Reason For Worry…. Reason For Hope
The Viking can't avoid the fan's talk of concern. The third preseason game is the true "dress rehearsal" for the regular season, and the Vikings 1st teamers failed that test miserably last night versus the 49ers.
Sure, the team won, when half the players playing in the 4th quarter are those who will be selling insurance next week. However, may of the problems that were evident last season are still here.
THE BAD
Offense:
Stefon Diggs had an unexpected case of the dropsies. He was open, deeper on the field and the ball was placed perfectly. He WILL catch those in the season. The run game looked weak again, even with a more dynamic (at this stage of his career) RB in Dalvin Cook. The offensive line still looks like a work in progress. While Remmers and Reiff are improvements over last year's starters, they are not much better. Reiff gets a bit of a pass, because this was his first action since week one of camp. But, both were soundly beaten at times. Easton looks decent, but is really a backup. When 35 year old journeyman Joe Berger is counted on to start, that is a bad sign. Boone still looks more talk than action on the field. TJ Clemmings ( a very smart individual) remains completely outclassed and should be cut. Willie Beavers seems a wasted pick - he is often out of position and looks lost. Not bad, but it seems Jarius Wright's days are over. He is decent, but the salary is simply too high for a bit player. Please cut Moritz Bohringer - he is a waste of a roster spot. He has improved very little and is quickly passed by rookies.
Defense: I am hoping the result of last night's SF 49er offense continually carving our defense up was due to a bland scheme. Even so, there was simply no pass rush at all, and the only guy who looked like he was ready to play on the 1st unit was Eric Kendricks. Our pass defense was horrid, and our big-dollar CB Rhodes was out of place often, and Trae Waynes was alarmingly slow and out of position too. That won't get it done, especially when they made Brian Hoyer look like an all-pro. Anthony Barr just does not seem to be a factor at all. Some worry about rookie Ben Gideon starting, but it is only 20-25 snaps a game, and he has looked good much of camp. It is a tough spot for a rookie, but not that impactful when he will play 30% of the game.
Special Teams:
Rodney Adams and Jerrick McKinnon looked sharp on the return game. Kicking game was uneven and the punters looked equally average.
The Coaching:
This team was not ready to play on Sunday Night Football, and put on an embarrassing 1st half for fans who paid over $100 per ticket to see them perform. Sure, the team won, but Mike Zimmer is likely to be quite loud in displaying his displeasure in his team's fire and enthusiasm to play. Could Zimmer not calling defensive alignments and plays be the reason the defense looked so bad last night? Or was it just a bland game plan?
THE GOOD
Offense - Pat Elflein looks solid and is likely your starting center, if not in game 1, then by game 5. Danny Isadora "gets it" and will start soon too. Both Rodney Adams and Stacy Coley look worthy of making this squad. Both backup Qbs moved the ball, but even though he won the game Taylor Heinicke's passes floated at the end of their trajectory (especially when he passed off his back foot) and will often get picked in a regular season game when 1st teamers are playing against him. That said, both moved the ball and showed some playing ability, and that is about as much as you can hope for in a backup in the NFL these days. Both will get lots of reps on Thursday. Bucky Hodges also was of note, and is a big target who can get open.
Defense - Eric Kendricks always plays like the house is on fire - in a good way. We saw much more intensity with the 2nd and 3rd units, with Jaleel Johnson, Jayron Kearse and few others sticking out.
The Blah - I have no idea why LaQuon Treadwell is running ahead of Rodney Adams and Stacey Coley. Yes, he caught one last night, but it was a simple zone route. He shows lost no flash. The others can move the chains better. Sam Bradford looked okay, and the Diggs drops did not help his yardage stats (he would have been 19 of 21 for 180+ yards had he caught them), but nothing spectacular.
If the Vikings team that played last night, shows up for the regular season, this is a 5-11 or 6-10 team. There is way too much work to still be done with just 10 days till opening night vs New Orleans. As is, Drew Brees will have a field day with this team. Zimmer has these 10 days to ensure that does not happen.
