Message from Vikings PR DEPT

I mean this was supposed to be JJM learning year, so no expectations should be had really

Vikergirl wrote:
I mean this was supposed to be JJM learning year, so no expectations should be had really

I agree, but was hoping to be more entertained along the way. This is a bit like purgatory with JJM not playing or getting necessary reps...

Oh well, on to TNF...

Vikergirl wrote:
I mean this was supposed to be JJM learning year, so no expectations should be had really

Coming off a 13-4 year, I had expectations this team would be better than this.  We signed two new starters to the OL and DL, which were suppose to be huge upgrades and yet both lines are not improved, if not worse.  We can talk about Wentz all day, but bottom line we had enough offense to win this game if we had gotten a decent defensive performance.  4 years of awful drafting and a very poor coached defense has a lot more to do with the decline than this being a JJ learning year or having a backup QB.

JR44 wrote:

Coming off a 13-4 year, I had expectations this team would be better than this.  We signed two new starters to the OL and DL, which were suppose to be huge upgrades and yet both lines are not improved, if not worse.  We can talk about Wentz all day, but bottom line we had enough offense to win this game if we had gotten a decent defensive performance.  4 years of awful drafting and a very poor coached defense has a lot more to do with the decline than this being a JJ learning year or having a backup QB.

Well sure but here we are. A lot of things have contributed to the plan going off the rails. The offense dug the hole and buried the team. Playcalling, bone headed penalties and shit show Wentz in the first half. The defense fought hard in the second half and got some stops, they got gassed. The offense got 1 touchdown so yeah there is that. Reichard had most of the points. Kudos to Wentz for running for 2 first downs. That blown coverage by Rodgers sucked. Hoping for better but definitely felt there would be some regression

I wasn’t expecting much as far as record goes, I was willing to give a season for JJM growth, but just seeing him sit on the sidelines and only playing two games so far just feels stupid. He’s hurt, I get it. So what. Might as well drink a glass of warm water.

Kwesi isn’t very good at drafting. The whole organization has a rah rah feel, and is only good every other year. Winning draws better free agents, good drafting builds a team. The facilities will only get you so far.

At this point I’d rather have Joe Flacco playing QB.

Just hypothetically speaking...at what point would you pull the plug on the Kwesi/Grigson experiment? I know the Wilfs won't do it, but at what point as a fan would you do it? He has been wildly unsuccessful when it comes to the draft and because of that he's had to go out and spend big in free agency to fill those misses, and now those older veterans just aren't producing. We are four years in and haven't come close to winning a playoff game. How much longer would you continue down this path if you were running things before pulling the plug? I am well on record as saying I never would have hired him in the first place and the deficiencies I pointed out on his resume have played out pretty consistently. I think if this year plays out and we still don't know what we have at quarterback and we are worse off rosterwise than what we ended the season with last year, extension be damned...a move needs to be made

I dont think they do anything with KAM after this season, regardless of record...

Two years from now? All bets off imo.

supafreak84 wrote:
Just hypothetically speaking...at what point would you pull the plug on the Kwesi/Grigson experiment? I know the Wilfs won't do it, but at what point as a fan would you do it? He has been wildly unsuccessful when it comes to the draft and because of that he's had to go out and spend big in free agency to fill those misses, and now those older veterans just aren't producing. We are four years in and haven't come close to winning a playoff game. How much longer would you continue down this path if you were running things before pulling the plug? I am well on record as saying I never would have hired him in the first place and the deficiencies I pointed out on his resume have played out pretty consistently. I think if this year plays out and we still don't know what we have at quarterback and we are worse off rosterwise than what we ended the season with last year, extension be damned...a move needs to be made

The Wilfs don't make changes unless there is a scandal of some sort or players not getting enough hugs from the coaches. It will remain the same for a long time. (As long as the stadium is full)

kmillard wrote:

The Wilfs don't make changes unless there is a scandal of some sort or players not getting enough hugs from the coaches. It will remain the same for a long time. (As long as the stadium is full)

