Vikings @ Cowboys

I’m fine with advanced metrics. I think the real beef I have with metrics is people that share them without the context that needs to go with them. People cherry pick the few stats that prove their point. When people point to stats that most people aren’t familiar with, it leads to things being confusing because you don’t know exactly how that metric is calculated. I don’t think the broadcast teams help when they start leveraging whatever stat-finding tools they have to find gems like “This was the first time in 37 years that a QB has above 178 yards, 2 TDs on a Thursday night game, where each team had a bye week before the game”

medaille wrote:
I’m fine with advanced metrics.  I think the real beef I have with metrics is people that share them without the context that needs to go with them.  People cherry pick the few stats that prove their point.  When people point to stats that most people aren’t familiar with, it leads to things being confusing because you don’t know exactly how that metric is calculated.  I don’t think the broadcast teams help when they start leveraging whatever stat-finding tools they have to find gems like “This was the first time in 37 years that a QB has above 178 yards, 2 TDs on a Thursday night game, where each team had a bye week before the game”

LOL. Oh man, I couldn't agree more. 

Saw that a lot with our QB. Early on, statistical comparisons were made to the slow starts of Manning and Elway. Totally different eras. Later, others would talk about how megabust Josh Rosen had a more productive 1st year than McCarthy at that point. Meaningless. Then the most recent: something about JJ being the only QB in NFL history who has multiple TD passes while also rushing for a TD in the same game three times within the first 8 games of his career....I mean, c'mon, this is just picture painting with numbers. 

It's why I put a little more credence into the "PARA-metrics" I guess is what I'd call it. While it adds some subjectivity to the data, it doesn't rely so much on numbers as it does in-game, situational successes and failures.

MaroonBells wrote:


Is it perfect? Of course not. But you’ll forgive me if I tend to put more weight into an evaluation done by trained analysts watching the All-22…than some fucktard in Fresno watching the TV broadcast through the bottom of a glass.

MaroonBells wrote:

What is your evidence of bias? Or that the PFF analysts, many of whom are former players and coaches, don’t quite have a Jimmy-on-his-couch-level of understanding of the complexity of a play? Because, honestly, I think what you’ve been complaining about—how misleading stats can be—is exactly why there’s a need for these additional metrics.

How many times have we seen a QB throw a bad ball that really should’ve been picked off? But because it’s tipped into the receiver’s hands, it’s a TD? Why should a QB who throws a perfect ball that is dropped by the receiver get the exact same grade as the QB who throws a ball 10 feet over his head? In terms of stats, those two plays are identical, and I would hope you’d agree that they shouldn’t be. Shouldn't we distinguish between QBs who rise to the occasion in big moments and those who choke in those moments? I think you'd agree we should. These are simply metrics designed to help account for all that.

Is it perfect? Of course not. But you’ll forgive me if I tend to put more weight into an evaluation done by trained analysts watching the All-22…than some fucktard in Fresno watching the TV broadcast through the bottom of a glass.

how long does it take after a game for those ratings or metrics to come out?  who are all these ex pro athletes that are spending their glory years combing over every single play from every single player in every single game?  I dont buy the narrative is all I am saying,  if you want to....knock yourself out,  but there are plenty of former professional players that also question the veracity of these metrics, but they are probably drunk as well, right?

as far as bias, anytime you have a human reviewing something there will be bias, nearly all of our thoughts are based on bias which is largely nothing more than our life experiences and education coming to light in our thoughts and actions.

you like the geek side of the game, good for you if thats what trips your trigger, but if the analysis of stats/metrics/ etc could build a roster, then we wouldnt be sitting at home in January wondering if there are any good westerns playing on Sunday. All those geek things are fun for message boards, but they havent shown me yet that they serve much value in finding and collecting players that are better than the next guy. Like I said in another post, I am pretty sure you can find flattering numbers for even the shittiest players that might suggest they are more than they are based on specific situations that they dont suck at.

The biggest issue I have is that every season it seems that there are more and more of these things created to help sell a narrative when all that really matters is what you get out of the game and season, and in the end its a collection of players that makes the end result, the wrong combination of even the guys with the best metrics can shit the bed, and a collection of lesser players can wind up holding the trophy. If you can find the metrics or pff scores to accomplish that, let me know.

Canthony wrote:

Again, not at all. It's a stat that measures NFL throws difficulty level. I think there is merit to it. High talent level that needs to work on a few things. I think most can see however, that he really does have a high talent level. Especially when they just let him go out there and play. 

He is also the only QB in history to throw for 2 TDs and rush for a TD in 3 of his first 8 games. Another stat that is not meaningless. It really takes talent to do what he can do with his throws. 

