between Oliver & Hock you get a top 3 receiving and blocking TE committee. 

In the pass game out of 12 you also get a high-end blocking TE who can help with any matchup on the outside. The contract won't be nearly as expensive as it looks either. Nothing to pop bottles over, but its a forward thinking move. 

But TE wasn't a need and Oliver has never even amassed 150 yards receiving, not in a game, but for an entire season. So to me there is still a lot to be proven from him as a consistent receiving threat and we just ponied up a nice contract and spent money that should have been spent on the defensive side of the football. Like I said if they really wanted a second TE so bad why not look at the draft where we could have taken advantage of a deep crop and had them on a rookie contract? There is just not much that this front office does that makes a whole lot of sense and this is just the latest example.

He's not a receiving TE, his role will be to be a 6th offensive lineman who has enough ability as a pass catcher to allow the Vikings to dictate their matchups on the offensive side of the ball. Could you have drafted a TE? Sure. But would he be a top 2-3 in-line blocked in the NFL? Probably not. The Vikings targeted and paid for a unique skillset rather than a well rounded player. You don't always need a single well rounded player to fill every role. 

It's just strange money allocation. There are apparently escalators in his deal that could raise the total value to 24 million with 11 million guaranteed and we still don't have Hockenson signed to his extension yet. Hope it works out. I find myself saying that a lot with this front office. 

We need to wait for the contract details to come out. Ultimately the deal won't look as strong as it does on paper.