I am very fan torn...

purplefaithful wrote:
One the one hand, we have a top 10 pick in JJM with great traits and I still think an uber high ceiling

On the other hand (to quote MB) did the football gods just do the Vikings a rare solid to have another top 3 QB cut loose waiting to be resurrected?

I'm just glad FA isnt that far off anymore...

I'll shake both hands just to be sure. I like JJ's potential. I still believe he's going develop into our franchise QB. I'm just not convinced that's going to happen as early as 2026.

One would think if KOC saw all this "potential" he would squash all these rumors regarding strengthening the QB room. JJM belongs somewhere in the NFL. Just not the Vikings future

purplefaithful wrote:
One the one hand, we have a top 10 pick in JJM with great traits and I still think an uber high ceiling

On the other hand (to quote MB) did the football gods just do the Vikings a rare solid to have another top 3 QB cut loose waiting to be resurrected?

I'm just glad FA isnt that far off anymore...

Because of KMs salary, it not one or the other like it was with Darnold last year, we can have both and then truly have the best option play out.

Still Hurtn wrote:
One would think if KOC saw all this "potential" he would squash all these rumors regarding strengthening the QB room. JJM belongs somewhere in the NFL. Just not the Vikings future

...I'm curious what makes this level of quitting on the kid attractive.

Seriously, the difference in his play from early to late in the season showed obvious improvement...and he was our starting QB for our first victory against Detroit in years.

I don't get the quitters.

StickierBuns wrote:

I can understand this a little more than the fans that think benching JJM for another QB1 because you think the team roster is 'loaded' is fine because he's got a future with the team. That isn't going to happen. When is the last time a top 10 QB selection started a full year, then the team sat him a year because his play sucked, then he came back the following year to be the 'franchise QB'? Never is the answer. And it won't happen in Minnesota if that's what they end up doing. The kid needs reps, KOC has said as much, and you're just going to gut another year of starter reps and push back his continued development? 

The math is simple IMO: Kyler Murray coming to Minnesota is bub bye to JJ McCarthy as a long term answer. I don't get how the organization could give up on him already, but I'm not on the Viking's coaching staff. Kyler isn't signing anywhere to be QB2. Of course we'll all get some big time Coachspeak from KOC on how this doesn't change 'at all how we feel about JJ McCarthy's status with the team', blah blah blah. Riiiight. Murray is also no leader, there's going to be 0% mentorship or learning moments behind him. He's talented however....no escaping that fact.

Before I get my panties in a bunch, lets see what actually happens. I'll get behind whatever the team ends up doing, but I think there's a right way to do this and it doesn't involve giving up on McCarthy. I'll say this: there is so much smoke about Murray to the Vikings, that if it doesn't happen, the whole NFL media industry are bigger frauds than I thought.

I think it's important for everyone to realize that the Vikings haven't even spoken to Kyler Murray or his agent. It's not legal to do so until league year. In no way should this be considered a foregone conclusion. And Geno Smith is a really good option as well. 

I've read several posts now from people who argue that signing Murray means the end of McCarthy's time in Minnesota, but I've yet to hear anyone explain why they think that in a convincing way. So curious, why do you think that? 

In one of my rants, bitching about the fact that we didn't sign Darnold to a two-year deal, you said that Darnold would not have accepted a two-year deal. You were exactly right. He would not have. And neither will Murray. If we do sign Murray, he will either be a rousing success, an utter failure or something in between. In only one of those scenarios do I see the Vikings trading McCarthy: the rousing success. And if that’s the case, why would we even care?

I'm not of the mind that a QB is being brought in to be the unquestionable starter. I don't think there's a QB thats available where you think to yourself, "That's the guy I want to hitch my wagon to for years" Kyler Murray makes sense to me in the context of one year, he's really cheap and he's pretty good, relative to everything else. I don't think he's really a scheme fit. KOC is going to want his QB to stand in the pocket, make the right read, and hit the open guy where KOC planned for him to be open at. How does KOC feel about the less structured approach? What's everyone ragging on JJM about? Being injured all the time. Kyler has that problem too. He's been injured more than available 3 of the last 4 years.

What I think we have is an imperfect situation, where KOC needs to field a competitive team. The Wilfs want us competitive every year. KOC was promised to be a QB whisperer. I think KOC just needs insurance in the case that JJM doesn't take the necessary next steps. I don't think the Wilfs really want to spend huge dollars this year after spending so much money laster year. I think we'll see a real competition. I think JJM will win the competition, but the veteran will have a real shot at winning. I think JJM will show enough that we want to see what happens in the regular season. I think that if JJM doesn't play well enough after half a season the insurance plan will come in, and they'll try to make a playoff run with a guy like Kyler.