It isn't that I am trying to fight. Most know I was and still holding on to being a big supporter of JJ. Just listened to many talk sideways with comments over the offseason and this season. Even down to people saying Brosmer is something he isn't. Quite frankly he has little NFL talent. 

Point is, the 22 year old, youngest QB in the league, has something and I believe he has chance to be something big.

I agree on JJ,  I dont think anybody has seen enough on Brosmer to say either way,  just like any narrative on JJ doesnt have enough supporting evidence good or bad.

MaroonBells wrote:


Apologies to all the fucktards in Fresno, but I put the dumbass in Denver in this category as well.

The Bitch of Boca agrees....

But let's put it as the Fucktards in Fargo for some team regionality. 

StickierBuns wrote:

Brosmer doesn't have the physical skill set that JJ does. We all know that doesn't make a NFL QB, but Brosmer was also an UDFA for a reason, just like JJ was a top 10 pick for a reason. Its not like they are on an equal playing field from the get-go. 

I hope that Max can learn and develop into a reliable QB2. That would be an amazing thing that alone.

Who is suggesting anything of the sort on Brosmer?  He had his shot and didnt perform well enough.  Nobody has said he should be in over JJ,  all I had seen early on was that he showed more poise and accuracy in preseason than what we had seen from JJ.  Nothing about him being a better prospect or being a better athlete.  

I will say that bringing in a decent veteran this offseason could end up backfiring badly on JJM,  as when JJM struggles or gets hurt next year,  and he likely will,  amd that veteran comes in and plays well,  which they often do, you then have a potential problem.  If its JJMs team,  then roll with him and Brosmer or another youngster,  and for the 3rd, either a reclamation project or another rookie.  No more guys with a 500 ceiling getting paid millions to hold a clipboard board IMO.  If Brosmer can't be counted on to handle a couple games then maybe he isnt a #2 candidate,  i just dont want a camp battle for the #1 spot.

StickierBuns wrote:

Honestly, I don't think KOC is comfortable going into the start of the 2026 season with Brosmer as QB2. As far as no vet competition for QB1, that's up to McCarthy. He's stacked 2 decent games....he needs to keep chopping wood. Giants D is decent, will be a challenge for him on the road.

I'm not. I still haven't seen that Seattle game, but the numbers and highlights are unmistakable. Vikings need to spend some time and money on their QB2 this offseason. He should be a QB who's capable of a legit competition with JJ (though it won't be an actual competition) but doesn't need to be named the starter in order to come here. Brosmer goes back in the oven.

Heh...with Kirko's guaranteed money pretty much paid out after this season, I wonder if he'd consider coming back at a big discount...?

Yeah, I know, and I'm mostly kidding...but he and Darnold have been our best recent veterans, and Sam's obviously bolted down in Seattle.

MaroonBells wrote:

I'm not. I still haven't seen that Seattle game, but the numbers and highlights are unmistakable. Vikings need to spend some time and money on their QB2 this offseason. He should be a QB who's capable of a legit competition with JJ (though it won't be an actual competition) but doesn't need to be named the starter in order to come here. Brosmer goes back in the oven.

This might cause some to "Wince," but I'd like to have Carson Wentz back as the primary backup. I thought he showed he was capable of some efficiency for a guy coming to the team late where he was pummeled behind a makeshift offensive line and KOC just kept passing. I think he is ideally what you'd want behind McCarthy. Veteran, been in the system, capable of winning games in a pinch, and he's going to be the wise voice McCarthy can lean on in his development. If JJ continues to show life to end the season, I'd be perfectly content going into next season with what we had this year.

supafreak84 wrote:

This might cause some to "Wince," but I'd like to have Carson Wentz back as the primary backup. I thought he showed he was capable of some efficiency for a guy coming to the team late where he was pummeled behind a makeshift offensive line and KOC just kept passing. I think he is ideally what you'd want behind McCarthy. Veteran, been in the system, capable of winning games in a pinch, and he's going to be the wise voice McCarthy can lean on in his development. If JJ continues to show life to end the season, I'd be perfectly content going into next season with what we had this year.

Yup!

I think he has to be a STRONG consideration...

He knows the system, the building and players. 

He's proven himself a warrior and with some decent protection? Can make plays.

That dude got F'd by really bad OL circumstances this year.

Zanary wrote:
Heh...with Kirko's guaranteed money pretty much paid out after this season, I wonder if he'd consider coming back at a big discount...?

