Kwesi Train

I think the problem runs deeper than Kwesi.  But he definitely is not up to the job imo.

comet52 wrote:
I think the problem runs deeper than Kwesi.  But he definitely is not up to the job imo.

KAM/Grigson should be shown the door as soon as the season is over...I dont think it will go as high as Miller unfortunately.

purplefaithful wrote:

KAM/Grigson should be shown the door as soon as the season is over...I dont think it will go as high as Miller unfortunately.

See, that's what worries me. If they fire him, who are they going to replace him with? What if it is Grigson?
Would that be Viking like?

hogjowlsjohnny wrote:

See, that's what worries me. If they fire him, who are they going to replace him with? What if it is Grigson?
Would that be Viking like?

I honestly believe we have people on this board that could draft better than what we've seen the last 4 seasons or so. 

I'm serious too!

hogjowlsjohnny wrote:

See, that's what worries me. If they fire him, who are they going to replace him with? What if it is Grigson?
Would that be Viking like?

I was thinking that same thing.  If Kwesi goes do they just promote Grigson and leave the rest as is?  Does the entire scouting department need to get rid of the slackers?  

Don't think Andrew Miller is feeling the heat yet, but he should.  Just another non-football guy who has a top job with the team.

Yet next home game we will hear the SKOL chant like it is some overpowering spell on the opposing team.  Fans will show up maybe start to boo and the Wilfs will sit in their box and say "well at least it is a sellout".

Was listening to Judd's podcast last night and a few nuggets;

- there's a lot of behind the scenes finger pointing going on that could boil over and become public very soon. This all dates back to the handling of the quarterback position

- assistant head coach and LB coach Mike Pettine mysteriously did not make the trip to Seattle with the team. No explanation provided by the team.

- O'Connell is expected to have built up enough "good will" during his tenure that no matter what happens the rest of the season, he is expected to return for at least next year. Kwesi....not so much.

supafreak84 wrote:
Was listening to Judd's podcast last night and a few nuggets;

- there's a lot of behind the scenes finger pointing going on that could boil over and become public very soon. This all dates back to the handling of the quarterback position

- assistant head coach and LB coach Mike Pettine mysteriously did not make the trip to Seattle with the team. No explanation provided by the team.

- O'Connell is expected to have built up enough "good will" during his tenure that no matter what happens the rest of the season, he is expected to return for at least next year. Kwesi....not so much.

I'm sure the temp and tempers are hi in Eagan right now...There will be changes for sure, how wide/deep these go is anyones guess.

Sadly, the whole thing really short-circuited by not getting the QB right with a vet, expensive team. Kind of a fans worst nightmare scenario...

purplefaithful wrote:

I'm sure the temp and tempers are hi in Eagan right now...There will be changes for sure, how wide/deep these go is anyones guess.

Sadly, the whole thing really short-circuited by not getting the QB right with a vet, expensive team. Kind of a fans worst nightmare scenario...

Yeah now Kwesi is pointing the finger at KOC and vice versa in an effort to save their jobs. 

I keep going back to the Wilfs shitcanning both Zimmer and Spielman after a down covid year in 2020, and an 8-9 season in 2021 where they lost a record number of one score games. Four years later and this team is about to finish the season with 4 or 5 wins, no depth or young talent, no long term answer at quarterback, and salary cap issues after spending 300+ million dollars in free agency. And now the coach and front office are fueding trying to save their jobs. The idiot Wilfs lose all credibility if they don't make significant changes this offseason. 

Also of interest on the podcast, they thought if Spielman would have been retained he "100%" would have hired Jim Harbaugh to coach this football team. I would sell my grandmother to have a Spielman/Harbaugh combo in charge of this organization right now over the current regime

StickierBuns wrote:

I don't think either KOC or KAM are going to lose their jobs. Not sure why some think that will happen. I can't say definitively, of course, but its probably 90% that doesn't happen IMO. They both just signed extensions, lol. KOC was just Coach of the Year. 

I see a lot of disgruntled fans losing their shit, but what else is new?

Staying status quo would be the dumbest thing ever

supafreak84 wrote:
Was listening to Judd's podcast last night and a few nuggets;

- there's a lot of behind the scenes finger pointing going on that could boil over and become public very soon. This all dates back to the handling of the quarterback position

- assistant head coach and LB coach Mike Pettine mysteriously did not make the trip to Seattle with the team. No explanation provided by the team.

- O'Connell is expected to have built up enough "good will" during his tenure that no matter what happens the rest of the season, he is expected to return for at least next year. Kwesi....not so much.

God let’s hope so. The handling of QB hasn’t just been a FK up this year. But it’s certainly come home to roost this year. 

We need to take a dive until we get enough of a draft pick to get exactly who they want. Not the fifth best prospect. If they believed in Maye they should have either figured it out or found a veteran if they weren’t sold on McCarthy.

supafreak84 wrote:

Staying status quo would be the dumbest thing ever

Something has to change. Hopefully it involves Kwesi

StickierBuns wrote:

Whether it is or not, who knows? But in less than a year after they BOTH sign extensions you fire them? It won't happen. They'll get a chance to dig out of this hole of a season. I know the pitchfork crowd wants their pound of flesh, but its not happening this offseason, IMO. 

I wonder what happened with Pettine? Didn't make the trip, didn't coach in the game.

The Wilfs fired Childress the very next season after stupidly signing him to a contract extension. It can and has happened

StickierBuns wrote:

I don't think either KOC or KAM are going to lose their jobs. Not sure why some think that will happen. I can't say definitively, of course, but its probably 90% that doesn't happen IMO. They both just signed extensions, lol. KOC was just Coach of the Year. 

