Vikings @ Cowboys
This game is going to be a doozy. Provided JJ McCarthy doesn't step on his own Willy again, the Vikings should be able to move the ball as well or better than they did against Washington. Cowboys have the worst pass defense in the NFL.
They also have best pass offense in the NFL. But it's not a clean offense. Prescott throws for a shit-ton of yards, but can also make mistakes. He threw for nearly 400 yards against the Lions, but also threw 2 picks and took 5 sacks. I expect a similar, football-flying, error-filled performance against a much better pass defense than the Lions have (Vikings have the NFL's 4th ranked pass defense. Lions rank 19th).
Strength against strength; weakness against weakness. Good old fashioned playground game with a lot of yards, scores and big plays on defense.
comet52 wrote:
The season long stats on Dallas' defense are deceiving. Since acquiring Quinnen Williams they are good against the run and more middle of the pack against the pass. They were just so bad early that it skews the stats.Their high level passing attack taking advantage of our weak secondary is likely going to be the difference.
This is true. Since QW arrived, their run defense has been much better. As I said before, I don't think the Vikings will be able to run the ball quite as well as they did against the Commies, so JJ is going to have to play well.
Still, this Cowboys team gave up 400 yards and 44 points to the Lions just last week. I also think the Vikings defense has played as well as any defense the last three or four weeks. What's more, with Guyton out, the Cowboys will be starting 7th rounder Nate Thomas at left tackle. Thomas gave up FIVE hurries and EIGHT pressures against the Lions for an illustrious PFF pass blocking grade of 16.3. Fantasy players: bench Jake Ferguson. No way the Cowboys leave Thomas out there alone against Greenard, Gink and Turner.
The Vikings defense is about attacking and penetrating, but they don't tackle particularly well, especially in the secondary. And Javonte Williams is one of the hardest-running RBs I've seen. With the Vikings focused on rushing the passer, Williams could be a nightmare.
MaroonBells wrote:Detroit also put up over 500 on the Commies who we managed about 300 against. They are a much more functional offense than the Vikings at this point.
Still, this Cowboys team gave up 400 yards and 44 points to the Lions just last week.
I also think the Vikings defense has played as well as any defense the last three or four weeks.
Yes the defenders have continued to give a good effort even in games where the offensive side of the ball did nothing. They play hard for Flores, who will probably be gone after this season unfortunately.
comet52 wrote:
Yes the defenders have continued to give a good effort even in games where the offensive side of the ball did nothing. They play hard for Flores, who will probably be gone after this season unfortunately.
I don't think effort has a lot to do with it at this level. I think people tend to forget just how much talent is on that side of the ball. On both sides of the ball, actually....with one bright, flashing, neon red exception.
I also don't think Flores is going anywhere. There was an article written a few days ago about how much he loves Minnesota. They also mentioned that among the dozen or so coaches on various hot lists, he's not one of them. The writer speculated that his lawsuit is likely the biggest reason why.
Curious why JJM and JJ can't seem to find chemistry. I know some is JJM and his growing pains , missing open throws, etc.
Ok, nice easy throw to Nailor for the TD. Is JJM thinking too much when throwing to JJ? Trying too hard to make too perfect a throw? JJ has missed some catches too, so there's that.
I don't know, just spit balling some random thoughts.
LabGeek wrote:
Curious why JJM and JJ can't seem to find chemistry. I know some is JJM and his growing pains , missing open throws, etc.Ok, nice easy throw to Nailor for the TD. Is JJM thinking too much when throwing to JJ? Trying too hard to make too perfect a throw? JJ has missed some catches too, so there's that.
I don't know, just spit balling some random thoughts.
The longer it goes, the bigger it gets. Brain hurdles for the kid .
Why isn't Chuck Foreman in the Hall of Fame?
Hell of a well fought win after an inauspicious start. JJ made some throws, utilized the TE's, and OConnell for the second game in a row ran a more balanced attack that worked for McCarthy. Defense continues to play tough. The biggest takeaway is McCarthy showed some juice and looks like maybe he is the guy going forward. Excited to see how he finishes out the year
StickierBuns wrote:
Perfection. KOC said he had to do a double-take to make sure because it was so good, lol.
Done like a QB that is used to being under center and putting his back to the defense on play action. Smooth operator. That's a tough sell for the shotgun/RPO QBs.
4 games separate the NFCN leader and cellar dwellar: Minnesota should have beaten Chicago twice. 2 games separate the Lions and Vikings. And all this with Minnesota playing like ass for a decent portion of the season. This division is up for grabs next year IMO.
Big timer:
VikingzFanPage
@vikingzfanpage
·
8h
#Vikings QB JJ McCarthy leads the NFL in big time throw rate (7.7%) this season, according to
@PFF
.
