JJ McCarthy

at least 2 td missed on horrible throws

Price and Will the Thrill are having good years, KOC stuck to the run, so we got that!

Fugly game and really bad performance from the QB...That said, Hock and Addison didnt help out. Still almost won which is a head scratcher.

I think Brady hit on it when he said he's getting in his head too much too often. 

Its certainly going to strain my fan patience the rest of the season.

4/6 and staring down the rest of their schedule? Could get fuglier if the offense/qb can't come around.

Realistically, I'm not sure I see 3 more wins?
GB (twice)
at Sea
Lions
Commodes
at Dallas
at Giants

I hate to say it, but I think the salve for me is a top 10 draft pick and seeing some hope in JJM b4 the season is over.

Line gave him all day. Run game did its part. McCarthy stunk out the joint and there were tons of drops. Ugly stuff, they’ll do better next week.

At least we only had 1 (?) false start.

pattersaur wrote:
Line gave him all day. Run game did its part. McCarthy stunk out the joint and there were tons of drops. Ugly stuff, they’ll do better next week.

At least we only had 1 (?) false start.

Yah, good point...The line calls and the cadence plus getting em lined-up was much improved today. 

I'm not sure they'll do better At GB.

But lets play the game and see. At some point the kid has to turn the corner and I would hope its this year.

The Vikings went into today 31st on the league on converting 3rd downs. We were 3 of 11 today. We find new ways to beat ourselves every week and this week it was drops by a handsomely paid receiving core. McCarthy was mostly awful. I don't even know what the hell KOC is doing during the week to get these guys to stop tripping over themselves, but it's not working and we are just an undisciplined team that's never gotten it going offensively all year long.

When Wentz was playing I posted I would rather see 6 win's with JJ improving than 9 with Wentz slowing the process. careful what you wish for.  Man it's painful to watch but this the process, and hope it pays off.  I wasn't expecting him to be a great passer, but I also thought he had some skill's.  He's making some great players look bad.  Oh well my beer consumption is way down this year, so there that, I guess

comet52 wrote:
That was an all time Vikings stinker qb performance out there today.  He's sailing balls high, wide, then when he's on target there is so much heat on them that guys can't hold on.  Even KOC abandoned the pass-happy bit and had us run the ball which actually got us back into a game against a really weak Bears team.

JJM had touch on his passes for the first time all day on that last 2-minute drive for the go-ahead score.  Which begs the question where was it before that?  Is it just a mental issue?  And if so, what is the alleged qb-whisperer coach doing that his top 10 drafted qb is already a head case after just 5 games?  Or was he a head case to begin with and we drafted the wrong guy.

Regardless, this was really ugly, coming back in a game you frankly didn't deserve to win then somehow giving it away on a kick return to setup a f.g.

Completely out of sync on offense.  For his part KOC showed more patience with the run but ironically JJM was at his best in the spread O.  Maddening. 

JJM first needs to start making his layup throws, but you can kind of see his head spinning still. He’s just trying to figure it out and he was well protected today against a very mediocre D.  He is a clear failure so far but he’s also so young and has the best QB coach in the league.  Tough to watch cause the rest of the team is good enough to make the playoffs

purplefaithful wrote:
I hate to say it, but I think the salve for me is a top 10 draft ...

And then we get to sweat out what Kwesi does with it. :s

Bullazin wrote:

He is a clear failure so far but he’s also so young and has the best QB coach in the league.  Tough to watch cause the rest of the team is good enough to make the playoffs

Are you referring to McCown who was sent packing in Carolina after he and Frank Reich almost single handedly ruined Bruce Young? Young got better when he left. 

If you are referring to KOC, what evidence do we have that he's a great developer of quarterbacks? A sandlot game by the Passtronaut, who got worse the more familiar he became with the playbook? Darnold? Watch any interview and he says things changed for him landing in SF and learning under Kyle Shanahan and sitting behind Purdy. We know KOC doesn't necessarily run a QB friendly system and is going to run what he's going to run with little deviation to the gameplan. Ask Wentz. I'm just tired of hearing about how great KOC is as an offensive guru and developer of quarterbacks when there's simply no evidence of that.

