Kyle Hamilton

During the game, the broadcasters discussed the multiple positions Hamilton has played and then mentioned when asked what was his favorite position, Hamilton had responded back with something like whatever the coaches had him play that was his favorite position.

JR44 wrote:
Just brutal to hear them say on TNF that the Ravens are saying Kyle Hamilton is on his way to the hall of fame and how incredibly in awe everyone is of him. Easiest pick for a first year GM right?!  Thanks Kwesi!  And he just keeps surprising us with more awful picks.  So we could have Hamilton, Verse or Quinyon Mitchell and a 3rd, 4th and 5th, instead of Cine and Turner.  Hello Wilfs!

The Eagles took Mitchell 22nd. If Kwesi had stayed at 23 we could have had Arnold, but not Mitchell or Verse (taken 19th). Still, the point remains valid: Hamilton and Arnold, plus #167 in'24 and our 2025 3rd and 4th round picks. Ouch.

On the one hand, every team has its draft regrets. However, the Hamilton one is particularly inexcusable, because it was the rare convergence of: (1) biggest team need; (2) best player available (at any position); and (3) substantial perceived gap between the player you could have selected and the next best available option at that position. The fact that Kwesi exceeded even that trifecta by trading down for a bust AND giving a division rival a high pick to better its team AND missing on the remainder of the draft capital received in the trade? Just wow.

Why fixate on this?

medaille wrote:
Why fixate on this?

KH is the poster child for this regime's ineptitude on drafting and building the team. 

But yah, at some point re-opening the wound doesn't help healing and a # of teams passed on a HOF'er. Happens every single year. 

I get it though that sometimes fans need to vent. Vikings have had plenty of draft misses in history (Sapp, Allen, Donald etc.) Hamilton is just another one.

purplefaithful wrote:

KH is the poster child for this regime's ineptitude on drafting and building the team. 

But yah, at some point re-opening the wound doesn't help healing and a # of teams passed on a HOF'er. Happens every single year. 

I get it though that sometimes fans need to vent. Vikings have had plenty of draft misses in history (Sapp, Allen, Donald etc.) Hamilton is just another one.

The Kyle Hamilton miss might be especially egregious for the reasons mentioned by Porsche, but every team in the NFL has a list of these a mile long.

I was really disappointed on draft night when that trade went down but I thought at the time it was a green, rookie g.m. thinking he's going to outsmart the NFL room and maybe he'd quickly learn better. But it was a red flag worth watching as he has not built a draft room or process that is succeeding by any measure after 4 years.

Don't know where it goes from here.

JR44 wrote:
Just brutal to hear them say on TNF that the Ravens are saying Kyle Hamilton is on his way to the hall of fame and how incredibly in awe everyone is of him. Easiest pick for a first year GM right?!  Thanks Kwesi!  And he just keeps surprising us with more awful picks.  So we could have Hamilton, Verse or Quinyon Mitchell and a 3rd, 4th and 5th, instead of Cine and Turner.  Hello Wilfs!

I have said it OVER and OVER when we passed on Hamilton an OBVIOUS pick the organization had the wrong people making the decisions.  PERIOD.  Not many times does a team have a GLARING NEED and one of the best players in the draft is there that MEETS THAT NEED and our Vikings screwed it up.  Unreal.   You are 100% correct JR44.

I screamed bloody murder when the Vikings too Darrin Nelson over Marcus Allen, the same for Derrick Alexander over Warren Sapp, this screw up was JUST as bad.

medaille wrote:
Why fixate on this?

It is not a fixation on Hamilton, but an indicator of why this team is in the position it currently is, because of 4 years of complete ineptitude of drafting due to a GM who was hired with no personnel experience.

I get that there’s this perception that our team hasn’t been getting enough value from our draft picks.

I don’t think that Kwesi is making bad draft picks at a higher rate than any other team. I think if you look at the players drafted in the top 3 rounds, he’s hitting at a rate that’s pretty close to normal. I think if you group rounds 4-UDFA, he’s hitting at a rate that’s pretty close to normal.

I think the main driver that’s been hurting the team as far as draft picks go, has been the trades which has limited the total number of high draft picks. One trade, for Hockenson, I think was a net gain in value, but there’s that what if factor. The trades for JJM and Turner, are really a TBD right now. If JJM turns into a stud. Then those trades are draft capital very well spent. If not, it’s probably just the cost of getting a QB. Turner feels like a duplicate of Van Ginkle. In hindsight, you’d probably want to put that draft pick into a different position, but I don’t think anyone had Van Ginkle blowing up as much as he did.

I think a lot of what feels bad is us picking one player and the other option being as good or better. We trade for Hockenson, but La Porta’s just as good but cheaper. We trade down, Hamilton is good, but Cine was a bust. We got Turner, but Verse has been better so far. While JJM hasn’t really seen the field due to injuries. Like if you don’t compare to that one unicorn you missed, but like to the 5 players on each side of the draft pick how bad do you really feel?

medaille wrote:
I get that there’s this perception that our team hasn’t been getting enough value from our draft picks.

