Diggs "It's the same S*** every week."

Take out Wilson's 40 yard run after the FG block, and they average 4.2 yards per carry.  Same as Dalvin did.  But Dalvin got 13 carries.

@"FSUVike" said: Um, giving up 5 yards up the gut on every damn run until the opponent gets into the RedZone and you finally buckle down is not good Defense.

Wanna know why?

1. You know your Offense is sputtering and needs as many possessions as possible to get some positive momentum. But instead of generating a 3 & Out you keep giving up long drives that eat up the clock.

2.  You have far more assets invested in that side of the ball. Where are the turnovers? The Defensive scores? For a Defense First type of team you aren't producing much in the way of game changing moments like the Bears or Ravens.

3. Joseph and Richardson are allegedly Elite Interior D-Linemen, everybody loves Kendricks, and you can't stop getting run on right up the fucking gut, play after play, game after game.

4.  Ben Gedeon falls for every single misdirection. Every single time. Fuck that dude.

Sorry, there are 3 Units in Football and Minnesota threw most of their eggs into the Defensive one. Giving up over 200 yards on the ground to a team missing a major receiving threat is a joke.

This was before the game...

The defense had 3 3-outs last night including the Seahawks first drive of the game and at the Seahawks like 2 yard line, giving the offense very good field position.

You can also check out the defense compared to the rest of the NFL here:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsdef

It wasn't the defense. Some fans want to make this rocket science. 

Holding the Hawks to 6 points in Seattle until there are under 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter is pretty great IMO.  Wilson had 70 yards passing last night, Brees had 120 earlier this year.  Rodgers was under 200 two weeks ago.  The defense played great overall.

Some of you must not remember how terrible our defense had been for most of the past 25+ years before Zimmer came along.

Year after year we tout the exploits of our D linemen...Griffin, Jared, BRob, Danielle, Weatherly, Joseph, Sheldon...et al.  But the stiffs we put to protect our largest investment most could not point out with a team directory. 
Five guys are the base of the whole offense and yet we spend pennies on the dollar on journeymen and rookies.

Here's a couple more ranking for the defense NFL Matchup just put out...

I don't think it's the defense.

Great Defenses are helping the Bears & Ravens WIN games. The Vikings Defense is keeping them IN games. As a Roster Construction enthusiast that's not good enough for me when I look at how much resources have been invested in one side of the ball vs. the other.

You all feel differently and are giving the Defense a pass. Fine. I'm not. And my biggest pet peeve remains teams running the ball straight up the gut.

Seriously, I hate getting run on up the middle like Sauron hates hobbits. Like Sheer Khan hates fire. Like Eleven hates men in lab coats. Like Thanos hates 50% of life.

And when you contrast that with Minnesota's inability to run in between the Tackles it becomes that much more frustrating.

@"FSUVike" said: Great Defenses are helping the Bears & Ravens WIN games. The Vikings Defense is keeping them IN games. As a Roster Construction enthusiast that's not good enough for me when I look at how much resources have been invested in one side of the ball vs. the other.

You all feel differently and are giving the Defense a pass. Fine. I'm not. And my biggest pet peeve remains teams running the ball straight up the gut.

Seriously, I hate getting run on up the middle like Sauron hates hobbits. Like Sheer Khan hates fire. Like Eleven hates men in lab coats. Like Thanos hates 50% of life.

And when you contrast that with Minnesota's inability to run in between the Tackles it becomes that much more frustrating.

I hate that as well.  It is very frustrating watching that, and then seeing guys sucking in and getting burned on the edge.
But I will repeat, that isn't what is killing our team.  With the rules geared towards passing, our D seems to have chosen to limit the offenses and make them work for it.  Look at it this way.  Seattle is a power running team.  What usually happens when a power running team is having its way and has a lead.  They keep running and wear the D down.  But what actually happened Monday night?  Our D adjusted and shut down their run in the second half.
Every D has weaknesses.  You can't play every possibility.  So it seems we have chosen to force teams to grind it out and then when they get impatient, we capitalize and stop them.

@"FSUVike" said: Great Defenses are helping the Bears & Ravens WIN games. The Vikings Defense is keeping them IN games. As a Roster Construction enthusiast that's not good enough for me when I look at how much resources have been invested in one side of the ball vs. the other.

You all feel differently and are giving the Defense a pass. Fine. I'm not. And my biggest pet peeve remains teams running the ball straight up the gut.

Seriously, I hate getting run on up the middle like Sauron hates hobbits. Like Sheer Khan hates fire. Like Eleven hates men in lab coats. Like Thanos hates 50% of life.