StickierBuns wrote:

Yeah, I know we disagree on this. I think I've explained it the best I can in previous posts, but its mostly because he's already played a year as a starter. That's not how it was with either Aaron Rodgers or Jordan Love. They sat.....they then were placed as starters....and they became QB1. So they were starting from a complete different place of hope and comfort....no prior baggage to bring BACK into the starter's role which you would with JJM. You are benching JJ McCarthy when you do this with Murray. You're saying you aren't good enough, we gave you a shot. Its a completely different dynamic. And I don't see Minnesota trading McCarthy, he'd be QB2 this year and maybe next year. But never again The Man. You can't put the toothpaste back in the container. IMO.

I totally agree about Kyler signing a one year deal, for sure....he wants his next big pay day and contract. Arizona has that covered this year, if he does very well, Minnesota will have the next one covered because no way they let him walk like they did Uncle Sammy and Daniel Jones, who by the way are the perfect QBs for KOC's offense.

There is an argument to be made that a year on the bench could be the best thing for JJ McCarthy. I keep coming back to what Darnold said about his year on the bench in San Fran, that it was the best thing he ever did. Baker Mayfield said something similar about his year on the bench with the Rams. Malik Willis sitting for a couple years has resulted in him being ranked the NFL's #1 free agent QB. Those guys did it with new teams, but that doesn't have to be the case with JJ. 

Yeah, it's no secret that KOC loves the big guys. Darnold, Jones, Maye...all big, sturdy QBs. And we're going to go from that to a toddler running with mom's cellphone? It does seem odd. But if we are indeed interested in Murray, it's probably because KOC knows that both he and Murray can make some adjustments to meet in the middle, and how might a Kyler/Jefferson combo stress a defense? How might it improve our running game, when the defense has to keep an eye on the toddler? I know I'd be at least intrigued.

I agree that it's NOT a forgone conclusion Murray ends-up in MN. I personally think it's a long-shot but the upside is interesting to say the least. Would we get a 2009 redux? Or might it be 2010? In between?

I'm not convinced that at this time in his brief career, JJM needs a year on the bench over reps???

With KAM gone we're going to get a much clearer pix as to how KOC feels about JJM progress to-date. Back to the op, so glad FA isnt that far off.

NEVER a dull off-season for the Vikings.

I've gone back and forth on this issue since it became a discussion point.

I thought that Cousins was a solid backup option that would be a better option to win games if JJM got injured (again) or sucked.
Now I think different, if only because there are better options now.

Looking at different organizations, different coaching options, different teammates, you can see where Geno Smith did not have a good season with the Raiders after having a career year in Seattle with a 70.4% completion percentage in 2024. This bothers me about his only season with the Raiders: the veteran signal-caller would go on to pace the NFL in interceptions (17) and sacks taken (55). Horrible OL? Don't know.

You can see that Kyler Murray had strong initial years with Arizona, two out of the last three years he was mostly injured. At 5'10" is he too small to absorb hits from 300 lb linemen? But he's a 68-69% passer the past two seasons (25 was shortened by injury) and threw for almost 3,900 yards in 24. He's still young (29 before the season starts...we share the same birthday), although there is that lingering issue of him not studying (remember the hubub that the Cardinals were going to put X hours a week in his latest contract extension before they dropped it)? Could KOC convert him like he taught Danny Dimes the importance of preparedness?

Then there's this obvious stat: In 2026, Kyler Murray will earn a base salary of $22,835,000 and a roster bonus of $17,000,000, along with a workout bonus of $1,857,500. His total compensation for that year includes a cap hit of $52,660,677. And Arizona is on the hook to pay it regardless.
And Murray probably will do a Russell Wilson league minimum while AZ pays his inflated salary.
Both of these two are above Marcus Mariota, Mac Jones, Jimmy Garappolo.

Of all the options, I say don't trade JJM, let him season a bit more. I am leaning toward a one year "prove it" contract for KM, with a year team-option. I am no longer of the mindset to let JJM go learn-on-the-job and show us, while we get a capable backup (that would be a Cousins, in my mind), I am of the opinion now to try to sign KM at the league minimum (which has a massive cap space positive impact), and let them battle it out, assuming that KM will win the starting job this year. Will JJM be happy? No but I want to win now.

I am throwing my support behind whatever choice Brez and KOC think will put us in a win-now mode.

StickierBuns wrote:

I can understand this a little more than the fans that think benching JJM for another QB1 because you think the team roster is 'loaded' is fine because he's got a future with the team. That isn't going to happen. When is the last time a top 10 QB selection started a full year, then the team sat him a year because his play sucked, then he came back the following year to be the 'franchise QB'? Never is the answer. And it won't happen in Minnesota if that's what they end up doing. The kid needs reps, KOC has said as much, and you're just going to gut another year of starter reps and push back his continued development? 

The math is simple IMO: Kyler Murray coming to Minnesota is bub bye to JJ McCarthy as a long term answer. I don't get how the organization could give up on him already, but I'm not on the Viking's coaching staff. Kyler isn't signing anywhere to be QB2. Of course we'll all get some big time Coachspeak from KOC on how this doesn't change 'at all how we feel about JJ McCarthy's status with the team', blah blah blah. Riiiight. Murray is also no leader, there's going to be 0% mentorship or learning moments behind him. He's talented however....no escaping that fact.

