Scoggins: Vikings' Spielman is low on chips in high-stakes roster game
Scoggins: Vikings' Spielman is low on chips in high-stakes roster gameRecent roster moves show that the Vikings general manager is feeling real pressure to deliver a winner this season and can't afford to sit patiently and hope that things improve.Sunday marked the one-year anniversary of Rick Spielman’s bold but necessary trade for Sam Bradford in a Hail Mary attempt to save the Vikings’ 2016 season after Teddy Bridgewater’s devastating knee injury.
In the pecking order of Spielman’s personnel decisions last season, nothing comes close to acquiring a starting quarterback at the cost of a first-round pick. His next three most important moves were signing free-agent guard Alex Boone and drafting receiver Laquon Treadwell in the first round and cornerback Mackensie Alexander in the second round.
Now fast-forward one year.
Spielman cut Boone on Saturday, leaving $3.4 million in dead money on the team’s tab. Spielman also traded for veteran cornerback Tramaine Brock over the weekend, presumably as insurance because Alexander has yet to prove he can handle the nickel-corner job. In May, Spielman took a gamble on wide receiver Michael Floyd after Treadwell contributed next-to-nothing in his rookie season.
Those moves show that the Vikings general manager is feeling real pressure to deliver a winner this season and can’t afford to sit patiently and hope that things improve.
The Vikings haven’t won a playoff game since 2009. Their 2016 season became an epic unraveling. No doubt the Wilf ownership expects to see substantial improvement and signs that the organization is on a championship trajectory in a season that will end with the Super Bowl extravaganza being held in their new home.
This is a critical season for Spielman’s operation, which puts those aforementioned moves into context...
http://www.startribune.com/vikings-gm-rick-spielman-is-low-in-chips-in-high-stakes-roster-game/442710173/
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
Looks like Chippy edited his headline as it now reads:
Scoggins: Vikings' Spielman is feeling pressure in critical season
I'm not predicting that the team will have a poor defense, or that Zimmer will fail. But last year, his defense broke at key points and his players often looked lost. I hope it was a 2016 aberration, but if it continues, stats won't save him.
My question is : Why WOULDN'T Ricky FINALLY be on the hot seat?
This is his 12th season in Winter Park. He has ALWAYS been in charge of both College and Professional Scouting departments, and with the title of VICE PRESIDENT OF PLAYER PERSONNEL, I'm guessing he had some input into MOST, if not all, personnel decisions. Call me crazy for coming to that wacky conclusion.
1 playoff win since 2006 is just unacceptable, especially when I keep hearing about what a "winning" organization the Vikings are!! LMAO! They've been the epitome of mediocre this century!
I see that fans defend Saint Richard by focusing on individual draft picks or trades, but ALWAYS overlook the most important statistic.....WINNING.
The vast majority of successful teams have one thing in common : The TEAM exceeds the sum of it's parts. It doesn't matter how many Pro Bowlers you draft or how young/old the roster is. If you don't WIN, it means Jack Schitt.
Hopefully the Wilf's are seeing through his bullshit and will start focusing on his incredible lack of success. No more excuses this year. A deep playoff run or Ricky Gotta Go!!!!
11 years, ONE playoff win. That sucks, end of story.
@"MaroonBells" said: I have a hard time blaming any of this on Spielman. The talent is there. The drafts have been good. And this notion from the article that Spielman foolishly entrusted his nickel corner spot to a 2nd year, 2nd round corner who is IDEALLY suited to play nickel is just ridiculous.I know it won't be popular, but I put Zimmer on the hot seat before Spielman. I'm just not convinced he's the great coach many think he is.
They are tied together, if Spielman goes Zim goes with, and Zim lost the team last year.
@"NoGoingBack" said: #3 overall defense. #3 overall pass defense. Not as good on the rushing side, but complaining about a unit that went from dead last to 3rd in 3 years seems a bit like you might be suffering from confirmation bias.If the defense falters then yes that's all on Zim, and strong defense is the reason he's here. And he's built one, and the numbers back him up.
Seems like a lot of folks take that for granted, but it isn't, and if we move on from Zim you can expect the defense to get worse. Would it be worth it for the offensive side? Could be, but you've got to at least be realistic about the tradeoff you'd be making.
