Perhaps our worst team stat, can it be fixed?

What will help is the offense sustaining drives, scoring points, and keeping them off the field. Otherwise it's flawed from a scheme perspective. Flores has always preferred the smaller penetrators up front in contrast to bigger lineman. Our linebackers have always been smaller guys who can run. It's a defense built to attack playing with a lead and that's when it's most affective. The offense had been dog shit this year, we haven't played much with a lead deminishing it's impact, and we are just susceptable to getting punched in the mouth against the run and that's exactly what's happened. People on this board almost pulled a muscle patting themselves on the back over Kwesi and company landing IPJ as an UDFA, well that guy needs to be put on a milk carton because he's been a complete non factor and lost his job. Is it possible to call an UDFA a bust? Seems appropriate

I think if there's one thing we CAN fix, or at least improve, it's our run defense. 

Vikings ranked 2nd in run defense last year, and it's not like we got smaller in the offseason. Vikings just have a few players who aren't playing the run well: Allen, Hargrave, Pace, among others. One good example is Byron Murphy. He graded 67 against the run last year and has a 45 grade against the run so far this year. That's a big drop off. Same guy, same defense, just not playing as well. Those things can improve.

Our DL is terrible so no surprise, however even if we stopped the run, it wouldn't matter, because with no pass rush or secondary good passing teams can throw the ball all over us.

Hey, c'm on now..
its only Gibbs & Montgomery this week!

supafreak84 wrote:
What will help is the offense sustaining drives, scoring points, and keeping them off the field. Otherwise it's flawed from a scheme perspective. Flores has always preferred the smaller penetrators up front in contrast to bigger lineman. Our linebackers have always been smaller guys who can run. It's a defense built to attack playing with a lead and that's when it's most affective. The offense had been dog shit this year, we haven't played much with a lead deminishing it's impact, and we are just susceptable to getting punched in the mouth against the run and that's exactly what's happened. People on this board almost pulled a muscle patting themselves on the back over Kwesi and company landing IPJ as an UDFA, well that guy needs to be put on a milk carton because he's been a complete non factor and lost his job. Is it possible to call an UDFA a bust? Seems appropriate

It’s a good point about complimentary ball or lack thereof this year.  I think we are 30th or so in offensive snaps and yet still minus 4, a horrible combination. 

I think the consensus was IPJ would be a very good special teams player with a chance to contribute on D. Once he started strong many celebrated his pass rushing ability and aggression but teams found his weakness in pass D and he has  fallen off in the run game to where he is not getting snaps. Looks like his ceiling is about what we thought coming out, ST and blitz packages.

MaroonBells wrote:
I think if there's one thing we CAN fix, or at least improve, it's our run defense. 

Vikings ranked 2nd in run defense last year, and it's not like we got smaller in the offseason. Vikings just have a few players who aren't playing the run well: Allen, Hargrave, Pace, among others. One good example is Byron Murphy. He graded 67 against the run last year and has a 45 grade against the run so far this year. That's a big drop off. Same guy, same defense, just not playing as well. Those things can improve.

Murphy has been a huge disappointment. I agreed we shouldn’t pay Bynum a huge bag, but I didn’t want Murph resigned simply because he is being paid top tier money but is mostly a slot guy. I thought those $ could land a more versatile corner. Flo obviously though different or there were no better choices available

purplefaithful wrote:

Hey, c'm on now..
its only Gibbs & Montgomery this week!

Minnesota’s defense has changed in the 10 months since the last trip to Detroit. The Vikings (3-4) have lost back-to-back games as they travel to face the back-to-back NFC North-champion Lions (5-2) on Sunday. In their four losses this season, the Vikings have been run on by both stars and backups. As the schedule presents graduate-level quarterbacks, they have failed those tests. So far, little help has come from their own offense.

The multitude of defensive problems, compounded by injuries, are stark for an expensive and veteran-laden group that expected to play deep into January.

“We’re not satisfied with where we’re at,” Smith said. “We need to do a better job stopping the run, making more plays on the ball, tighter in coverage, not giving up as many explosives.

“It sounds like a lot when I say it,” he added.