BigAl99 wrote:
When Wentz was playing I posted I would rather see 6 win's with JJ improving than 9 with Wentz slowing the process. careful what you wish for.  Man it's painful to watch but this the process, and hope it pays off.  I wasn't expecting him to be a great passer, but I also thought he had some skill's.  He's making some great players look bad.  Oh well my beer consumption is way down this year, so there that, I guess

Beer is down?  I’ve found a way to drink more.

supafreak84 wrote:

Are you referring to McCown who was sent packing in Carolina after he and Frank Reich almost single handedly ruined Bruce Young? Young got better when he left. 

If you are referring to KOC, what evidence do we have that he's a great developer of quarterbacks? A sandlot game by the Passtronaut, who got worse the more familiar he became with the playbook? Darnold? Watch any interview and he says things changed for him landing in SF and learning under Kyle Shanahan and sitting behind Purdy. We know KOC doesn't necessarily run a QB friendly system and is going to run what he's going to run with little deviation to the gameplan. Ask Wentz. I'm just tired of hearing about how great KOC is as an offensive guru and developer of quarterbacks when there's simply no evidence of that.

According to you however, the Wilfs suck, Kwesi sucks, and KOC is apparently overrated, even though this team has had quite a bit of success recently.  To me, this is simply a tough year in which they are trying to develop a baby QB. I’m a fan but I will reserve judgement for the most part until the failure is apparent.  The Wilfs are great owners, that run the team with integrity and inclusiveness I’ve already decided on that issue. The rest I’ll give them to middle to end of next year to get things right before I call for change.

Bullazin wrote:
IDK Freak, probs a little too much credit to call him the best, but he is widely reknowned in league circles for QB development. 

According to you however, the Wilfs suck, Kwesi sucks, and KOC is apparently overrated, even though this team has had quite a bit of success recently.  To me, this is simply a tough year in which they are trying to develop a baby QB. I’m a fan but I will reserve judgement for the most part until the failure is apparent.  The Wilfs are great owners, that run the team with integrity and inclusiveness I’ve already decided on that issue. The rest I’ll give them to middle to end of next year to get things right before I call for change.

Well that's just it, why does the media consistently trip over their dicks saying he's this offensive genius/quarterback whisperer when there's simply no evidence to support it? It blows my mind. I see a guy who's unwilling to change his scheme or make adjustments at the expense of his quarterbacks. He's allergic to running the football or trying to establish a consistent ground game to help his quarterback out. The Sam Howell experiment was a disaster. He should have been charged criminally for continuing to trot Wentz out there hurt, behind an extremely suspect offensive line, and continuing to run deep, long developing routes. McCarthy was and is his chance to prove to the world that he's the guy everyone says he is and thusfar those results have not been good. I'm just tired of this guy getting a pass because there's always an excuse. We had 3 f'n points with 13 minutes to go in the 4th quarter today at home against a very mediocre Bears defense. No more excuses. 

The Wilfs may be good owners, but they are terrible football men, and Kwesi does suck...do we have any argument there?

supafreak84 wrote:

Well that's just it, why does the media consistently trip over their dicks saying he's this offensive genius/quarterback whisperer when there's simply no evidence to support it? It blows my mind. I see a guy who's unwilling to change his scheme or make adjustments at the expense of his quarterbacks. He's allergic to running the football or trying to establish a consistent ground game to help his quarterback out. The Sam Howell experiment was a disaster. He should have been charged criminally for continuing to trot Wentz out there hurt, behind an extremely suspect offensive line, and continuing to run deep, long developing routes. McCarthy was and is his chance to prove to the world that he's the guy everyone says he is and thusfar those results have not been good. I'm just tired of this guy getting a pass because there's always an excuse. We had 3 f'n points with 13 minutes to go in the 4th quarter today at home against a very mediocre Bears defense. No more excuses. 

The Wilfs may be good owners, but they are terrible football men, and Kwesi does suck...do we have any argument there?