Who's the head coach? Zimmer
It's great that the defense has been turned around but the offense is still below Fraziers offense and I didn't think that was possible.
@"njvike" said: My question is : Why WOULDN'T Ricky FINALLY be on the hot seat?This is his 12th season in Winter Park. He has ALWAYS been in charge of both College and Professional Scouting departments, and with the title of VICE PRESIDENT OF PLAYER PERSONNEL, I'm guessing he had some input into MOST, if not all, personnel decisions. Call me crazy for coming to that wacky conclusion.
1 playoff win since 2006 is just unacceptable, especially when I keep hearing about what a "winning" organization the Vikings are!! LMAO! They've been the epitome of mediocre this century!
I see that fans defend Saint Richard by focusing on individual draft picks or trades, but ALWAYS overlook the most important statistic.....WINNING.
The vast majority of successful teams have one thing in common : The TEAM exceeds the sum of it's parts. It doesn't matter how many Pro Bowlers you draft or how young/old the roster is. If you don't WIN, it means Jack Schitt.
Hopefully the Wilf's are seeing through his bullshit and will start focusing on his incredible lack of success. No more excuses this year. A deep playoff run or Ricky Gotta Go!!!!
11 years, ONE playoff win. That sucks, end of story.
Putting aside the monotony of your endless one note piano posts about RS, who do you think hired him in the first place and have kept him around for 12 years? This notion that the Wilfs are football guys and they just need to "see through Rick's b.s." is LAUGHABLE. They are the idiots who hired Foley, hired Childress without so much as interviewing another candidate, and then did the same with Les Frazier, and only after 7 years of futility (not including one year of rent-a-Favre which was essentially effed up by their hand picked coach Chili) did they decide to ditch the triangle of stupidity and actually put RS in charge of football operations.
Whether you like him as some do, or have some obsessive hatred of him as you do, doesn't really matter, because if your wish that he be gone comes true after this season, you'd better hope that idiot Zygmunt somehow has learned after 12 years of ownership to hire someone better. I don't see it. Be careful what you wish for, you might someone a whole lot worse. And if one playoff win in 12 years is the most important criteria, then why have the brilliant Wilfs you are so confident in sat on their hands for 12 years putting up with that? Maybe the truth is they are mediocre owners and you'll just be crying about the next g.m. they hire after he's failed to make improvements over time.
@"Bolstad79" said:@"NoGoingBack" said: #3 overall defense. #3 overall pass defense. Not as good on the rushing side, but complaining about a unit that went from dead last to 3rd in 3 years seems a bit like you might be suffering from confirmation bias.If the defense falters then yes that's all on Zim, and strong defense is the reason he's here. And he's built one, and the numbers back him up.
Seems like a lot of folks take that for granted, but it isn't, and if we move on from Zim you can expect the defense to get worse. Would it be worth it for the offensive side? Could be, but you've got to at least be realistic about the tradeoff you'd be making.
Who's the head coach? ZimmerIt's great that the defense has been turned around but the offense is still below Fraziers offense and I didn't think that was possible.
Going into year 4 and Zimmer has produced decent defense as expected but bottom of the barrel offense. It was revealed that one reason he did interviews for so long without getting hired was that teams would ask him about what his staff would look like and who he'd hire and he'd dismiss that with "I'll figure that out once you hire me." And it appears maybe he did just that, as he felt Turner would just produce a good offense and he would not have any responsibility for it, but all that blew up last year in so many ways and it's his fault. The responsibility lies with the head guy. This season is a big question mark and a lot of folks including me think it's going to be a .500 (or worse) year. I guess we'll know a lot more next Monday night.
@"comet52" said:@"njvike" said: My question is : Why WOULDN'T Ricky FINALLY be on the hot seat?This is his 12th season in Winter Park. He has ALWAYS been in charge of both College and Professional Scouting departments, and with the title of VICE PRESIDENT OF PLAYER PERSONNEL, I'm guessing he had some input into MOST, if not all, personnel decisions. Call me crazy for coming to that wacky conclusion.
1 playoff win since 2006 is just unacceptable, especially when I keep hearing about what a "winning" organization the Vikings are!! LMAO! They've been the epitome of mediocre this century!