Agreed, they are a reactionary ownership group and always have been. Nothing will even be considered until the boo birds come out at the home games. However, I think that potential could be there by years end. We'll see how it goes, but his draft record speaks for itself.

supafreak84 wrote:
Just hypothetically speaking...at what point would you pull the plug on the Kwesi/Grigson experiment? I know the Wilfs won't do it, but at what point as a fan would you do it? He has been wildly unsuccessful when it comes to the draft and because of that he's had to go out and spend big in free agency to fill those misses, and now those older veterans just aren't producing. We are four years in and haven't come close to winning a playoff game. How much longer would you continue down this path if you were running things before pulling the plug? I am well on record as saying I never would have hired him in the first place and the deficiencies I pointed out on his resume have played out pretty consistently. I think if this year plays out and we still don't know what we have at quarterback and we are worse off rosterwise than what we ended the season with last year, extension be damned...a move needs to be made

The Wilfs and Andrew Miller Baseball Analytics Guy wanted to do it this way with KAM.  I wasn't opposed to the hire but if you're going all-analytics at the g.m. position you needed to hire a really good personnel guy and fix a scouting department that hadn't really pulled off a great draft since maybe 2015.   Neither of those things happened.  They hired Grigson who was a certified disaster at Indy and the scouting department wasn't really turned over, just expanded which hasn't caused any improvement -- it's arguably a lot worse based on results.   

Thing is as kmillard pointed out, the Wilfs won't change a thing unless there is loud blowback from the fanbase.  I would never have hired Grigson so when would I pull the plug is sort of moot.  KOC/KAM managed two seasons with a lot of wins and got themselves new contracts but personally I see a lot of issues with both.   It's an interesting question you asked but sadly, ownership imo has been the problem here for all of the 20 years they've had the team.  I've viewed most of their hires and moves with great skepticism and over time that's proven correct as we haven't produced any real contending teams outside of 2009.   The franchise of futility has simply continued doing business as usual.

supafreak84 wrote:
Just hypothetically speaking...at what point would you pull the plug on the Kwesi/Grigson experiment? I know the Wilfs won't do it, but at what point as a fan would you do it? He has been wildly unsuccessful when it comes to the draft and because of that he's had to go out and spend big in free agency to fill those misses, and now those older veterans just aren't producing. We are four years in and haven't come close to winning a playoff game. How much longer would you continue down this path if you were running things before pulling the plug? I am well on record as saying I never would have hired him in the first place and the deficiencies I pointed out on his resume have played out pretty consistently. I think if this year plays out and we still don't know what we have at quarterback and we are worse off rosterwise than what we ended the season with last year, extension be damned...a move needs to be made

Actually I would say at this point right here and now. For me it has more to do with basic philosophy of ownership. The Wilf's have hired people with out a football background to run their organization. They gambled on a stockbroker. They set up a triangle of authority. They hired a head coach that nobody else would hire! They are gamblers hoping that a nontraditional approach will pave the road to a championship. It's more than hiring a GM who can't identify talent in the draft and brings in free agents with an injury history all too often. It's an attitude that you can outsmart the established best and brightest minds in the game without hiring the best and the brightest. 
It's a physical game and even the Rams superbowl winning team, which may have appeared to outsmart its opponents, had a strong physical core to support its skill players. Vikings don't have that.
The only way I see this group becoming competitive is if JJ comes back, stays healthy, and lights it up. What are the odds of that happening?

I’m a ride or die guy on KOC. If you want to reboot the scouting and GM positions have at it.

I think there's been some great points made here, but these are the facts on the Wilfs. They are rich fans who know as much about football as they do about rocket ships and that's apparent from the way they've ran the organization since they bought it. They've done some great things with the stadium and facilities that have put us towards the top in terms of organizational rankings, but they really don't know what they are doing when it comes to actual football and hiring the right people

supafreak84 wrote:
I think there's been some great points made here, but these are the facts on the Wilfs. They are rich fans who know as much about football as they do about rocket ships and that's apparent from the way they've ran the organization since they bought it. They've done some great things with the stadium and facilities that have put us towards the top in terms of organizational rankings, but they really don't know what they are doing when it comes to actual football and hiring the right people

Which owners do? The best owners usually are the ones who don’t meddle, and the Wilfs seems to be pretty hands-off. 