My GUT CALL? This is an 8-8 team. With some good futune and improvement in the line and run game, this Viking squad is 10-6. With injuries or performances like Sunday night by the starters and it could be a long year. Glad opening day in not tomorrow!
I believe you POPS. I am a huge BROB fan. We have a ton of good players, but if we are transitioning to our younger players (who are getting paid) and they are just trying to do too much, it could really be affecting the team. We need to get things figured out, especially along the O.
All I can say is quit forcing guys to play because of their salary (Boone & Remmers) and let the better players play (Easton & Hill). Our best OL combo right now could very well be (Reiff, Easton, Elflein, Berger, Hill) but its not getting a chance.
@"IDVikingfan" said: Tom, not to nitpick, but Treadwell had 3 catches for 36 yards. Also, Treadwell has the starter throwing passes while Coley and Adams have the more aggressive 2nd and 3rd string QB's throwing passes.That's fair. I would just like to see him run a pattern with some dazzle to it. I expected more from him.
@"1VikesFan" said:He's capable, but he doesn't look excited to play and almost never has enthusiasm. He's a quite guy of the field, but he was more vocal in his rookie year@"Mike Olson" said: It might be time we stop putting Barr on a list of stars for our team. I've been thinking the same thing Mike. It's been awhile since he's looked like a good player, I think he's truly overrated.
Craps me up anyone would want Adams or Coley ahead of Treadwell. Why? Cause they flash playing against 3rd stringers?
Treadwell was tearing up camp until his hammy.
I would suggest we wait until actual games (i.e. not preseason) with apples to apples comparison.
The overreaction to preseason is awesome ;)
There is more to who plays than what we see in a preseason game. The coaches have different goals for these games than fans do.
You often see teams that do great in preseason but not diddly in regular season and vice a versa.
There is a reason for that....
@"twgerber" said:The overreaction to preseason is awesome ;)
There is more to who plays than what we see in a preseason game. The coaches have different goals for these games than fans do.
You often see teams that do great in preseason but not diddly in regular season and vice a versa.
There is a reason for that....
True that we are overreacting. OTOH, fans pay to see these games and so there should be more effort to put decent play and solid effort in the games. I know a lot of coaches are angling to have the number of PS games reduced, and wonder if Zimmer is among them and intentionally treating them as nothing but practices.
IMO, a team coming off the Vikings' dreadful season-end should be acting like they have a lot to prove. Maybe the coaches and players disagree.
Just because the NFL sells tickets for crazy prices doesn't mean the coaches are going to treat them anything close to regular season. Preseason is for working on new concepts, new schemes, etc. By it's nature it will be somewhat practice like.
@"96POPS" said: I'm not worried yet. I know that, especially on defense, we are run a straight up scheme and doing very little of what we will be doing in the regular season. He'll, we are probably even running plays that we won t be running in the regular season.First paragraph, that is why I am not too worried. Difference between rookie coach and one that has the system in place.Brian is one he'll of a smart football player, always knew he was but when these coaches came in, they saw it and taught him even more
Until the past couple of years I had no idea how smart he really was and listening to him about some of the stuff he is doing just blows me away.
Always could tell Brian was smart, love his team game. It sucks not reaping all the rewards and getting pushed out of a starting spot, but his way of playing is why I love watching him. And it would be awesome to watch a game with you and what you have learned from him. I hope he remains impactful on the field this year.
@"twgerber" said: Craps me up anyone would want Adams or Coley ahead of Treadwell. Why? Cause they flash playing against 3rd stringers?Treadwell was tearing up camp until his hammy.
I would suggest we wait until actual games (i.e. not preseason) with apples to apples comparison.
The overreaction to preseason is awesome ;)
There is more to who plays than what we see in a preseason game. The coaches have different goals for these games than fans do.
You often see teams that do great in preseason but not diddly in regular season and vice a versa.