LOL :D "Big Time Throw Rate..." WTF are we just making up stats now so everyone can be good at something, like participation trophies
Why isn't Chuck Foreman in the Hall of Fame?
JimmyinSD wrote:
LOL :D "Big Time Throw Rate..." WTF are we just making up stats now so everyone can be good at something, like participation trophies
It measures throws difficulty level really. Mainly down field past LOS. Balls thrown in rhythm, timing, with excellent ball location. His talent level is actually really high.
Canthony wrote:
It measures throws difficulty level really. Mainly down field past LOS. Balls thrown in rhythm, timing, with excellent ball location. His talent level is actually really high.
You play with stats long enough and you can find a positive for even the shittiest players... all these tortured stats lead to head scratching drafts and problem rosters.
Why isn't Chuck Foreman in the Hall of Fame?
JimmyinSD wrote:
LOL :D "Big Time Throw Rate..." WTF are we just making up stats now so everyone can be good at something, like participation trophies
I think it's good they started tracking these. They also now track "Turnover Worthy Plays" to provide a more accurate evaluation of a player's performance. Statistically, two QBs who both throw 20-yard touchdown passes are exactly the same. But if one QB throws this pass under pressure, on 3rd and long, in a tight window to take the lead in the game...it's a whole different thing than a QB who throws a 20-yard TD pass on 1st and 10, with no pressure, well behind the receiver and if the DB had a clue would've easily been picked off. Those two passes should not have equal weight.
JimmyinSD wrote:
You play with stats long enough and you can find a positive for even the shittiest players... all these tortured stats lead to head scratching drafts and problem rosters.
Well, if you can't see the talent level and you see JJ as "shitty" okay then. To each their own.
Watcher wrote:
How sweet was that fake handoff on his walk in TD?
Perfection. KOC said he had to do a double-take to make sure because it was so good, lol.
Done like a QB that is used to being under center and putting his back to the defense on play action. Smooth operator. That's a tough sell for the shotgun/RPO QBs.
4 games separate the NFCN leader and cellar dwellar: Minnesota should have beaten Chicago twice. 2 games separate the Lions and Vikings. And all this with Minnesota playing like ass for a decent portion of the season. This division is up for grabs next year IMO.
Big timer:
VikingzFanPage
@vikingzfanpage
·
8h
#Vikings QB JJ McCarthy leads the NFL in big time throw rate (7.7%) this season, according to
@PFF
.
Canthony wrote:
Well, if you can't see the talent level and you see JJ as "shitty" okay then. To each their own.
WTF are you talking about? Reading comprehension is not a strong suit of yours is it, that was clearly a hypothetical statement to point our the insanity of all these new stats and metrics? Or do you read something and then add made up meaning in an effort to get yourself offended ( Like I asked last time, are you trying to find fights when you post?). I was not taking a shot at JJM at all, this is about another stupid metric which is once again going to be evaluated by who knows what or who.
Why isn't Chuck Foreman in the Hall of Fame?
MaroonBells wrote:
I think it's good they started tracking these. They also now track "Turnover Worthy Plays" to provide a more accurate evaluation of a player's performance. Statistically, two QBs who both throw 20-yard touchdown passes are exactly the same. But if one QB throws this pass under pressure, on 3rd and long, in a tight window to take the lead in the game...it's a whole different thing than a QB who throws a 20-yard TD pass on 1st and 10, with no pressure, well behind the receiver and if the DB had a clue would've easily been picked off. Those two passes should not have equal weight.
I think I dont trust "they", with all the video sources out there I think its best to form our own opinions by watching players instead of relying on "they" to tell me how to think.
I agree that 2 situations can and are very often completely different, my issue is that they dont seem to be able to do things without bias, or dont seem to have a clear understanding of the complexity of an issue and apply a very general grading process. Say for example that CB is trusting help that doesnt come because the QB looked off the safety prior to throwing the ball... I doubt the graders get that into a play, I just think there is way to many unknowns and nuances in the game for it to be whittled down to a grade or even a series of grades. for a scale to have real meaning it just about needs to be your own scale for how you view things, and your scale wont likely work for me or others as we dont weight things the same in evaluating anymore than 2 GMs or certainly not people trying to grade thousands of players in thousands of plays over the course of a few days.
Why isn't Chuck Foreman in the Hall of Fame?
A ‘chess match’ Sunday night
Though the Cowboys finished Sunday night with almost 300 passing yards (294), the Vikings defense limited their explosiveness to a handful of plays.
The Cowboys are tied with Seattle for the NFL lead in pass plays over 40 yards with 11 and have another 47 over 20 yards.
Against the Vikings, quarterback Dak Prescott found receivers for gains of over 20 yards only four times. His longest connections of the night were 30-yard passes to wide receiver CeeDee Lamb in the first and third quarters.