That’s not a small amount of baggage to carry into Detroit, where quarterback Jared Goff and running back Jahmyr Gibbs are showing that they were built to last despite offensive coordinator Ben Johnson leaving to coach the Bears this season.

Only the Colts and Cowboys are averaging more than the Lions’ 30.7 points per game this season. At least it’s slightly lower than the 31.2 points they’ve averaged in five straight wins over the Vikings.

Safety Josh Metellus said there’s no “panic mode” setting in, insisting the Vikings see an opportunity to change the trajectory of the season.

“Itching bad,” Metellus said. “I circle this game every year, especially when you play at Ford Field, too.”

He added that when you get “whooped as much times as we got the past couple years, you kind of get a little bit more antsy when it comes up.

“You knock off the top of the division,” Metellus said, “you put yourself in a good spot as we head toward the end of the year.”

Defensive coordinator Brian Flores has not yet recreated the magic of last year’s fifth-ranked scoring defense that meshed well, stopped the run and took advantage of a prolific offense that gifted them leads and pass-happy opponents.

Some issues may be rooted to decisions in March, when the Vikings let safety Camryn Bynum walk in free agency and still ended up with the league’s most expensive roster, costing over $336 million this season according to OverTheCap.com. Defensive tackles Jonathan Allen and Javon Hargrave signed for a combined $42 million guaranteed and have not produced to their paychecks. Hargrave’s role has decreased since the Week 6 bye, ceding reps to Levi Drake Rodriguez.

Allen, who is tied for the team lead with 13 run stops, said he feels his performance has been ”good.”

“I’m not going to say it’s been great,” he said. “I’m not going to say it’s been terrible. I think for me it’s just doing anything I can to help this team … playing the run, rushing the passer, finishing on the quarterback.”

Inconsistency, injuries and, in Smith’s case, an illness have forced coaches back to the drawing board. “We’ve got to find what’s the best style of play for this year’s group,” Flores said, “and in some instances it’s been like, ‘OK, we found it.’ And some others, there’s certainly some improvements we need to make.”

Some recent coverage busts stemmed from “a lack of preparation, by players including myself,” cornerback Isaiah Rodgers said.

Are veterans pressing? Are they trying to do too much? “I think that can creep in, but I don’t think that’s been the issue,” Smith said. “Just executing on a higher level is what we need to do.”

Step one is getting back to stopping the run. It’s baked into the Flores formula, yet the Vikings are allowing 4.6 yards per carry on first down, ranking 21st in the NFL. That’s not how it’s supposed to work for one of the “most aggressive” defenses on first and second downs, said Cody Alexander, a former high school football coach turned author and host of the “Let’s Talk Ball!” podcast.

Flores often sends pressures on early downs to force quarterbacks to hold the ball on third down.

“They’ve flipped the script in the NFL for that,” Alexander said. “Their whole goal is to get you into third and longs, because Flores has ownership. “When they can’t win early,” he said, “it just compounds the problems.”

Offenses have leaned on big guys to attack the Vikings.

Defenders have seen the pattern develop since the Falcons and Steelers successfully loaded up with multiple tight ends and extra offensive linemen in Weeks 2 and 4. It’s a way offenses prevent the “overload” that the Vikings force with run blitzes, Flores said.
Chargers running back Kimani Vidal gained more than half of his 117 rushing yards against the Vikings behind at least two tight ends, according to Sports Info Solutions.

That’s among Detroit’s many strengths with Gibbs and running back David Montgomery.

“We’ve got to do a better job defending it,” Flores said. “I say that plainly. It’s something that we’re obviously spending some time on. Detroit has it, but everybody’s got it in some form or fashion. Is it en vogue? Yeah, I would say so – against us, for sure.”

The Lions’ continuity on offense – and the Vikings’ developing chemistry on defense – are also key factors. A reworked Vikings defense is still getting on the same page about how opponent run games change when they see Minnesota on the schedule.

“Trying to make sure everybody understands,” Metellus said, “there’s only a certain number of runs that coaches would comfortably call, and we just got to understand how to play those. I think we’re in a good spot.”