I see a lot of disgruntled fans losing their shit, but what else is new?

We'll have to agree to disagree for now...Wilfs arent afraid to write people big chx after firing em (see Chili).

What we probably agree on is that it could get a lot darker as this season comes to a merciful end. Those home games are not going to be pleasant unless the team does a complete reversal of being competitive on the field. 

That booing and a stadium full of Lions and Packer fans wont sit well with ownership. Might just tip them to doing things that are more drastic vs less.

my biggest concern is in an effort to save their jobs... they use their picks out of desperation, if they dont have faith in Brosmer or JJM figuring it out, they grab the first QB that has a first round grade, and so on down the draft, or worse yet they package some future picks to go get the consensus #1 in what appears to be a very very poor QB draft. ( from what I've heard, I have no idea who will or wont be declaring)

AGRforever wrote:

God let’s hope so. The handling of QB hasn’t just been a FK up this year. But it’s certainly come home to roost this year. 

We need to take a dive until we get enough of a draft pick to get exactly who they want. Not the fifth best prospect. If they believed in Maye they should have either figured it out or found a veteran if they weren’t sold on McCarthy.

Agree. Just like what happened with Spielman and Ponder. They wanted a QB and took what they thought was the best, left over draft choice.

hogjowlsjohnny wrote:

Agree. Just like what happened with Spielman and Ponder. They wanted a QB and took what they thought was the best, left over draft choice.

they were talking about JJM several weeks before the draft,  before they knew that they weren't going to be able to move up.  I dont think they viewed him as desperation choice by any means or they would have went with Nix who's ceiling may not have been as high,  but likely to have been a safer pick.

I’m much less on the anti-Kwesi train than a lot of people. I think this season is much more on the coaching staff than it is on the personnel teams, and most egregiously it’s on the offensive coaching staff. I think if the offense was able to get functional play out of the QB position, this whole season looks dramatically different, and we’re not so concerned about the roster composition. This roster, outside of QB, is still one of the better rosters. I like Turner, I like Jackson, I like Addison, heck I still like JJM. I’m not massively concerned about his drafting ability. I just think we need to lay off the trades for a little while.

My biggest concern is with KOC’s offensive scheme and his ego around it. I think it’s too complicated and too hard for many QBs, and especially for young QBs, and I just don’t think he made the right decision going into the season to pretty much run his full offense without any real training wheels for his two young QBs and Wentz, who’s never really been a high-processing QB. A very typical thing teams with young QBs do is pair them with a run heavy scheme. We’re bottom 3 in the league in rushing attempts, despite being top 10 in terms of ypc. I don’t think I remember seeing a single instance of having a 6th OL on the field to really try to establish some physicality in the rush game. I also think KOC’s scheme feels like it’s everything past 20 yards getting open at the same time, and less like something where reading a progression would have different players potentially open at different times. It feels like the entire quick passing game is screens. I think you could run a defense with 2 safeties deep, 2 CBs covering the flats for a screen and ending up deep, and basically just ignoring everything between the numbers out to 20 yards, and it would smother our offense just fine. I think we compound problems by asking our RB’s and TE’s to chip and get out into routes as a safety valve. Hockenson is too slow to chip and then run a route. He very frequently half-asses a chip and then is too late to be where he needs to be to catch a ball because the guy he didn’t slow down his rusher at all. One immediate change, I think they could make is to stop doing that. Just leave them in to block or let them run routes. The stupidest possible thing is to have Hockenson be the only receiver running a short route when he’s also chipping. I’d much rather make Addison or Jefferson or Nailor try to scramble around and get open than have your slowest receiving option be the only realistic target and also have them be late to their spot, where any person within 20 yards can tackle him before he can turn around.

That said, I think JJM and Brosmer will eventually grow into this offense if he doesn’t make any changes, but it’s just going to be brutal until they figure it out, and he shouldn’t be putting this burden on them, although it’s probably too late now to create a new playbook for his rookie QBs.

StickierBuns wrote:
Guys....lol. There's no way they are firing KOC. KAM? Probably not, but a MUCH higher chance. The Brad Childress thing was completely different, KOC was COY.

I agree, KOC isnt going anywhere after this season...

KAM? I think its 50/50 if he's back..

Fans hated Chilly's guts lol. KO is in a much different position and should absolutely be retained.

KAM is getting harder to defend but I still say retain him, with serious staffing changes.

Mike Pettine- Wat the devil? When are we going to hear more about this. Feels very Norv-Turner-is-gone-now.

StickierBuns wrote:
Guys....lol. There's no way they are firing KOC. KAM? Probably not, but a MUCH higher chance. The Brad Childress thing was completely different, KOC was COY.

When did fans booing ever really mean anything? Hell, Philly fans were booing their team against Chicago when the game was scoreless....and they just won last year's Superbowl.

Step away from social media, lol. Honestly.

Childress was coming off an NFC Championship game appearance where we were one bad Farve INT from going to the Super Bowl. He was signed to an extension and fired when the wheels came off the following year. What has KOC ever won? COY means very little in the grand scheme and certainly not a reason in itself to retain him.  

And the Wilfs throughout their inept history only make changes when the boo birds are out at home. That's why it means something.

StickierBuns wrote:

KOC isn't going anywhere. Bank it.

As long as Kwesi is gone. He's the mistake I told everybody he was four years ago when he was hired. You just don't hire a GM with zero football or scouting experience unless you are simply trying to score DEI points with the commissioner. The fans of this organization deserve better than what the Wilfs have served up over the course of 20+ seasons of inept ownership