JJ McCarthy

AGRforever wrote:
To be fair, Kirko has been absolute shit since our divorce.

Kirko needs to admit that the injuries since his knee popped have signaled that it's time to hang up the cleats, and go spend all that Kohl's Cash.

supafreak84 wrote:

No. He was gifted Kirk Cousins and a lot of talent from the former regime that lost a record number of one score games the year prior. It's not like he was bringing along a new quarterback or a roster void of talent. 

You want to give him credit for Darnold, fine, but I hope you also acknowledge his unwillingness to change things up or make adjustments in the two biggest games of the season against Detroit and the playoff loss to the Rams where Darnold was awful and pounded into oblivion. KOC held as much responsibility in those losses as Darnold did.

I guess Seattle hasn’t figured out how to get Darnold to beat the Rams either lol. Their coach must be a moron too!

StickierBuns wrote:
He looked rough, not sure there's any other way to see it. There's good there but man....his accuracy is going to need to improve. I'm waiting for that breakout game that shows what he's got. Hopefully its coming. Stretches were brutal. I don't think at all KOC is looking to turn away from JJ but as I mentioned a few weeks ago, expect a KOC university QB student to be in play for competition in 2026....and the org. really does like Brosmer.

There was Uncle Sammy's shit game under the big lights/huge game. Horrible.

The more the pressure is on the more Sammy does Sammy stuff.  Still seeing some of it this year and have mentioned it here, but today it was the difference between winning and losing that game.  Too bad for Seattle, their coach is a good defensive mind and they are really good right now but come playoff time Uncle Sammy is going to take them down the drain one way or another.  

As for JJM, I remain perplexed by what I wrote about at the start of this thread.  Why does he suddenly have touch on the ball in the last two minutes after firing mostly errant, uncatchable heaters all afternoon?    Why is he throwing like that in the first place?   Mr. QB Whisperer needs to get his head out of his butt and get things on track... imho.

StickierBuns wrote:

Yep, JJ has that elusive 'take the ball, drive the length of the field and score a game winner at the end' gene in him....he needs to fill in the rest of the picture. Fingers crossed. Its been bumpy unfortunately.

He was an accurate passer at Michigan especially the middle field throws that he's missing now. That gives me hope that whatever is ailing him now is fixable.

StickierBuns wrote:

I guess its pretty much this for fans with the pitchforks:

Phil Mackey ?
@PhilMackey
·
13h
The biggest question for all Vikings stakeholders -- ownership, front office, Kevin O'Connell... even fans and media -- is this:

Do you have the patience and stomach to wait for the JJ McCarthy development process to play out?

Impossible to determine after five games, despite what many of you knee-jerkers will say.

It might take 20-30 games to see a more definitive answer. That gets us into 2027.

Are you OK riding that rollercoaster, swallowing hard on the multi-INT games, the sailed passes, etc.?

OR do you bail... and either hope to strike gold more quickly with another drafted QB... or hit the Sam Darnold honorary discount buy-low bin again?

Geoff Schwartz
@geoffschwartz
·
16h
McCarthy playing well in the two minute drill… teams with young QBs who are struggling in games should use tempo more often. The hurried nature of the two minute drill forced players to play faster and less thinking.

Obviously, don't listen to the fans.  If any team ever let their fans be their GM, they'd watch as the fans systematically traded every asset for picks until they had nothing left.  Fans have less patience than the Jets owner, but I guess this is probably why the Wilfs opted for a "competitive rebuild" as fans experiencing 5 games of rookie QBing was too much for many fans.  Can you imagine if they went full rebuild?

There is no path that will magically just work.  If the path existed, everyone would do it.  You get a rookie QB, there's probably a 50% chance of busting and 50% chance of having to grow into the role.  There's less than 1% chance Patrick Mahomes shows up and hits the ground running.  The idea that Darnold is a thing that can be repeated is kind of laughable.  Taking other teams failures and molding them into a Super Bowl caliber QB isn't something that is likely to work consistently.  For every Darnold, there's another Wentz or Geno Smith or Howell that just can't make the transition, and for as good as they look in the regular season, can they get the job done in the playoffs?  TBD.

That said, if there ever was an NFL landscape where a lower odds QB could win a SB, I think this is that year.

comet52 wrote:

...

As for JJM, I remain perplexed by what I wrote about at the start of this thread.  Why does he suddenly have touch on the ball in the last two minutes after firing mostly errant, uncatchable heaters all afternoon?    Why is he throwing like that in the first place?   Mr. QB Whisperer needs to get his head out of his butt and get things on track... imho.