I see that fans defend Saint Richard by focusing on individual draft picks or trades, but ALWAYS overlook the most important statistic.....WINNING.
The vast majority of successful teams have one thing in common : The TEAM exceeds the sum of it's parts. It doesn't matter how many Pro Bowlers you draft or how young/old the roster is. If you don't WIN, it means Jack Schitt.
Hopefully the Wilf's are seeing through his bullshit and will start focusing on his incredible lack of success. No more excuses this year. A deep playoff run or Ricky Gotta Go!!!!
11 years, ONE playoff win. That sucks, end of story.
Putting aside the monotony of your endless one note piano posts about RS, who do you think hired him in the first place and have kept him around for 12 years? This notion that the Wilfs are football guys and they just need to "see through Rick's b.s." is LAUGHABLE. They are the idiots who hired Foley, hired Childress without so much as interviewing another candidate, and then did the same with Les Frazier, and only after 7 years of futility (not including one year of rent-a-Favre which was essentially effed up by their hand picked coach Chili) did they decide to ditch the triangle of stupidity and actually put RS in charge of football operations.Whether you like him as some do, or have some obsessive hatred of him as you do, doesn't really matter, because if your wish that he be gone comes true after this season, you'd better hope that idiot Zygmunt somehow has learned after 12 years of ownership to hire someone better. I don't see it. Be careful what you wish for, you might someone a whole lot worse. And if one playoff win in 12 years is the most important criteria, then why have the brilliant Wilfs you are so confident in sat on their hands for 12 years putting up with that? Maybe the truth is they are mediocre owners and you'll just be crying about the next g.m. they hire after he's failed to make improvements over time.
Lol! Piss off you little weenie.Once again you Ricky fluffers side step his LOSING record.
Spin it any way you want, Schpielman is a documented LOSER. As the Wilf's idol, Bill Parcells, says, " You are what your record says you are"
And in Dicky's case, the record proves he's a loser.
But you Rychophants keep desperately trying to defend him! It's actually become comical....please keep it up, because YOUR one note "Ode to Saint Richard" should be coming to an end following a patented Schpielman Special, aka a .500 season with ZERO playoff wins.
Nighty Nite, Slappy.
@"njvike" said:@"comet52" said:@"njvike" said: My question is : Why WOULDN'T Ricky FINALLY be on the hot seat?This is his 12th season in Winter Park. He has ALWAYS been in charge of both College and Professional Scouting departments, and with the title of VICE PRESIDENT OF PLAYER PERSONNEL, I'm guessing he had some input into MOST, if not all, personnel decisions. Call me crazy for coming to that wacky conclusion.
1 playoff win since 2006 is just unacceptable, especially when I keep hearing about what a "winning" organization the Vikings are!! LMAO! They've been the epitome of mediocre this century!
I see that fans defend Saint Richard by focusing on individual draft picks or trades, but ALWAYS overlook the most important statistic.....WINNING.
The vast majority of successful teams have one thing in common : The TEAM exceeds the sum of it's parts. It doesn't matter how many Pro Bowlers you draft or how young/old the roster is. If you don't WIN, it means Jack Schitt.
Hopefully the Wilf's are seeing through his bullshit and will start focusing on his incredible lack of success. No more excuses this year. A deep playoff run or Ricky Gotta Go!!!!
11 years, ONE playoff win. That sucks, end of story.
Putting aside the monotony of your endless one note piano posts about RS, who do you think hired him in the first place and have kept him around for 12 years? This notion that the Wilfs are football guys and they just need to "see through Rick's b.s." is LAUGHABLE. They are the idiots who hired Foley, hired Childress without so much as interviewing another candidate, and then did the same with Les Frazier, and only after 7 years of futility (not including one year of rent-a-Favre which was essentially effed up by their hand picked coach Chili) did they decide to ditch the triangle of stupidity and actually put RS in charge of football operations.Whether you like him as some do, or have some obsessive hatred of him as you do, doesn't really matter, because if your wish that he be gone comes true after this season, you'd better hope that idiot Zygmunt somehow has learned after 12 years of ownership to hire someone better. I don't see it. Be careful what you wish for, you might someone a whole lot worse. And if one playoff win in 12 years is the most important criteria, then why have the brilliant Wilfs you are so confident in sat on their hands for 12 years putting up with that? Maybe the truth is they are mediocre owners and you'll just be crying about the next g.m. they hire after he's failed to make improvements over time.