So, the previous playoff seasons didn't show anything in his QB coaching? Amazing. We've had to compete with a slew of QB, have wins with almost all of 'em during KOC's time, including wins with a discarded, injured veteran and a kid now with 5 starts.

I guess the passes thrown to JJ, getting him his OPOY honors were just Darnold's nature, or something, despite being thrown away 3 times previously.

His "pass" is admittedly getting openly questioned at this point, and he owns it in the press conferences. He'll be defining his own legacy as much as JJM will be defining his for the rest of this season.

supafreak84 wrote:

Are you referring to McCown who was sent packing in Carolina after he and Frank Reich almost single handedly ruined Bruce Young? Young got better when he left. 

If you are referring to KOC, what evidence do we have that he's a great developer of quarterbacks? A sandlot game by the Passtronaut, who got worse the more familiar he became with the playbook? Darnold? Watch any interview and he says things changed for him landing in SF and learning under Kyle Shanahan and sitting behind Purdy. We know KOC doesn't necessarily run a QB friendly system and is going to run what he's going to run with little deviation to the gameplan. Ask Wentz. I'm just tired of hearing about how great KOC is as an offensive guru and developer of quarterbacks when there's simply no evidence of that.

Spot on but you know how things work.  The narrative starts and then the narrative is reality even if it's false.

Nein needs to figure it the fk out or KOCs gonna get canned. I want KOC to stay but don’t give a shit about KAM.

Zanary wrote:

So, the previous playoff seasons didn't show anything in his QB coaching? Amazing. We've had to compete with a slew of QB, have wins with almost all of 'em during KOC's time, including wins with a discarded, injured veteran and a kid now with 5 starts.

No. He was gifted Kirk Cousins and a lot of talent from the former regime that lost a record number of one score games the year prior. It's not like he was bringing along a new quarterback or a roster void of talent. 

You want to give him credit for Darnold, fine, but I hope you also acknowledge his unwillingness to change things up or make adjustments in the two biggest games of the season against Detroit and the playoff loss to the Rams where Darnold was awful and pounded into oblivion. KOC held as much responsibility in those losses as Darnold did.

I think he still looks promising. Certainly still a work in progress, but the tools are there, but I think he'll get there once things slow down a bit for him and he's seen things more than once.

Regarding KOC, I think the QB whisperer stuff has been overstated. Goff was so great he got shipped out of LA under KOC. Stafford was already a stud. Cousins performed at a upper mid level without him and with him. After Cousins got injured, he tried and failed with all those QBs. Darnold was a feather in his cap, for sure, although you can give some of that to Shanahan, maybe. Daniel Jones, who knows. I totally agree that KOC has his schmeme and his QB just has to execute it. I think his scheme isn't the most newbie friendly and it doesn't seem like he's simplified it much to help his young and inexperienced in his scheme QBs. What gets JJM developed as fast as possible, IDK, but I think it probably would have been good to have simplified the offense for a period of time, while JJM works through these first handful of games issues.

To be fair, Kirko has been absolute shit since our divorce.

AGRforever wrote:
To be fair, Kirko has been absolute shit since our divorce.

So you're saying KOC broke him and discarded him just like Wentz /s

And I'll say one more thing about KOC. He was an offensive coordinator just twice prior to landing the Vikings head coaching job, and Never called plays. 2019 in Washington where head coach Jay Gruden called the plays before being fired. That Washington squad went 3-13 and the entire coaching staff was relieved of duty. KOC was picked up as the offensive coordinator in Los Angeles where he, once again, didn't call plays as that duty was handled by head coach Sean McVay. He didn't start actually calling plays before being hired in Minnesota. That's some Brad Childress/Eric Bienemy shit right there. You never want to hire someone who never called plays and were "hanger-on's" to head coaches who did call plays. I think that once again goes towards the inexperience of Kwesi and the Wilfs just not being football men who make wise football decisions. Me as an owner, I'd want to know how responsible that coach was for the success on the side of the ball they are coaching and that answer would have been "not much" relating to KOC.

I haven't completely thrown in the towel on KOC, but my support of him is wavering by the week