I think the difference is that the end of game plays are simpler reads designed for him to hit the back of his drop and get rid of it, so everything is synced up.

The mid game plays he's standing back there making like 5 reads, his feet are bouncing around, he figures out where to throw it too late, and has to throw it faster to make up for being late.

That said, I don't know anything.

Darnold had his sh*t game yesterday. 4 int's in that loss to the Rams.
Just sayin'...

A lot of fans don't know what it is like to develop a qb. It takes more than 5 games. It's going to take time. There are a lot of unreasonable and unrealistic expectations out there as well. It is a learning year. The team is not focused on the playoffs and yeah that sucks but JJM has to play through the ups and downs and settle in. Some people are talking about tanking to draft another qb which makes no sense to me. Or getting another retread, no just no. They have to keep going on this path

What has me perplexed (alarmed) is that he looks to actually have regressed since the season began - not improved.

I think its worrisome as hell and that locker room has to be tense these days. I feel bad for him cause I know how much he wants to win.

He might be his own worse enemy right now. Lots of demons in between the ears.

I'm preparing myself for a 4/8 eventuality after the next two weeks. Its going to be rough the rest of the way most likely.

I've always believed there are two different kinds of accuracy. One is inherent. You either have it or you don't. And nothing is ever really going to change that. Trubisky is a good example of a QB without it. The other is extraneous, based on external forces. Darnold against the Lions last year. He came out way too amped up and all his throws were too hard and too high as a result. That's what I saw from JJ yesterday. He's got to learn to settle the fuck down. Makes me wonder if he might be better in the no-huddle. Less time to think. Less time to get in your head. 

His mental health might be the bigger problem now. Haven't looked at social media at all since the game, but I suspect the torches and pitchforks are out. For a 22-year-old kid who already has a history of depression, this could snowball. I'd probably give him one more game, and I understand he needs reps, but if it's more of the same against the Packers, we might be well advised to bench him for his own good.

J.J. McCarthy uncorked a wildly inaccurate pass in what became a series of them Sunday and immediately put both hands on his helmet in the universal sign of frustration. As boos reverberated inside U.S. Bank Stadium, the young Vikings quarterback sprinted off the field to the sideline.

That singular moment — an off-target pass to Justin Jefferson, followed by McCarthy’s exasperated reaction — told the story of a 19-17 loss to the Chicago Bears on Sunday.

“I just can’t miss those,” McCarthy said afterward. “This league is too hard. There were three or five decisions, plays, that I want back more than anything. That’s one of them.”

Outside of a desperation drive that produced a go-ahead touchdown in the final minute, McCarthy’s passing resembled a teenager just learning to drive. He threw the ball all over the place.

His misfires to open receivers were an alarming sight that left McCarthy visibly frustrated in his postgame news conference.

He completed only 16 of 32 passes for 150 yards with two interceptions and a 47.7 passer rating.

“I need to be better in doing my job at a higher level,” he said.

It is reasonable to expect growing pains and tough moments with a first-year starting quarterback. Bad games happen.

The concerning thing about McCarthy’s performance Sunday was that he benefited from solid pass protection and an effective running game. He had open receivers. He just threw the ball like a baseball pitcher who can’t locate the strike zone. Or a golfer who suddenly has the yips.

Throws that should be routine — even for an inexperienced quarterback — missed the mark by feet, not inches.

The first possession of the game was a tone setter. Jordan Addison gained separation down the field, but McCarthy badly underthrew him. He overshot Jefferson two plays later.

Then came back-to-back nightmarish series in the third quarter. One drive ended on the incompletion to Jefferson that drew a round of boos.

Next possession, McCarthy threw an ill-advised ball up for grabs to Addison into traffic and was fortunate the ball was dropped as two Bears defenders collided.

One errant throw led to another errant throw, until the cumulative effect resembled a snowball gaining intensity. The tension inside the stadium was palpable.

Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell stuck with McCarthy rather than give rookie Max Brosmer a shot. McCarthy collected himself to produce a drive that ended with a touchdown pass to Addison for the brief lead, but his accuracy issues are a recurring theme that require a deep dive into the root cause.

“He was frustrated, and I just kept telling him, ‘Feet and eyes, feet and eyes,’” O’Connell said, referring to his mechanics. “The thing that we saw throughout the week on the practice field, making it about that.”

McCarthy said the minor injury he suffered on his throwing hand last week against the Baltimore Ravens had no effect.