Lol! Piss off you little weenie.Once again you Ricky fluffers side step his LOSING record.
Spin it any way you want, Schpielman is a documented LOSER. As the Wilf's idol, Bill Parcells, says, " You are what your record says you are"
And in Dicky's case, the record proves he's a loser.
But you Rychophants keep desperately trying to defend him! It's actually become comical....please keep it up, because YOUR one note "Ode to Saint Richard" should be coming to an end following a patented Schpielman Special, aka a .500 season with ZERO playoff wins.
Nighty Nite, Slappy.
The Wilfs idol doesn't seem capable of helping them to build a winner. The Wilfs love them some Rick Spielman, heck, he might be here another 10 years.. I think Zygmunt knows he is a complete moron when it comes to hiring and he probably will stick with what he knows - a guy who runs his team competently if not brilliantly, and keeps the revenue coming in. A guy who's served him loyally for 12 years, a company man. That's what powerful guys like, someone who says yes.
That's all that really matters to Zygmunt anyway, the cash-ola. He could give a shit about your hopes and dreams--your still believing in him like a child believes in Santa after 12 years of his crap football is proof of that. You are another Wilf sucker who has invented his own peculiar hate fantasy that RS somehow is the key to it all, oh yes, please Mister Wilf get rid of Evil Ricky, I put pins in my Evil Ricky doll tonight and posted another hundred times on the message board to make it come true! Talk about a slappy, lol.
Despite the concerns several of us have regarding our defense, it's good enough to win games. If we can't figure out how to start scoring points with the other elite teams in the NFC it won't matter. After the bye week, we averaged 18.9 points per game for the rest of the season which only produced 3 wins. If you throw out the 38 points we scored against the Bears in the last game of the year that was completely meaningless, that average drops down to 17 points per game. That isn't enough to win in this league even with an elite defense. I've seen nothing out of Shurmur that would indicate those scoring averages are going to change. Even Zimmer spoke out about it this preseason that he is frustrated with our lack of scoring. He knows his butt is on the line and his pathetic offense with Shurmur at the helm is just as bad or worse than Turner's.
Despite all their rhetoric about winning is everything, NFL teams don't need to win to make boatloads of money. Franchises like the Browns, Rams, and several others slip into perpetual mediocrity and their owners continue to thrive. The Vikings are beginning to fall into that category it seems.
The Wilf's have made a lot of money. I think they are happy. Sure they would love to win it all, but if they don't, life is good.
@"TBro" said: Despite the concerns several of us have regarding our defense, it's good enough to win games. If we can't figure out how to start scoring points with the other elite teams in the NFC it won't matter. After the bye week, we averaged 18.9 points per game for the rest of the season which only produced 3 wins. If you throw out the 38 points we scored against the Bears in the last game of the year that was completely meaningless, that average drops down to 17 points per game. That isn't enough to win in this league even with an elite defense. I've seen nothing out of Shurmur that would indicate those scoring averages are going to change. Even Zimmer spoke out about it this preseason that he is frustrated with our lack of scoring. He knows his butt is on the line and his pathetic offense with Shurmur at the helm is just as bad or worse than Turner's.I heard a quote from Wobby a few weeks ago that if the Vikes score 21 points or more in a game their record under Zimmers is like 21-3 or something like that. basically if our O can put up 21 points there is a very high probability for a win. I am not as down on this O yet as some others, I think we will see a pretty marked improvement for this O this year and I think we can see an extra .5 TD per game increase or close to it, if not more.
I know others say that a 3 to 4 point increase is a huge amount for a team to go up in one year on average, but considering we are talking about a team at or near the bottom, that has made (on paper/in theory thus year) some significant strides/changes on offense, I dont think its really out of line to expect to see 22-23 points per game average which IMO should lead to at least 3 more wins over the course of the season over last year.