I don’t think that Kwesi is making bad draft picks at a higher rate than any other team.  I think if you look at the players drafted in the top 3 rounds, he’s hitting at a rate that’s pretty close to normal.  I think if you group rounds 4-UDFA, he’s hitting at a rate that’s pretty close to normal.

I think the main driver that’s been hurting the team as far as draft picks go, has been the trades which has limited the total number of high draft picks.  One trade, for Hockenson, I think was a net gain in value, but there’s that what if factor.  The trades for JJM and Turner, are really a TBD right now.  If JJM turns into a stud.  Then those trades are draft capital very well spent.  If not, it’s probably just the cost of getting a QB.  Turner feels like a duplicate of Van Ginkle.  In hindsight, you’d probably want to put that draft pick into a different position, but I don’t think anyone had Van Ginkle blowing up as much as he did.

I think a lot of what feels bad is us picking one player and the other option being as good or better.  We trade for Hockenson, but La Porta’s just as good but cheaper.  We trade down, Hamilton is good, but Cine was a bust.  We got Turner, but Verse has been better so far.  While JJM hasn’t really seen the field due to injuries.  Like if you don’t compare to that one unicorn you missed, but like to the 5 players on each side of the draft pick how bad do you really feel?

Yeah I'm not obsessed with the ones who got away like some on here, but the drafting overall has been bad and like you said, the Big Swing trades have actually been wildly unsuccessful to date. Calling Hockenson a net gain and calling KAM an average drafter is extremely charitable in both instances. I like KAM and continue to think he'll improve the draft stuff, but I'm more than fine saying he's been bad at it. If Turner is an AVG clone, something must've got lost in translation.

This team can rally and win games I truly believe it. But if things do go sideways/south on the season, there have been plenty of warning signs along the way.

Kwesi is currently a F in drafting.  That said it was not close to a consensus on Hamilton, but there were some here. Most here wanted Jameson near bust  Williams

medaille wrote:
I get that there’s this perception that our team hasn’t been getting enough value from our draft picks.

I don’t think that Kwesi is making bad draft picks at a higher rate than any other team.  I think if you look at the players drafted in the top 3 rounds, he’s hitting at a rate that’s pretty close to normal.  I think if you group rounds 4-UDFA, he’s hitting at a rate that’s pretty close to normal.

I think the main driver that’s been hurting the team as far as draft picks go, has been the trades which has limited the total number of high draft picks.  One trade, for Hockenson, I think was a net gain in value, but there’s that what if factor.  The trades for JJM and Turner, are really a TBD right now.  If JJM turns into a stud.  Then those trades are draft capital very well spent.  If not, it’s probably just the cost of getting a QB.  Turner feels like a duplicate of Van Ginkle.  In hindsight, you’d probably want to put that draft pick into a different position, but I don’t think anyone had Van Ginkle blowing up as much as he did.

I think a lot of what feels bad is us picking one player and the other option being as good or better.  We trade for Hockenson, but La Porta’s just as good but cheaper.  We trade down, Hamilton is good, but Cine was a bust.  We got Turner, but Verse has been better so far.  While JJM hasn’t really seen the field due to injuries.  Like if you don’t compare to that one unicorn you missed, but like to the 5 players on each side of the draft pick how bad do you really feel?

Check out the stats that were posted in this thread, it is mind-blowing how much worse he has been than every team in are division. Out of 29 picks, only 2 starters, it is unreal.  

https://vikefans.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=22087

According to Co-pilot, here’s the league average rate of each draft pick in becoming a starter based on round.

Round% of Picks Who Became Starters
Round 1 - 70.55%
Round 2 - 49.04%
Round 3 - 28.80%
Round 4 - 20.06%
Round 5 - 14.91%
Round 6 - 8.70%
Round 7 - 5.93%

In Kwesi’s time frame (20-24), here’s how many draft picks he’s taken per round and how many starters were gotten out of those picks.
Round 1 - 4 : 3 Addison, JJM, Turner (JJM will be a starter as almost all 1st round QBs are given enough chances to be a starter, and I think Turner would start on most teams that didn’t have two pro bowl edges)
Round 2 - 2 : 1 (Ingram)
Round 3 - 2 : 1 (Blackmon)
Round 4 - 3 : 0
Round 5 - 4 : 0
Round 6 - 4 : 2 (Nailor, Reichard)
Round 7 - 4 : 0

Here’s how many starters the average NFL GM would have drafted with the same number of picks the Vikings did
Round 1 - 2.82
Round 2 - 0.98
Round 3 - 0.58
Round 4 - 0.60
Round 5 - 0.72
Round 6 - 0.35
Round 7 - 0.24

By my math, Kwesi has drafted 7 starters (20-24).
The league average GM would have drafted 6.3 starters

2022 was a total disaster. 0 for 10. 2023 was quite a bit better, going 1 for 6, which is typical by NFL standards. 2024 and 2025 are incomplete and I don't know how anyone could label them any different.

KAM and his staff's ability to draft well (or not) will depend largely on how the 2024 class turns out. It's just too early to tell. Not just for JJ and Dallas, but LDR as well.