He is completing only 52.9% of his passes this season. O’Connell has talked extensively about the focus in practice on McCarthy’s mechanics and fundamentals, indicating that something tends to go haywire on gamedays.

“When he has great posture at the top of drops, he throws the ball really well,” O’Connell said.

Correcting a quarterback’s posture sure sounds a long way from McCarthy mastering the complexities of the position, but maybe this is just part of the process.

Two things stand out watching him operate: He throws every pass as if he’s trying to register 100 mph on a radar gun, and his accuracy is erratic. Some good, some not so.

“There are a lot of things that I have to improve on, and accuracy is one of them,” he said. “I promise you I’m going to wake up tomorrow and get ready to go to work on that.”

McCarthy called himself “obsessed” with the process of learning and seeking improvement. He’s also not one to hide his emotions on the field, and one can’t help but wonder whether that is somehow contributing to his accuracy problems, along with mechanics. He always looks revved up to the red line in his intensity. Just a theory anyway.

His misfires Sunday were compounded by drops by his receivers, two by Addison. That cannot happen with a young quarterback struggling to find a rhythm.

“I feel like he’s doing a great job,” Addison said. “He’s a young quarterback in this league. It’s a tough league to win. It’s on the supporting cast around him to help this thing go.”

That starts with McCarthy giving them catchable passes.

strib

medaille wrote:

I think the difference is that the end of game plays are simpler reads designed for him to hit the back of his drop and get rid of it, so everything is synced up.

The mid game plays he's standing back there making like 5 reads, his feet are bouncing around, he figures out where to throw it too late, and has to throw it faster to make up for being late.

That said, I don't know anything.

This is what I saw too. During the bad points yesterday he was back there shuffling SO much before every throw. Not clicking his feet together but just lots of extra movement forward and back. 

He also did not once look to tuck and run yesterday, that I saw. It was glaring to the point that I wonder if KO and Wes didn’t tell him to completely eliminate it from his game this week just to give him one less thing to think about. “Pretend you’re Goff for a week”. 

The other comment in this thread I agree with was YES! McCarthy finally had touch on the ball at the end. There was one pitch play to Mason that looked like JJM was shovel passing a snuggly wrapped baby over to him. And then the passes of course. Where the heck was that all day?

All that said, I also don’t know anything.

How much different does this game look if the receivers he hit in the hands catch those balls? Or special teams doesn't give up a huge return with the game on the line?

JJM absolutely deserves a bunch of the blame but if Addison catches that ball early in the game he walks in for a TD. Did Hock drop 2 or 3?

AGRforever wrote:
How much different does this game look if the receivers he hit in the hands catch those balls?  Or special teams doesn't give up a huge return with the game on the line?

JJM absolutely deserves a bunch of the blame but if Addison catches that ball early in the game he walks in for a TD.  Did Hock drop 2 or 3?

They didnt help, thats for sure...TJH is really deep in my fan doghouse this year, and I used to LOVE the guy. 

Not sure if they make a couple of those catches, the outcome of the game (or for JJM) is any different. 

We'll never know now.

MaroonBells wrote:
I've always believed there are two different kinds of accuracy. One is inherent. You either have it or you don't. And nothing is ever really going to change that. Trubisky is a good example of a QB without it. The other is extraneous, based on external forces. Darnold against the Lions last year. He came out way too amped up and all his throws were too hard and too high as a result. That's what I saw from JJ yesterday. He's got to learn to settle the fuck down. Makes me wonder if he might be better in the no-huddle. Less time to think. Less time to get in your head. 

His mental health might be the bigger problem now. Haven't looked at social media at all since the game, but I suspect the torches and pitchforks are out. For a 22-year-old kid who already has a history of depression, this could snowball. I'd probably give him one more game, and I understand he needs reps, but if it's more of the same against the Packers, we might be well advised to bench him for his own good.

Thats an alarming take...

On both JJM and the team; we're down to a very green Brosmer at that point.

He looked rough, not sure there's any other way to see it. There's good there but man....his accuracy is going to need to improve. I'm waiting for that breakout game that shows what he's got. Hopefully its coming. Stretches were brutal. I don't think at all KOC is looking to turn away from JJ but as I mentioned a few weeks ago, expect a KOC university QB student to be in play for competition in 2026....and the org. really does like Brosmer.
[hr]

pattersaur wrote:


I guess Seattle hasn’t figured out how to get Darnold to beat the Rams either lol. Their coach must be a moron too!

There was Uncle Sammy's shit game under the big lights/huge game. Horrible.

purplefaithful wrote:
What has me perplexed (alarmed) is that he looks to actually have regressed since the season began - not improved.