And when you contrast that with Minnesota's inability to run in between the Tackles it becomes that much more frustrating.

If the offense could score some points, maybe we'd see the defense be able to make more game changing plays...  we can go back and forth like this all day.
Bottom line, the Vikings aren't playing complimentary football.  Look how many times we've gotten good field position from a 3 and out or a turnover and then the offensive has failed to capitalize.  Or on the flip side, we drive down and score a TD and then the defense gives up a long scoring drive.  We had some great energy last year where it seemed like the offense fed off the defense and vice versa. 
That isn't happening this year...  I think a lot of that is because we don't have an offensive identity.  We won a bunch of games the past 3 seasons by being a good running team and making big plays off play-action.  Then we go out and pay a bunch of money to a QB that excels at play-action and is known as an accurate deep passer...  what do we do?  Change the offense to throw 70% of the time and completely abandon the running game for long stretches of the season.
You can gripe all you want about the defense, but this team doesn't have any balance on offense and isn't playing to our QB's strengths. 

@"FSUVike" said: Great Defenses are helping the Bears & Ravens WIN games. The Vikings Defense is keeping them IN games. As a Roster Construction enthusiast that's not good enough for me when I look at how much resources have been invested in one side of the ball vs. the other.

You all feel differently and are giving the Defense a pass. Fine. I'm not. And my biggest pet peeve remains teams running the ball straight up the gut.

Seriously, I hate getting run on up the middle like Sauron hates hobbits. Like Sheer Khan hates fire. Like Eleven hates men in lab coats. Like Thanos hates 50% of life.

And when you contrast that with Minnesota's inability to run in between the Tackles it becomes that much more frustrating.

I don't have anything for "straight up the gut", I'm sure there's something out there, but I'm not looking it up.  Here's rushing on 1st down though.

Look, fan "perception" is just not reality.  Everything can't be viewed in a vacuum.  

I think by the end I could be looking for one of these.
This season ranks a 9 for weird $h!t going on. A season to forget.
Flashy thing it all away... please.

I know its frustrating to see the way our often historically vaunted  run defense has been getting gashed lately,  but its bound to happen,  with the league putting more emphasis on the passing game, with rules created to support the O and hinder the D,  teams are forced to put more defensive assets on the field to counter the passing game,  which then results in better opportunities to pick up yards with the run.  I am sure Zimmer could put a scheme together to kill teams on first down runs and to really take away a teams ability to run at all, but then that would expose the passing game to more deep threats which lead to more scoring for the inept O to over come.  yes they are getting run on,  but so is the rest of the league,  it the way the game is going today.

Don't get me wrong. I'm actually very much still into the season. I'm more commenting on the weirdness of it all. Started with letting all the QB's go before we sign one. That was a nervous week. I know every expert said it was a done deal. I know better then that. Or thought so. Nervous to high.  A coach unexpectedly dies. Back to low. Then in season. The defensive captain has a mental breakdown. Getting beat at home by a 17 point underdog. A tie game. Missing 2 OT field goals that should have beaten the hated Packers. Now firing a coordinator mid season.  We've had alot of stuff going on for one year. Made all the harder by the how last year ended.  We had a Super Bowl game hosted by my birthplace. I couldn't even watch it. I didn't care if it was the undeserving awful Eagles fans or the entitlement Patriots.  I usaully find one team to root for or against. That didn't work this year. 1st SB I didn't watch in memory. It's been an unusual year for  a fan that's used being snake bit. 

@"silverjoel" said:

@"FSUVike" said: Great Defenses are helping the Bears & Ravens WIN games. The Vikings Defense is keeping them IN games. As a Roster Construction enthusiast that's not good enough for me when I look at how much resources have been invested in one side of the ball vs. the other.

You all feel differently and are giving the Defense a pass. Fine. I'm not. And my biggest pet peeve remains teams running the ball straight up the gut.

Seriously, I hate getting run on up the middle like Sauron hates hobbits. Like Sheer Khan hates fire. Like Eleven hates men in lab coats. Like Thanos hates 50% of life.

And when you contrast that with Minnesota's inability to run in between the Tackles it becomes that much more frustrating.

I don't have anything for "straight up the gut", I'm sure there's something out there, but I'm not looking it up.  Here's rushing on 1st down though.

Look, fan "perception" is just not reality.  Everything can't be viewed in a vacuum.  

For what it's worth, the Seahags had a 3.5 minute advantage in time of possession.  That- by itself- doesn't feel like a "dagger" to our team.  I was wondering if Seattle's proficiency in the run game equaled a more lop-sided time-of-possession.  Not really.
I will say this though: Seattle screwed up big time by passing on 2nd down.  Any pass on 2nd down was a waste.  They could've gotten first downs all game long, just by running the ball twice in a row.  When they decided to pass on 2nd and 5... and then again on 3rd and 5... it was a gift to our defense.  If I were a Seahag fan, I'd be ticked off that they didn't run the ball more.