Hamilton was the consensus best player on the board at the time and only fell down that far due to position and his 40 time was very average. The thing that kills me though is if Kwesi really wanted to add a playmaking safety so bad, he literally had the best prospect since Sean Taylor fall right in his lap and what does he do, trades the pick to a division rival and we draft a much lesser draft prospect in Cine who was one of the biggest busts in team history. Anybody with a pulse knew everything about that entire sequence of events sucked.

medaille wrote:
According to Co-pilot, here’s the league average rate of each draft pick in becoming a starter based on round.

Round% of Picks Who Became Starters
Round 1 - 70.55%
Round 2 - 49.04%
Round 3 - 28.80%
Round 4 - 20.06%
Round 5 - 14.91%
Round 6 - 8.70%
Round 7 - 5.93%

In Kwesi’s time frame (20-24), here’s how many draft picks he’s taken per round and how many starters were gotten out of those picks.
Round 1 - 4 : 3 Addison, JJM, Turner  (JJM will be a starter as almost all 1st round QBs are given enough chances to be a starter, and I think Turner would start on most teams that didn’t have two pro bowl edges)
Round 2 - 2 : 1 (Ingram)
Round 3 - 2 : 1 (Blackmon)
Round 4 - 3 : 0
Round 5 - 4 : 0
Round 6 - 4 : 2 (Nailor, Reichard)
Round 7 - 4 : 0

Here’s how many starters the average NFL GM would have drafted with the same number of picks the Vikings did
Round 1 - 2.82
Round 2 - 0.98
Round 3 - 0.58
Round 4 - 0.60
Round 5 - 0.72
Round 6 - 0.35
Round 7 - 0.24

By my math, Kwesi has drafted 7 starters (20-24).
The league average GM would have drafted 6.3 starters

Did you check the link I had provided for real data - 
Kwesi has drafted 29 players as GM of the Vikings. Those players have combined to start 156 out of a
possible 1290 games for the Vikings (12.1%).
The rest of the NFC North since 2022
Lions 34.1%
Packers 30.1%
Bears 28.3%

I do not consider your stats valid or how you skewed the numbers, but let's play that game.  I would think they are looking at legit full time starters, not a guy who had to start due to injury.  Turner is not a starter, never has been and highly doubt he would start on another team, he is a complete non-factor on field and getting close to toping Cine as Kwesi's worst pick, Blackmon was never a starter, not even with team anymore, Nailor is not a starter, are we really referring to a kicker as a starter and Ingram was so bad he was benched and traded, so don't see how he is counted as a starter.  Out of 4 drafts we have one legit starter in Addison, hopefully a 2nd in Jackson and hopefully a 3rd with JJ

Not sure how Kwesi's drafting is remotely defensible.

JR44 wrote:

Did you check the link I had provided for real data - 
Kwesi has drafted 29 players as GM of the Vikings. Those players have combined to start 156 out of a
possible 1290 games for the Vikings (12.1%).
The rest of the NFC North since 2022
Lions 34.1%
Packers 30.1%
Bears 28.3%

Nobody’s going to argue that the Vikings have drafted well, but this stat is misleading. The main reason the Vikings perform poorly in this metric is because of the terrible 2022 draft. Only Ed Ingram from that class has started. Ingram accounts for 41 starts in 515 opportunities, which puts the Vikings well below average if “starts” is your metric. So yes, 2022 was a disastrous draft. That’s what this stat is mostly about.

However, the next year, the Vikings hit on Addison. But even he has missed 8 starts over three years due to injury or suspension. The second pick was Blackmon, who, after starting a few games as a rookie, missed every start in 2024 with an ACL. The following year included McCarthy, Turner, and Khyree Jackson, all of whom missed dozens of potential starts for various reasons. We all know what those reasons are, but none of them are an indictment on the player or the pick. At least not yet. Even their latest draft pick, Donovan Jackson, has missed games due to injury. We just have to wait and see on those players. 

Another point is that this metric doesn’t account for several starts by players who weren’t drafted, like Ivan Pace and Jalen Redmond.

JR44 wrote:

Did you check the link I had provided for real data - 
Kwesi has drafted 29 players as GM of the Vikings. Those players have combined to start 156 out of a
possible 1290 games for the Vikings (12.1%).
The rest of the NFC North since 2022
Lions 34.1%
Packers 30.1%
Bears 28.3%

I do not consider your stats valid or how you skewed the numbers, but let's play that game.  I would think they are looking at legit full time starters, not a guy who had to start due to injury.  Turner is not a starter, never has been and highly doubt he would start on another team, he is a complete non-factor on field and getting close to toping Cine as Kwesi's worst pick, Blackmon was never a starter, not even with team anymore, Nailor is not a starter, are we really referring to a kicker as a starter and Ingram was so bad he was benched and traded, so don't see how he is counted as a starter.  Out of 4 drafts we have one legit starter in Addison, hopefully a 2nd in Jackson and hopefully a 3rd with JJ

Not sure how Kwesi's drafting is remotely defensible.

Nailor's fair,  not sure how I included that.  All the others would be considered a starter for all the other teams in the league.  What is the source of your stat?  What is the league average number of games started by players they drafted since 2022?  Can I see the results for every team?