Yeah, I know, and I'm mostly kidding...but he and Darnold have been our best recent veterans, and Sam's obviously bolted down in Seattle.

I didn't want to bring it up, but Cousins is probably our best bet. Couple weeks ago it seemed he would definitely be a QB2 somewhere else next year, but after his big game against Tampa, there's some buzz that someone might give him a starting job. I think it's borderline.

supafreak84 wrote:

This might cause some to "Wince," but I'd like to have Carson Wentz back as the primary backup. I thought he showed he was capable of some efficiency for a guy coming to the team late where he was pummeled behind a makeshift offensive line and KOC just kept passing. I think he is ideally what you'd want behind McCarthy. Veteran, been in the system, capable of winning games in a pinch, and he's going to be the wise voice McCarthy can lean on in his development. If JJ continues to show life to end the season, I'd be perfectly content going into next season with what we had this year.

I'm hoping we can do better than Wentz, but one thing about him is that he's almost 5 years younger than Cousins. Jimmy G and Mariota could be options as well. Mac Jones is under contract for another year in SF, but could be a trade target.

We’re not going to get a QB that can provide “legit competition” for McCarthy. We’re going to get a guy who’s a failed starter and has accepted that they are a backup QB and they are not going to compete for starting, they are going to backup in case of injury.

I don’t think that’s Cousins. Cousins views himself as a starter and will go to a place where he can be the starter.

I’m fine rolling with Wentz, although I think KOC thinks he can do better. Could be Mariota.

JimmyinSD wrote:


I agree on JJ,  I dont think anybody has seen enough on Brosmer to say either way,  just like any narrative on JJ doesnt have enough supporting evidence good or bad.

Brosmer doesn't have the physical skill set that JJ does. We all know that doesn't make a NFL QB, but Brosmer was also an UDFA for a reason, just like JJ was a top 10 pick for a reason. Its not like they are on an equal playing field from the get-go. 

I hope that Max can learn and develop into a reliable QB2. That would be an amazing thing that alone.

Back-up QB can be a very good gig....

Teddy Bridgewater earned over $66 million in his NFL career, with significant contracts including a 3-year, $63 million deal with the Panthers in 2020 and a fully guaranteed $6.5 million deal with the Dolphins in 2022, reflecting consistent earnings as a veteran QB, though his final 2025 deal with the Buccaneers was a veteran minimum of $1.255 million. His earnings came from base salaries, signing bonuses (like $15M in 2020), and roster bonuses, totaling around $66 million by 2025.

Google AI

JimmyinSD wrote:

  If Brosmer can't be counted on to handle a couple games then maybe he isnt a #2 candidate,  i just dont want a camp battle for the #1 spot.

Honestly, I don't think KOC is comfortable going into the start of the 2026 season with Brosmer as QB2. As far as no vet competition for QB1, that's up to McCarthy. He's stacked 2 decent games....he needs to keep chopping wood. Giants D is decent, will be a challenge for him on the road.

MaroonBells wrote:


I'm not. I still haven't seen that Seattle game, but the numbers and highlights are unmistakable. Vikings need to spend some time and money on their QB2 this offseason. He should be a QB who's capable of a legit competition with JJ (though it won't be an actual competition) but doesn't need to be named the starter in order to come here. Brosmer goes back in the oven.

Agree with every word. 

purplefaithful wrote:

Yup!

I think he has to be a STRONG consideration...

He knows the system, the building and players. 

He's proven himself a warrior and with some decent protection? Can make plays.

That dude got F'd by really bad OL circumstances this year.

giving Wentz an offseason in the system will help as well.

KOC learning how to call plays could be a huge help to all the QBs.  But yeah, I wouldn't mind him as the #2 next year.  He isn't gonna complain about being #2.  He is happy playing for the Vikings.

MaroonBells wrote:

I didn't want to bring it up, but Cousins is probably our best bet. Couple weeks ago it seemed he would definitely be a QB2 somewhere else next year, but after his big game against Tampa, there's some buzz that someone might give him a starting job. I think it's borderline.

I'm hoping we can do better than Wentz, but one thing about him is that he's almost 5 years younger than Cousins. Jimmy G and Mariota could be options as well. Mac Jones is under contract for another year in SF, but could be a trade target.

That would be such fucking KAM move to send draft picks for a back up QB when every possible position needs talent upgrades or a youth movement.  This would likely piss me off more than a RB in the first.

JimmyinSD wrote:

That would be such fucking KAM move to send draft picks for a back up QB when every possible position needs talent upgrades or a youth movement.  This would likely piss me off more than a RB in the first.

Indeed. EVERY. POSSIBLE. POSITION.