@"pumpf" said: For what it's worth, the Seahags had a 3.5 minute advantage in time of possession.  That- by itself- doesn't feel like a "dagger" to our team.  I was wondering if Seattle's proficiency in the run game equaled a more lop-sided time-of-possession.  Not really. I will say this though: Seattle screwed up big time by passing on 2nd down.  Any pass on 2nd down was a waste.  They could've gotten first downs all game long, just by running the ball twice in a row.  When they decided to pass on 2nd and 5... and then again on 3rd and 5... it was a gift to our defense.  If I were a Seahag fan, I'd be ticked off that they didn't run the ball more.

I looked at the run average.  Taking away wilson's big scramble, they only averaged 4.0 a carry, same as Cooks had.

@"holmanjp" said:

@"silverjoel" said:

@"FSUVike" said: Great Defenses are helping the Bears & Ravens WIN games. The Vikings Defense is keeping them IN games. As a Roster Construction enthusiast that's not good enough for me when I look at how much resources have been invested in one side of the ball vs. the other.

You all feel differently and are giving the Defense a pass. Fine. I'm not. And my biggest pet peeve remains teams running the ball straight up the gut.

Seriously, I hate getting run on up the middle like Sauron hates hobbits. Like Sheer Khan hates fire. Like Eleven hates men in lab coats. Like Thanos hates 50% of life.

And when you contrast that with Minnesota's inability to run in between the Tackles it becomes that much more frustrating.

I don't have anything for "straight up the gut", I'm sure there's something out there, but I'm not looking it up.  Here's rushing on 1st down though.

Look, fan "perception" is just not reality.  Everything can't be viewed in a vacuum.  

Do they one off these for 2nd down?

@"greediron" said:

@"pumpf" said: For what it's worth, the Seahags had a 3.5 minute advantage in time of possession.  That- by itself- doesn't feel like a "dagger" to our team.  I was wondering if Seattle's proficiency in the run game equaled a more lop-sided time-of-possession.  Not really. I will say this though: Seattle screwed up big time by passing on 2nd down.  Any pass on 2nd down was a waste.  They could've gotten first downs all game long, just by running the ball twice in a row.  When they decided to pass on 2nd and 5... and then again on 3rd and 5... it was a gift to our defense.  If I were a Seahag fan, I'd be ticked off that they didn't run the ball more.

I looked at the run average.  Taking away wilson's big scramble, they only averaged 4.0 a carry, same as Cooks had.

@"suncoastvike" said: Don't get me wrong. I'm actually very much still into the season. I'm more commenting on the weirdness of it all. Started with letting all the QB's go before we sign one. That was a nervous week. I know every expert said it was a done deal. I know better then that. Or thought so. Nervous to high.  A coach unexpectedly dies. Back to low. Then in season. The defensive captain has a mental breakdown. Getting beat at home by a 17 point underdog. A tie game. Missing 2 OT field goals that should have beaten the hated Packers. Now firing a coordinator mid season.  We've had alot of stuff going on for one year. Made all the harder by the how last year ended.  We had a Super Bowl game hosted by my birthplace. I couldn't even watch it. I didn't care if it was the undeserving awful Eagles fans or the entitlement Patriots.  I usaully find one team to root for or against. That didn't work this year. 1st SB I didn't watch in memory. It's been an unusual year for  a fan that's used being snake bit. 

That is our Vikings though it seems. It is always something. I don't know if there is such a thing as a normal year with this franchise. Well at least we're not the Browns. :/

@"silverjoel" said:

@"FSUVike" said: Great Defenses are helping the Bears & Ravens WIN games. The Vikings Defense is keeping them IN games. As a Roster Construction enthusiast that's not good enough for me when I look at how much resources have been invested in one side of the ball vs. the other.

You all feel differently and are giving the Defense a pass. Fine. I'm not. And my biggest pet peeve remains teams running the ball straight up the gut.

Seriously, I hate getting run on up the middle like Sauron hates hobbits. Like Sheer Khan hates fire. Like Eleven hates men in lab coats. Like Thanos hates 50% of life.

And when you contrast that with Minnesota's inability to run in between the Tackles it becomes that much more frustrating.

I don't have anything for "straight up the gut", I'm sure there's something out there, but I'm not looking it up.  Here's rushing on 1st down though.

Look, fan "perception" is just not reality.  Everything can't be viewed in a vacuum.