Before I get my panties in a bunch, lets see what actually happens. I'll get behind whatever the team ends up doing, but I think there's a right way to do this and it doesn't involve giving up on McCarthy. I'll say this: there is so much smoke about Murray to the Vikings, that if it doesn't happen, the whole NFL media industry are bigger frauds than I thought.

Solid post.  Like you I feel exhausted by this subject and the 24/7 speculation, rumors and outright bullshit.  Whatever they do it will be a happy day for us when they do it, or at least for those who don't oppose whatever the move is lol.

Montana Tom wrote:

Of all the options, I say don't trade JJM, let him season a bit more.  I am leaning toward a one year "prove it" contract for KM, with a year team-option.  I am no longer of the mindset to let JJM go learn-on-the-job and show us, while we get a capable backup (that would be a Cousins, in my mind), I am of the opinion now to try to sign KM at the league minimum (which has a massive cap space positive impact), and let them battle it out, assuming that KM will win the starting job this year.  Will JJM be happy?  No but I want to win now.

I don't think we can say for sure Kyler is coming to Minnesota, but it sure seems to be trending that way. Either way, I don't think trading JJ is even a remote possibility. It's certainly not going to happen this year. 

I can even see a scenario where McCarthy is the starting QB in 2027. Here's one: with a great surround for the first time in his career, K1 lights it up. Vikings are headed to the playoffs and are contemplating an extension for Murray when he goes down with an ankle. McCarthy comes in for a couple games and is a revelation. Vikings go back to Murray when he's healthy, but they've now got an ace in the hole. 

2027 offseason. Do the Vikings extend Murray for massive QB money? Or do they now go back to McCarthy for the QB-on-a-rookie-deal panacea? Technically, his 5th year option isn't until the 2028 season. Sure, same mistake twice and all that, but I don't think it's out of the question.

Zanary wrote:

...I'm curious what makes this level of quitting on the kid attractive.

Seriously, the difference in his play from early to late in the season showed obvious improvement...and he was our starting QB for our first victory against Detroit in years.

I don't get the quitters.

I agree but I'm atrigged by Murray on the cheap  .both have had injuries last year  worst case is Murray  signs  plays  well gets hurt  then jj plays shows improvement off the last few games last year  some one signs Murray in 27 we probaly get a 3 or 4 th round comp in 28

MaroonBells wrote:

2027 offseason. Do the Vikings extend Murray for massive QB money? Or do they now go back to McCarthy for the QB-on-a-rookie-deal panacea? Technically, his 5th year option isn't until the 2028 season. Sure, same mistake twice and all that, but I don't think it's out of the question.

This is another thing I kinda hate about signing Murray. 

If Kyler stays healthy and has a good year (best case scenario, right?), then what? Vikes almost have to give him a Darnold deal, which means it’s curtains on JJM and we can trade him somewhere cushy so KO can say we didn’t fail him. I’d be sad if that’s the kid’s fate here.

MaroonBells wrote:

I think it's important for everyone to realize that the Vikings haven't even spoken to Kyler Murray or his agent. It's not legal to do so until league year. In no way should this be considered a foregone conclusion. And Geno Smith is a really good option as well. 

I've read several posts now from people who argue that signing Murray means the end of McCarthy's time in Minnesota, but I've yet to hear anyone explain why they think that in a convincing way. So curious, why do you think that? 

In one of my rants, bitching about the fact that we didn't sign Darnold to a two-year deal, you said that Darnold would not have accepted a two-year deal. You were exactly right. He would not have. And neither will Murray. If we do sign Murray, he will either be a rousing success, an utter failure or something in between. In only one of those scenarios do I see the Vikings trading McCarthy: the rousing success. And if that’s the case, why would we even care?

Waterboy wrote:
Yeah right, no contact whatsoever cuz that’s the rules. Naive a little?

Last time a team was caught tampering they were stripped of their 1st and 3rd round draft picks and fined $2 million dollars. But yeah,  I’m sure the Vikings are just ignoring all that.

I think there’s a huge difference in the difference between tampering (the spirit of the law) and tampering (the letter of the law). Tampering (the spirit of the law) is going after someone that is on someone else’s roster to try and get them off the roster. The offense you were referring to was the Dolphins repeatedly trying to get a player and a coach to leave their team and join a new team. Like if someone came after Justin Jefferson and repeatedly tried to recruit him, the Vikings would be obviously pissed and the league would punish the offending team.

The same is not true of Kyler. We all know that he’s effectively a free agent. The cardinals aren’t going to be pissed if tampering happens. We’re all waiting with baited breath for the tampering window to open and to hear all the contract details that unfurl immediately, which would never happen if these teams started negotiating within the tampering period.

I think the Kirk Cousins situation is the borderline example. He like so many other examples was clear tampering, but he opened his mouth and confessed to the tampering and the league had to enforce the rules that they choose to ignore, and they gave the Falcons a slap on the wrist.