Dead Weight: Whose Salaries Are Holding Teams Back Most in 2017?

Some fans don't want to give Brez as much credit as he deserves...  but if you want proof he is a good cap guy...  Look at those freaking contracts for Kalil and Okung compared to some of the big money deals we've handed out recently to Reiff, Remmers, Rhodes, Griffen, and Joseph. 

I've always had an appreciation for the guy. In spite of my argument that Brez has had it pretty easy without a franchise QB to contract around. But he's certainly going to be earning that check now -  looking forward the next few years. 

I've said for years that the success of the team has rode squarely on the shoulders of Brez and Sugarman... we have two of the best in the league at their respective positions.

@"JimmyinSD" said: I've said for years that the success of the team has rode squarely on the shoulders of Brez and Sugarman... we have two of the best in the league at their respective positions.

@"Mike Olson" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I've said for years that the success of the team has rode squarely on the shoulders of Brez and Sugarman... we have two of the best in the league at their respective positions.

While that is true... the success part hasn't manifested itself yet. 

I have no arguments about Brzezinski, but what is the basis for all the Sugarman love? Is it built completely upon the recovery of Adrian Peterson from his 2011 knee injury? OK, that's one success - but what if it had more to do with Peterson's healing ability and recovery effort, and any competent trainer would have been sufficient. What else? Well, he gets credit for EJ Henderson recovering for a while. But after those two, I can think of a pretty large number of Vikings who could not come back from injuries: Sidney Rice, Phil Loadholt, Brandon Fusco, John Sullivan, Sharrif Floyd, Greg Childs, Antonio Richardson. OK, those last two were never productive in the NFL, but Sugarman's fans claimed that both were going to be steals due to his skill. Bridgewater and Treadwell are TBD. Kalil was allegedly injured for 4 seasons.

Maybe Sugarman has a bunch of success stories I have forgotten - so please remind me.

Every time the Vikings disappoint, the #1 cause most fans cite is "injuries", and some have made cases that we suffer more than the typical franchise, or at least those which win more divisions and playoff games. If that's the case, how long does the head trainer deserve to keep being lauded as one of the best?

Zach Parise ...

:o wrong board.

Sorry, no love from me for either RS or Brez . 

@"96POPS" said: Sorry, no love from me for either RS or Brea. 

You re right Jor-El. 11 year story. It would take too long. Lol
Let's just say it's the ugliness of this business. I'm not real happy about it but I won't air dirty laundry.

That sucks Pops...hope it all works out in the end.

@"96POPS" said: You re right Jor-El. 11 year story. It would take too long. Lol Let's just say it's the ugliness of this business. I'm not real happy about it but I won't air dirty laundry.

I take it as another sign that the perspectives and stories presented to us (fans) are all carefully crafted by the team to create an image that isn't always real.

@"Jor-El" said: I take it as another sign that the perspectives and stories presented to us (fans) are all carefully crafted by the team to create an image that isn't always real.

@"Jor-El" said: I take it as another sign that the perspectives and stories presented to us (fans) are all carefully crafted by the team to create an image that isn't always real.

I think there are 2 issues here.  The NFL/Owners have a strong grip on the power structure.  They control the narrative and thereby much of the perception. 

The second issue is the discrepancy in contracts.  The select few stars get some pretty crazy money.  The rest, not so much.  Sure, the mid range guys do much better than an average working joe, but their careers are short and it is tough on the body.  And compared to what the NFL is raking in, they are underpaid.  But the narrative is always about the mega stars and their bloated contracts.  Or the busts that were grossly overpaid.  Don't see many stories about the long time contributing vet that gets cut to save a few hundred thousand, those stories just aren't compelling. 

So we get to hear the nice stories about Greenway getting paid and retiring a Viking.  But there are many others whose careers have been "managed" and kept at below market costs. 

@"greediron" said:

@"Jor-El" said: I take it as another sign that the perspectives and stories presented to us (fans) are all carefully crafted by the team to create an image that isn't always real.

If there is money involved, you can bet there is an image being molded, constructed and managed. 

I think there are 2 issues here.  The NFL/Owners have a strong grip on the power structure.  They control the narrative and thereby much of the perception. 

The second issue is the discrepancy in contracts.  The select few stars get some pretty crazy money.  The rest, not so much.  Sure, the mid range guys do much better than an average working joe, but their careers are short and it is tough on the body.  And compared to what the NFL is raking in, they are underpaid.  But the narrative is always about the mega stars and their bloated contracts.  Or the busts that were grossly overpaid.  Don't see many stories about the long time contributing vet that gets cut to save a few hundred thousand, those stories just aren't compelling. 

So we get to hear the nice stories about Greenway getting paid and retiring a Viking.  But there are many others whose careers have been "managed" and kept at below market costs. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

IIRC Greenway took pay cuts his last 3 years to stay a Viking,  he also signed for less money in Minny twice to stay here... regardless of the spin its a nice story,  was he happy to take the pay cuts... not likely, but he had options and he chose to stay in minny.  

business is business,  some guys get better stats but for some reason the fans love the other guy,  and for the owners its not just about wins and losses, its about selling the other shit and if a slightly lesser player puts more butts in the seats and generates other sales... he is likely to get paid more or be less likely to be asked to restructure.  we all know that Allen was paid his full contract... but was that because they didnt ask him to help the team out,  or was it because they did and he refused to help the team?

there is an old saying in business...  you have to fuck your friends because your enemies wouldnt let you get away with it...  not saying I agree with it,  but it seems to be a cold hard fact the older I get.

It is business.  But what I am saying is, the perception is the general NFL player is grossly overpaid.  I don't think that is true.  There are a few, but most don't make huge sums over their career, at least not in comparison to what the NFL is pulling in.  As to your analogy, I think the NFL is screwing anyone it can, friend, enemy or indifferent.  Fans, many players, casual observers...  They do it because they are the big dog and most won't complain as long as they get to count the NFL as their "friend".

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

IIRC Greenway took pay cuts his last 3 years to stay a Viking,  he also signed for less money in Minny twice to stay here... regardless of the spin its a nice story,  was he happy to take the pay cuts... not likely, but he had options and he chose to stay in minny.  

business is business,  some guys get better stats but for some reason the fans love the other guy,  and for the owners its not just about wins and losses, its about selling the other shit and if a slightly lesser player puts more butts in the seats and generates other sales... he is likely to get paid more or be less likely to be asked to restructure.  we all know that Allen was paid his full contract... but was that because they didnt ask him to help the team out,  or was it because they did and he refused to help the team?

there is an old saying in business...  you have to fuck your friends because your enemies wouldnt let you get away with it...  not saying I agree with it,  but it seems to be a cold hard fact the older I get.

Thought Greenway got an extension to stay in his last 3 years.  I could be wrong on that tho.  I do think he took a cut perhaps the last year.

It is business.  But what I am saying is, the perception is the general NFL player is grossly overpaid.  I don't think that is true.  There are a few, but most don't make huge sums over their career, at least not in comparison to what the NFL is pulling in.  As to your analogy, I think the NFL is screwing anyone it can, friend, enemy or indifferent.  Fans, many players, casual observers...  They do it because they are the big dog and most won't complain as long as they get to count the NFL as their "friend".

Good discourse above. Really interesting point about how much publicity a top-pick bust receives. I wonder if stories about Jamarcus Russel, Ryan Leaf, et al are encouraged to reinforce the image of a few players making off with piles of owners' money? 

Meanwhile the 30-for-30 Broke documentary has made most people believe that any former NFL player who doesn't live like Rockefeller must have wasted his wealth on bad friends, drugs, or foolish investments or worse.