There is a reason for that....
No offense to your take. We were in camp and watching the WRs. Treadwell was NOT tearing it up, he just was more involved than last year. Coley is the better of the 3, and Adams has Patterson-like wiggle. He's not as good as Patterson, but he is good for 10-12 plays a game. More than Wright and maybe more than Treadwell. And we all want Treadwell to prove us wrong. He's got prototypical size.
@"twgerber" said: Just because the NFL sells tickets for crazy prices doesn't mean the coaches are going to treat them anything close to regular season. Preseason is for working on new concepts, new schemes, etc. By it's nature it will be somewhat practice like.Yes, but it is common NFL knowledge that game 3 is a dress rehearsal. I guarantee you that Zimmer did not say, "Okay defense, let's shit our pants out there in front of our fans and national TV, cuz its only a preseason game. And offense, do nothing". It is not life and death, but the 3rd preseason game is key. Whoever is in front at the half is a good gauge, as those are the opening day starters. Our team looked like it was the first preseason game.
Playing hard and executing is different that putting in exotic scheme to win.
I wasn't in camp all I could do is read the reports. If Coley and Adams were clearly better than Treadwell wouldnt' the coaches move them up the depth chart? And as far as preseason games they aren't playing against the #1's of the opponent. So hard to compare in many ways.
@"Tom Moore" said:@"twgerber" said: Just because the NFL sells tickets for crazy prices doesn't mean the coaches are going to treat them anything close to regular season. Preseason is for working on new concepts, new schemes, etc. By it's nature it will be somewhat practice like. Yes, but it is common NFL knowledge that game 3 is a dress rehearsal. I guarantee you that Zimmer did not say, "Okay defense, let's shit our pants out there in front of our fans and national TV, cuz its only a preseason game. And offense, do nothing". It is not life and death, but the 3rd preseason game is key. Whoever is in front at the half is a good gauge, as those are the opening day starters. Our team looked like it was the first preseason game.Playing hard and executing is different that putting in exotic scheme to win.
Oh I agree execution was bad 1st half. However it's not a thing you can really extrapolate to regular season success. I think history proves the score and preseason record of a team doesn't mean much to the regular season record.Would we all like to have seen better play? Yes absolutely. Would make us all feel better. Don't know you can say that is indicative to how they WILL play. It does make me nervous but I've been watching Vikings long enough to know not to read too much into preseason.
Teams also don't really do any scheming for their opponent even in game 3. It's more about their own schemes. At least that is what I have always read.
@"Tom Moore" said:@"twgerber" said: Craps me up anyone would want Adams or Coley ahead of Treadwell. Why? Cause they flash playing against 3rd stringers?Treadwell was tearing up camp until his hammy.
I would suggest we wait until actual games (i.e. not preseason) with apples to apples comparison.
The overreaction to preseason is awesome ;)
There is more to who plays than what we see in a preseason game. The coaches have different goals for these games than fans do.
You often see teams that do great in preseason but not diddly in regular season and vice a versa.
There is a reason for that....
No offense to your take. We were in camp and watching the WRs. Treadwell was NOT tearing it up, he just was more involved than last year. Coley is the better of the 3, and Adams has Patterson-like wiggle. He's not as good as Patterson, but he is good for 10-12 plays a game. More than Wright and maybe more than Treadwell. And we all want Treadwell to prove us wrong. He's got prototypical size.
I would concur on this as well. I don't know that I can remember a memorable day by Treadwell that I was there. Now maybe it was before we got there. But I'd have to say that he was fairly lackluster. I would Love to see the kid flourish as Tom says he has the size.
@"twgerber" said: I wasn't in camp all I could do is read the reports. If Coley and Adams were clearly better than Treadwell wouldnt' the coaches move them up the depth chart? And as far as preseason games they aren't playing against the #1's of the opponent. So hard to compare in many ways.Treadwell is a #1 pick. They want him to turn the corner, so they will give him every rep they can. If I were to rank the WRs where they belong in order (and they all play different wideout positions), it would be 1) Diggs, 2) Thielen, 3) Floyd (he has not been #1 impressive yet), 4) Coley 5) Adams 6) Wright, 7) Treadwell 8) Freuchte.