Goff, the 10th-year veteran whose teams are 7-3 against the Vikings, keeps directing one of the NFL’s most prolific attacks despite losing his play caller, Johnson, and Pro Bowl center, Frank Ragnow, in the offseason.

Goff’s familiarity with receiver Amon-Ra St. Brown, whose seven touchdown grabs are tied for the league lead, and tight end Sam LaPorta extends to Flores’ defense, which he’s defeated four times in a row.

Goff told Detroit reporters this week he expects the standard Vikings pressures even after Chargers quarterback Justin Herbert and Eagles quarterback Jalen Hurts recently diced up Flores’ blitzes.

“That’s their whole thing,” Goff said. “They want to disrupt your timing and get into the backfield. It’s up to us up front and for me to get the ball out.”

Third down has been a weakness under new Lions play caller John Morton, whom Vikings defenders say has largely maintained the schemes established under Johnson. But Morton hasn’t found the same play-calling touch on third down, where Detroit ranks 22nd by converting around 37%.

Getting to third down is easier said than done against a balanced Lions attack that averages eight yards per throw (fifth) and 4.5 yards per run (12th). “If you load up on the run,” Flores said, “they’re going to pass. If you load up on the pass, they’re going to run it. You blitz, they’ve got screens.”

One potential reinforcement, outside linebacker Andrew Van Ginkel, would be huge, edge rusher Jonathan Greenard said.

Van Ginkel, who is listed as questionable, practiced fully this week and hopes to return for the first time since Sept. 21, when he last played through a lingering neck injury that occurred in training camp. Van Ginkel had 11.5 sacks and two interceptions returned for touchdowns last season, but his impact and absence are felt beyond the stats.

Along with linebacker Blake Cashman, who missed four games because of a hamstring injury, Van Ginkel is “that guy that’s keeping everybody calm,” Greenard said. He can “weather the storm” by “understanding Flo’s scheme and understanding how we’re going to be attacked.”

STRIB

supafreak84 wrote:
What will help is the offense sustaining drives, scoring points, and keeping them off the field. Otherwise it's flawed from a scheme perspective. Flores has always preferred the smaller penetrators up front in contrast to bigger lineman. Our linebackers have always been smaller guys who can run. It's a defense built to attack playing with a lead and that's when it's most affective. The offense had been dog shit this year, we haven't played much with a lead deminishing it's impact, and we are just susceptable to getting punched in the mouth against the run and that's exactly what's happened. People on this board almost pulled a muscle patting themselves on the back over Kwesi and company landing IPJ as an UDFA, well that guy needs to be put on a milk carton because he's been a complete non factor and lost his job. Is it possible to call an UDFA a bust? Seems appropriate

Agreed.  I just don't think there's anyway that this defense is going to look legit good, when our offense is sitting on the bench because they couldn't sustain a drive all game, or worse, turned the ball over in their own end.  I do think they're not playing well and will get better, but they just aren't an overwhelming defense that can shut down other teams.  This defense needs the offense to be putting pressure on the other team pressing them to try harder and be in more obvious passing downs.

What I am trying to figure out and haven't seen or heard much about is that the Vikings game plan against the Eagles was to stop Barkley and the run game.  That worked against one of the best RBs and scrambling QBs in the NFL.  We forced Hurts to beat us with his arm, which he did and our secondary made too many mistakes.

I realize each team is different, but what could be used from that gameplan against every other team, especially Detroit?  I would think Detroit would be easier to gameplan against since Goff cannot scramble and you don't need a spy.  That said, maybe the spy moves to Gibbs/Montgomery more frequently.

medaille wrote:

Agreed.  I just don't think there's anyway that this defense is going to look legit good, when our offense is sitting on the bench because they couldn't sustain a drive all game, or worse, turned the ball over in their own end.  I do think they're not playing well and will get better, but they just aren't an overwhelming defense that can shut down other teams.  This defense needs the offense to be putting pressure on the other team pressing them to try harder and be in more obvious passing downs.

Viking offense ranks 24th in time of possession this year and 27th in 3rd down conversions. The offense is doing the defense no favors

Pace is leading the league in missed tackles.

in a contact year..... ?