Lamb led the Cowboys in receiving with six catches on 10 targets for 111 yards. George Pickens, who has a team-high 1,212 receiving yards this season, was held to three receptions for 33 yards on six targets.
“Obviously going into the game, we all knew who their guys are,” Vikings cornerback Byron Murphy Jr. told reporters after the game. “We knew we had to take that off the board. We love that matchup. We want to go out there and guard the best. We knew today we couldn’t give up no deep shots, and that’s what we did.”
Something that played a large role in the Vikings’ ability to stifle the NFL’s top passing offense was what O’Connell called a “chess match” between Prescott and veteran Vikings safety Harrison Smith, who has been granted flexibility in defensive coordinator Brian Flores’ scheme because of his experience and football IQ.
O’Connell praised Smith’s “game within the game” Monday when asked what has clicked for the defense, which hasn’t given up a passing touchdown in five consecutive games.
“There’s been a really, really good combination of the marriage of our pressure packages, coverages and getting the quarterback off the spot, even on plays where we’re maybe not in full send-it mode,” O’Connell said, proceeding to call out the interior defensive linemen and outside linebackers specifically.
Dallas coach Brian Schottenheimer said the Vikings defense “seemed to be a step ahead of” his offense, disguising blitzes and coverages as is usual under Flores.
Prescott was pressured on 51.2% of his dropbacks, according to Next Gen Stats.
“That’s what Minnesota does, man,” Schottenheimer said postgame. “They light you up. They get up in the A-gaps and they bring different blitzes and pressures and they force free runners. And again, I got a chance to talk to Brian after the game and I told him, ‘Hey, hell of a job.’ ”
Strib
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
JimmyinSD wrote:
WTF are you talking about? Reading comprehension is not a strong suit of yours is it, that was clearly a hypothetical statement to point our the insanity of all these new stats and metrics? Or do you read something and then add made up meaning in an effort to get yourself offended ( Like I asked last time, are you trying to find fights when you post?). I was not taking a shot at JJM at all, this is about another stupid metric which is once again going to be evaluated by who knows what or who.
Again, not at all. It's a stat that measures NFL throws difficulty level. I think there is merit to it. High talent level that needs to work on a few things. I think most can see however, that he really does have a high talent level. Especially when they just let him go out there and play.
He is also the only QB in history to throw for 2 TDs and rush for a TD in 3 of his first 8 games. Another stat that is not meaningless. It really takes talent to do what he can do with his throws.
It isn't that I am trying to fight. Most know I was and still holding on to being a big supporter of JJ. Just listened to many talk sideways with comments over the offseason and this season. Even down to people saying Brosmer is something he isn't. Quite frankly he has little NFL talent.
Point is, the 22 year old, youngest QB in the league, has something and I believe he has chance to be something big.
Jerry Jones giving JJ credit for winning the game
https://fb.watch/E1hJzWzSBn/
JimmyinSD wrote:
I think I dont trust "they", with all the video sources out there I think its best to form our own opinions by watching players instead of relying on "they" to tell me how to think.
I agree that 2 situations can and are very often completely different, my issue is that they dont seem to be able to do things without bias, or dont seem to have a clear understanding of the complexity of an issue and apply a very general grading process. Say for example that CB is trusting help that doesnt come because the QB looked off the safety prior to throwing the ball... I doubt the graders get that into a play, I just think there is way to many unknowns and nuances in the game for it to be whittled down to a grade or even a series of grades. for a scale to have real meaning it just about needs to be your own scale for how you view things, and your scale wont likely work for me or others as we dont weight things the same in evaluating anymore than 2 GMs or certainly not people trying to grade thousands of players in thousands of plays over the course of a few days.
What is your evidence of bias? Or that the PFF analysts, many of whom are former players and coaches, don’t quite have a Jimmy-on-his-couch-level of understanding of the complexity of a play? Because, honestly, I think what you’ve been complaining about—how misleading stats can be—is exactly why there’s a need for these additional metrics.
How many times have we seen a QB throw a bad ball that really should’ve been picked off? But because it’s tipped into the receiver’s hands, it’s a TD? Why should a QB who throws a perfect ball that is dropped by the receiver get the exact same grade as the QB who throws a ball 10 feet over his head? In terms of stats, those two plays are identical, and I would hope you’d agree that they shouldn’t be. Shouldn't we distinguish between QBs who rise to the occasion in big moments and those who choke in those moments? I think you'd agree we should. These are simply metrics designed to help account for all that.
Is it perfect? Of course not. But you’ll forgive me if I tend to put more weight into an evaluation done by trained analysts watching the All-22…than some fucktard in Fresno watching the TV broadcast through the bottom of a glass.
StickierBuns wrote:
Apologies to all the fucktards in Fresno, but I put the dumbass in Denver in this category as well.
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