I suspect the depth chart looks like this for now 1) Diggs 2) Theilen 3) Floyd 4) Treadwell 5) Coley 6) Adams 7) Wright 8 Freuchte
@"twgerber" said: I wasn't in camp all I could do is read the reports. If Coley and Adams were clearly better than Treadwell wouldnt' the coaches move them up the depth chart?Not necessarily. They are going to try and get anything they can out of Treadwell because of where he was selected. As fans we'd love to see "The best man for the job" thing play out but that simply isn't how it's going to work. If they need to cut bait on a guy that they thought was a good bet at his draft position they need to KNOW that it is time to cut bait. Likewise if they are going to keep him they need to know where they are going to use him in the starting offense.
@"twgerber" said: I wasn't in camp all I could do is read the reports. If Coley and Adams were clearly better than Treadwell wouldnt' the coaches move them up the depth chart? And as far as preseason games they aren't playing against the #1's of the opponent. So hard to compare in many ways.well even in camp, weren't Coley and Adams running against the 3s while Tread was running against the 1s? Saw Tread make some catches against Rhodes for sure. So yes, hard to compare them.
@"Tom Moore" said:Playing hard and executing is different that putting in exotic scheme to win.
Big difference is that SF used exotic schemes and played hard and executed. Our guys mostly played hard, but execution was happening and we certainly didn't scheme. So I don't take much from the game honestly.
Maybe there was exotic schemes and maybe there wasn't... I don't know. I just know that almost every play for their first string offense was significant positive yardage. At least until into the second quarter. Now we DID force them to punt three times.... So that's good and maybe Zimmer decided to start playing against them instead of going solely vanilla, but the first quarter they were just ripping off huge chunks of yardage. I was pretty down on the team last night. And I think a lot of it was for good reason, but looking at the plays and how the half wore on, I could make the argument that perhaps Zimmer got the D to settle down, or maybe the 49ers offense dialed it back. I'm not sure which happened, but that first quarter was atrocious. The funny thing is that it looks like they were averaging 2.7 yards per carry so our Run defense actually wasn't too bad at all. The pass defense early on wasn't good. It was bad. Then we got some incompletes to help out in the second quarter. BUt we were averaging 9.25 yards per pass play even including the incompletions. Yuck.
Here's their plays
Run 5 yards
Pass 10 yards
Run 2 yards
Pass 16 yards
Pass 46 yards - Touchdown
Run 3 yards
Run 3 yards
Pass 15 yards
Run 2 yards
Pass 14 yards
Pass 5 yards
Pass 16 yards
Pass 6 yards
Run 0 yards
Pass 24 yards Touchdown
Pass Incomplete
Run 7 yards
Pass Incomplete
Punt
Pass Incomplete
Pass 13 yards
Run -1 yards
Pass 8 yards
Pass Incomplete
Punt
Pass Incomplete
Pass 3 yards
Pass -9 yards (Sack)
Punt
Oh I agree, it looked awful. Just not sure how much I put into it.
@"greediron" said: Oh I agree, it looked awful. Just not sure how much I put into it.
Yeah the only thing I try to take away from it is "did they have confidence and competence?" I didn't get that feeling last night, but then again we could see something totally different come opening day. It's natural to look at what it was and say it is what it is, but the truth I guess is that IT may not be THAT when we get to the regular season. See.... my optimism is already being refilled.
@"greediron" said: Oh I agree, it looked awful. Just not sure how much I put into it.
I think if they were going to throw a stinker up there, this was the time to do it. This will have gotten Zimmer's attention and I'd rather him make adjustment now, that face a SF opener like we had a few years ago and buzz-sawed by a shitty 49er team on opening night.
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