@"MaroonBells" said:It's hard for me to blame him for neglecting the OL since I sort of agree with the school of thought that says you don't need top draft choices on your OL. I've said it many times, but if I were in charge (and damn it, why aren't I?), I'd never use a 1st rounder on an OL. HOWEVER, I'd use the 2nd and 3rd round as my OL rounds. Spielman's problem is that he used the 4th round and below, which reduces your chances of hitting significantly. Sounds like he may have adjusted correctly this year, using a 3rd for Elflein. He may have gotten lucky in the 5th round with Isadora as well. My biggest complaint about Spielman (or maybe Zimmer) is that our OL scouts don't seem to be very good at finding down draft OL talent. And our OL coaches haven't been very good at developing them. If one is bad, then the other has to be very good, and that hasn't been the case.
That would be take as well. It isn't that we haven't drafted O-line, we just haven't drafted well. The Baca/Yankey/Beaver type didn't fill spots. IMO, O-line is where you should be able to find guys late, especially for the interior. But we didn't draft well and failed to develop them. Clemmings was a great pick IMO. Had the talent, everything you want, but was very raw and with that mentally unready. Injuries and whatever else happened put him in a spot that he wasn't allowed to develop and lost his confidence.
@"njvike" said:A note to consider, lose the name calling. Name calling other posters is unacceptable. Spielman is a public figure and can handle/ignore the heat, but stop the personal stuff.@"comet52" said:Putting aside the monotony of your endless one note piano posts about RS, who do you think hired him in the first place and have kept him around for 12 years? This notion that the Wilfs are football guys and they just need to "see through Rick's b.s." is LAUGHABLE. They are the idiots who hired Foley, hired Childress without so much as interviewing another candidate, and then did the same with Les Frazier, and only after 7 years of futility (not including one year of rent-a-Favre which was essentially effed up by their hand picked coach Chili) did they decide to ditch the triangle of stupidity and actually put RS in charge of football operations.Whether you like him as some do, or have some obsessive hatred of him as you do, doesn't really matter, because if your wish that he be gone comes true after this season, you'd better hope that idiot Zygmunt somehow has learned after 12 years of ownership to hire someone better. I don't see it. Be careful what you wish for, you might someone a whole lot worse. And if one playoff win in 12 years is the most important criteria, then why have the brilliant Wilfs you are so confident in sat on their hands for 12 years putting up with that? Maybe the truth is they are mediocre owners and you'll just be crying about the next g.m. they hire after he's failed to make improvements over time.
Lol! Piss off you little weenie.Once again you Ricky fluffers side step his LOSING record.
Spin it any way you want, Schpielman is a documented LOSER. As the Wilf's idol, Bill Parcells, says, " You are what your record says you are"
And in Dicky's case, the record proves he's a loser.
But you Rychophants keep desperately trying to defend him! It's actually become comical....please keep it up, because YOUR one note "Ode to Saint Richard" should be coming to an end following a patented Schpielman Special, aka a .500 season with ZERO playoff wins.
Nighty Nite, Slappy.
Spielman is averaging 7.8 wins a season, which while
technically “losing” is pretty middle of the road and one 10-6 season would put
him into the “winning” category.
You can also break down his time as Viking based on how the
team performed with specific coaching staffs.
I see two coaches that had winning records and one coach
that sucked, with the current coach having the best performing teams out of the
3.
Wins | Losses | |
Spielman | 86 | 89 |
Zimmer | 26 | 22 |
Frazier | 21 | 32 |
Childress | 39 | 35 |
Vikings gave up 31 TD's last year or 217 pts including PAT.
72 of those pts (33%!!) can be traced to just 2 really bad games vs Colts and Packers.
Take those out? Pretty damn good D all year with an anemic offense.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/type/team/name/min/minnesota-vikings
@"purplefaithful" said: Vikings gave up 31 TD's last year or 186 pts.72 of those pts (38%!!) can be traced to just 2 really bad games vs Colts and Packers.
Take those out? Pretty damn good D all year with an anemic offense.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/type/team/name/min/minnesota-vikings
That's just it. No way to know what is going to happen at this point. Preseason Vikings look just like they did at the end of last year. But some solid play by the offensive line and good play calling by Shurmur, along with a solution to the slot corner problem on defense, and this team could look like they did at the start of last season, and that was pretty darn good.