Something's way off.

Mattyman wrote:
Pace is leading the league in tackles.

in a contact year..... ?

Something's way of.

Where did you hear that? Pace does not lead the league in tackles. Not even close.

Jordyn Brooks of the Miami Dolphins is leading the NFL in total tackles with 93 for the 2025 season.

Other top players include Bobby Wagner of the Washington Commanders, who has 83 total tackles, and Jamien Sherwood of the New York Jets and C.J. Gray of the Tennessee Titans, who are tied with 75 tackles.
Jordyn Brooks (Miami Dolphins): 93 total tackles
Bobby Wagner (Washington Commanders): 83 total tackles
Jamien Sherwood (New York Jets): 75 total tackles
C.J. Gray (Tennessee Titans): 75 total tackles

NFL Player Stat Leaders, 2025 Regular Season - ESPN
The 2025 NFL Regular Season Player stat leaders on ESPN. Includes stat leaders in every category from passing and rushing to tackl...

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In the 2025 NFL season, Ivan Pace Jr. has recorded 24 total tackles, which includes 23 solo tackles and 1 assisted tackle. He also has 1 sack and 2 forced fumbles for the 2025 season.
Solo Tackles: 23
Total Tackles: 24
Sacks: 1
Forced Fumbles: 2
Ivan Pace Jr. - NFL News, Rumors, & Updates | FOX Sports

We've been terrible converting third down and keeping our D off the field. Getting AVG back will help. But the back end is lousy no matter how you slice it. And the guys up front aren't delivering, especially the free agents and the priciest draft pick in Viking history Dallas Turner. Flores' schemes can only do so much when you don't have the high end talent delivering results.

Fascinating from AI.

Im sure Spock would luv the perspective lol

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As of November 1, 2025 (partway through the 2025 NFL season), the Minnesota Vikings' worst statistics are primarily in pass protection and third-down efficiency

Offense

Sack Rate Allowed: The Vikings have one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL due to injuries, resulting in a high sack rate. Their 11.6% sack rate allowed ranks 30th in the league.
Third-Down Conversion Percentage: The team ranks near the bottom of the league in converting third downs, with a conversion rate around 31-33.33%, ranking 27th-31st in the NFL.
Passing Success on 3rd & Short: The Vikings have the worst passing success rate in the NFL when facing third-and-3 or fewer situations.
Total Offense (Yards/Game): The team's total offense ranks 26th in the league, averaging 296.6 yards per game.
Quarterback Performance: Both starting QBs (J.J. McCarthy and Carson Wentz) ranked near the bottom of the league in "bad throw" rate (passes that couldn't be caught with normal effort), and McCarthy had the worst EPA per dropback in the league early in the season

Defense

Points Allowed per Game: The defense has struggled with points allowed, averaging 28.61 points allowed per game, ranking among the worst in the league.
Dropback EPA Allowed: Over a recent four-game span, the defense ranked 30th in the NFL in Dropback Expected Points Added (EPA) allowed.
Run Defense Success Rate: The run defense has been a weak point, ranking 27th in success rate against the run

In summary, the most significant struggles are related to the offensive line's inability to protect the quarterback and the resulting impact on the team's ability to sustain drives and convert key third-down opportunities

MaroonBells wrote:

Where did you hear that? Pace does not lead the league in tackles. Not even close.

My bad. Left out a key word adjective.

"Sack Rate Allowed: The Vikings have one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL due to injuries"
I'm not sure it is due to injuries anymore. They may just suck! I hope I'm wrong.

Mattyman wrote:

My bad. Left out a key word adjective.

LOL. Got it. Yes, I definitely believe Pace leads the league in missed tackles. 

He's a tough call. Without him, the Vikings don't have that almost constant presence behind the LOS. With him, we get penetration but can't make the play. I think he was benched against Philly as a punishment for his missed tackles early in the season. His PFF tackling grade against Atlanta and Cleveland, for example, was in the 20s. He got some snaps against the Chargers and his tackling grade went up to 76. That's a massive improvement. It will be interesting to see if he starts getting more snaps.