I’m not personally ready to fire anyone after a 6 pt loss to the defending champs. Also (replying to someone earlier in the thread…) our defense is poorly coached now? News to me.

I’m not trying to cape for the Wilfs but if KAM is as bad as you all say, a 6 pt loss yesterday should be commended! KO must be a genius.

Can we fire the guy who injured the bulk of the OL?

pattersaur wrote:

Which owners do? The best owners usually are the ones who don’t meddle, and the Wilfs seems to be pretty hands-off. 

I’m not personally ready to fire anyone after a 6 pt loss to the defending champs. Also (replying to someone earlier in the thread…) our defense is poorly coached now? News to me.

I’m not trying to cape for the Wilfs but if KAM is as bad as you all say, a 6 pt loss yesterday should be commended! KO must be a genius.

Good points.  Could you imagine the board if we were as bad as Miami, Tennessee, Raiders,...........

StickierBuns wrote:

JMO but its VERY knee jerk to be wanting to fire people right now. I mean I know a good portion of the fanbase is so ready to be upset with something the minute it goes wrong, but its a week to week league. Better things can usually be a week away.

This board has become a roller coaster after wins and losses lol

This team can hang with anyone.  We're talented.  Mistakes (penalties and turnovers) are killing us right now.  We've also had a bunch of injuries to key players and we're seeing the result of that. On the field chemistry is a work in progress.

Hopefully we can get JJ McCarthy back out there, get some other guys back and build some momentum heading into the mid-point of the season.

It's never as bad as us fans want to make it.  The biggest goal this season was to figure out what we have in JJM.  Nothing else matters until we have the QB.

I dont know about firing him right now, but I know I wouldnt have given him more than a 1 year extension on his contract that would have only given him the previously contracted 26 draft, the extension would have given him the 26 season for that draft class to have an opportunity to show.... although I doubt very much that there would be much to look at.

hogjowlsjohnny wrote:

Actually I would say at this point right here and now. For me it has more to do with basic philosophy of ownership. The Wilf's have hired people with out a football background to run their organization. They gambled on a stockbroker. They set up a triangle of authority. They hired a head coach that nobody else would hire! They are gamblers hoping that a nontraditional approach will pave the road to a championship. It's more than hiring a GM who can't identify talent in the draft and brings in free agents with an injury history all too often. It's an attitude that you can outsmart the established best and brightest minds in the game without hiring the best and the brightest. 
It's a physical game and even the Rams superbowl winning team, which may have appeared to outsmart its opponents, had a strong physical core to support its skill players. Vikings don't have that.
The only way I see this group becoming competitive is if JJ comes back, stays healthy, and lights it up. What are the odds of that happening?

There's no such thing as hiring "the best and the brightest".  The “best and the brightest” aren’t available.  You are either gambling on a guy that has never proved it at the position you want to fill or you’re gambling on a guy that got fired from someone else for not being good enough and you’re hoping that something is different now.

StickierBuns wrote:

JMO but its VERY knee jerk to be wanting to fire people right now. I mean I know a good portion of the fanbase is so ready to be upset with something the minute it goes wrong, but its a week to week league. Better things can usually be a week away.

We all know nobody is getting fired right now, but I think depending on how the rest of the season plays out, it's fair to assess where we are as an organization, how his draft record comes into play, and was the right guy hired to build this thing? If the answer is no and the teams trajectory is down, I think changes should be discussed. He wasn't left with an empty cupboard talent wise with the roster. Yes there was some cap issues to address, but are we better off now than when he took over four years ago? I cant say that we are. We are 37-20 under KOC/Kwesi but haven't won a playoff game yet and I'd say as of now with our division it's going to be a tough ask this year. A lot will depend on how the rest of the season goes, but I think we might be at a point (4 years in) where some changes are discussed with the front office.