We shall soon find out.
@"jargomcfargo" said:@"purplefaithful" said: Vikings gave up 31 TD's last year or 186 pts.72 of those pts (38%!!) can be traced to just 2 really bad games vs Colts and Packers.
Take those out? Pretty damn good D all year with an anemic offense.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/type/team/name/min/minnesota-vikings
That's just it. No way to know what is going to happen at this point. Preseason Vikings look just like they did at the end of last year. But some solid play by the offensive line and good play calling by Shurmur, along with a solution to the slot corner problem on defense, and this team could look like they did at the start of last season, and that was pretty darn good.
We shall soon find out.
Corrected my math after your quote....But yah, I agree with yah! And if they start out hot great, we need to looking at the schedule in Nov/Dec.
@"jargomcfargo" said: Despite all their rhetoric about winning is everything, NFL teams don't need to win to make boatloads of money. Franchises like the Browns, Rams, and several others slip into perpetual mediocrity and their owners continue to thrive. The Vikings are beginning to fall into that category it seems. The Wilf's have made a lot of money. I think they are happy. Sure they would love to win it all, but if they don't, life is good.These guys are all ready loaded, and make most their money outside the NFL, if you don't think they want to win your mistaken.
@"njvike" said:@"comet52" said:@"njvike" said: My question is : Why WOULDN'T Ricky FINALLY be on the hot seat?This is his 12th season in Winter Park. He has ALWAYS been in charge of both College and Professional Scouting departments, and with the title of VICE PRESIDENT OF PLAYER PERSONNEL, I'm guessing he had some input into MOST, if not all, personnel decisions. Call me crazy for coming to that wacky conclusion.
1 playoff win since 2006 is just unacceptable, especially when I keep hearing about what a "winning" organization the Vikings are!! LMAO! They've been the epitome of mediocre this century!
I see that fans defend Saint Richard by focusing on individual draft picks or trades, but ALWAYS overlook the most important statistic.....WINNING.
The vast majority of successful teams have one thing in common : The TEAM exceeds the sum of it's parts. It doesn't matter how many Pro Bowlers you draft or how young/old the roster is. If you don't WIN, it means Jack Schitt.
Hopefully the Wilf's are seeing through his bullshit and will start focusing on his incredible lack of success. No more excuses this year. A deep playoff run or Ricky Gotta Go!!!!
11 years, ONE playoff win. That sucks, end of story.
Putting aside the monotony of your endless one note piano posts about RS, who do you think hired him in the first place and have kept him around for 12 years? This notion that the Wilfs are football guys and they just need to "see through Rick's b.s." is LAUGHABLE. They are the idiots who hired Foley, hired Childress without so much as interviewing another candidate, and then did the same with Les Frazier, and only after 7 years of futility (not including one year of rent-a-Favre which was essentially effed up by their hand picked coach Chili) did they decide to ditch the triangle of stupidity and actually put RS in charge of football operations.Whether you like him as some do, or have some obsessive hatred of him as you do, doesn't really matter, because if your wish that he be gone comes true after this season, you'd better hope that idiot Zygmunt somehow has learned after 12 years of ownership to hire someone better. I don't see it. Be careful what you wish for, you might someone a whole lot worse. And if one playoff win in 12 years is the most important criteria, then why have the brilliant Wilfs you are so confident in sat on their hands for 12 years putting up with that? Maybe the truth is they are mediocre owners and you'll just be crying about the next g.m. they hire after he's failed to make improvements over time.
Lol! Piss off you little weenie.Once again you Ricky fluffers side step his LOSING record.
Spin it any way you want, Schpielman is a documented LOSER. As the Wilf's idol, Bill Parcells, says, " You are what your record says you are"
And in Dicky's case, the record proves he's a loser.
But you Rychophants keep desperately trying to defend him! It's actually become comical....please keep it up, because YOUR one note "Ode to Saint Richard" should be coming to an end following a patented Schpielman Special, aka a .500 season with ZERO playoff wins.
Nighty Nite, Slappy.
I believe Rick's record as GM is41-38-1 once he got full control
And since Zimmer it's
26-22.
That's all you can really state. Anything before 2012 is not solely on Rick.
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