I think its worrisome as hell and that locker room has to be tense these days. I feel bad for him cause I know how much he wants to win.

He might be his own worse enemy right now. Lots of demons in between the ears.

I'm preparing myself for a 4/8 eventuality after the next two weeks. Its going to be rough the rest of the way most likely.

PF my advice would be to go rewatch the Bears and Falcons games lol. He has not regressed. He played great against Detroit but otherwise it's been mostly the same.

On MB saying bench him if he has another dud against GB-- Bro! Big disagree on that.

McCarthy had a bad game yesterday and has had a lot of stinkers at home so far. It's annoying but it shouldn't be disheartening. I'm still seeing enough flashes to know we have something there. Full faith it'll click. When? No clue. But I'm prepared to sacrifice a lot in order to get there. Sounds like many fans don't like that plan, and I guess that's okay. But this is what developing a QB looks like and every time I read someone else post a version of that take on here, it makes me happy.

The defense has been playing well and holding opponents to FGs instead of touchdowns. It's awesome. But without looking I gotta think we're DFL in INTs or just turnovers in general-- and we've played some QBs who love nothing more than to put out. Some improvement and/or luck in this area would be a welcome sight.

MaroonBells wrote:
I've always believed there are two different kinds of accuracy. One is inherent. You either have it or you don't. And nothing is ever really going to change that. Trubisky is a good example of a QB without it. The other is extraneous, based on external forces. Darnold against the Lions last year. He came out way too amped up and all his throws were too hard and too high as a result. That's what I saw from JJ yesterday. He's got to learn to settle the fuck down. Makes me wonder if he might be better in the no-huddle. Less time to think. Less time to get in your head. 

His mental health might be the bigger problem now. Haven't looked at social media at all since the game, but I suspect the torches and pitchforks are out. For a 22-year-old kid who already has a history of depression, this could snowball. I'd probably give him one more game, and I understand he needs reps, but if it's more of the same against the Packers, we might be well advised to bench him for his own good.

I would tend to agree on the thoughts of giving him one more game.   I think his issue is 90% mental and I dont know that you can throw yourself out of a funk like that without something that will reset his brain, and taking the pressure off for a game or two might be the ticket.  My only concern would be Brosmer comes in and the team starts winning like it did with Wentz.... but not because of Brosmer,  but is able to be slightly more functional and thats all we need... but then how do you go back to JJM this year if the team is winning?

JimmyinSD wrote:

I would tend to agree on the thoughts of giving him one more game.   I think his issue is 90% mental and I dont know that you can throw yourself out of a funk like that without something that will reset his brain, and taking the pressure off for a game or two might be the ticket.  My only concern would be Brosmer comes in and the team starts winning like it did with Wentz.... but not because of Brosmer,  but is able to be slightly more functional and thats all we need... but then how do you go back to JJM this year if the team is winning?

You don't...

But its not a reason not too give JJM a mental break if that's the medicine needed. 

purplefaithful wrote:

You don't...

But its not a reason not too give JJM a mental break if that's the medicine needed. 

I can see Brosmer playing more loose as he really has nothing to lose,  JJM came in with so much fanfare and sky high expectations and I believe he really wants to meet those expectations,  but in the process he is just too amped up,  there is talk about the game having to slow down,  but I dont think that is the issue here,  I think he has himself so screwed up and cant find a way to unscrew himself.

It doesn't appear to be a mechanics thing for JJ but a mental thing. I remember when the Diva Diggs forced a trade and we were all joking about how he would fare with Josh Allen who had the same issues with balls flying off course all the time. Things settled down for Allen and he's money these days. Will the same happen for McCarthy? Let's hope so.

comet52 wrote:


The more the pressure is on the more Sammy does Sammy stuff.  Still seeing some of it this year and have mentioned it here, but today it was the difference between winning and losing that game.  Too bad for Seattle, their coach is a good defensive mind and they are really good right now but come playoff time Uncle Sammy is going to take them down the drain one way or another.  

As for JJM, I remain perplexed by what I wrote about at the start of this thread.  Why does he suddenly have touch on the ball in the last two minutes after firing mostly errant, uncatchable heaters all afternoon?    Why is he throwing like that in the first place?   Mr. QB Whisperer needs to get his head out of his butt and get things on track... imho.

Yep, JJ has that elusive 'take the ball, drive the length of the field and score a game winner at the end' gene in him....he needs to fill in the rest of the picture. Fingers crossed. Its been bumpy unfortunately.