We gotta talk...Treadwell

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Tom Moore" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"twgerber" said: When you have Diggs and Theilen you don't need to look elsewhere very often.

Rudolph was ignored as well.  1 catch.  Diggs and thielen attacked the outside deep.  Cook ran the ball well, so the possession type of WR wasn't needed much.

That said, he certainly isn't lighting the world on fire. 

I just don't think Treadwell is intended to be a possession receiver.  I think he was going to be the deep threat who ran good routes and could leap.  He is just such a non-factor.  He is the best blocker of the receivers, so maybe that is it.  But most passing games count on a pass catcher, not a blocker.

I believe that once Floyd is back, you will see little of Treadwell outside of special teams.

I disagree,  if that was the intent then who ever wanted him needs to be looking for a job.  Treadwells game never was going to translate to a deep vert receiver,   he is a big bodied guy with a huge range and iffy top end in terms of speed.  He is best suited at slants, curls, back shoulder throws and other routes that allow him to use that wide frame to sheild away a defender.  He is going to succeed or fail on the trustworthyness of his hand and his ability to make crisp cuts on precision routes.

Agree. He was pretty good at going deep in college, but you could tell that he didn't have the "juice" to do that on the next level. It wasn't just poor speed, it was almost ZERO athleticism. I had hoped that was due to lingering injury issues, but I'm not so sure anymore. He still has a chance, but it will be as a physical, Bolden-like possession receiver. And with a player like Floyd, who can be that AND a deep threat, coming back soon, Treadwell might just get lost in the numbers. Might want to consider trading this guy while he still has some of that first-round shine. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Tom Moore" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"twgerber" said: When you have Diggs and Theilen you don't need to look elsewhere very often.

Rudolph was ignored as well.  1 catch.  Diggs and thielen attacked the outside deep.  Cook ran the ball well, so the possession type of WR wasn't needed much.

That said, he certainly isn't lighting the world on fire. 

I just don't think Treadwell is intended to be a possession receiver.  I think he was going to be the deep threat who ran good routes and could leap.  He is just such a non-factor.  He is the best blocker of the receivers, so maybe that is it.  But most passing games count on a pass catcher, not a blocker.

I believe that once Floyd is back, you will see little of Treadwell outside of special teams.

I disagree,  if that was the intent then who ever wanted him needs to be looking for a job.  Treadwells game never was going to translate to a deep vert receiver,   he is a big bodied guy with a huge range and iffy top end in terms of speed.  He is best suited at slants, curls, back shoulder throws and other routes that allow him to use that wide frame to sheild away a defender.  He is going to succeed or fail on the trustworthyness of his hand and his ability to make crisp cuts on precision routes.

Agree. He was pretty good at going deep in college, but you could tell that he didn't have the "juice" to do that on the next level. It wasn't just poor speed, it was almost ZERO athleticism. I had hoped that was due to lingering injury issues, but I'm not so sure anymore. He still has a chance, but it will be as a physical, Bolden-like possession receiver. And with a player like Floyd, who can be that AND a deep threat, coming back soon, Treadwell might just get lost in the numbers. Might want to consider trading this guy while he still has some of that first-round shine. 

they are going to have to showcase him to get anything in return.  if you cant get a late mid round pick pack from a first rounder then you might as well hang onto him and hope that something clicks IMO,  he is cheap depth at this point.... but I doubt you get anything until he shows the league something to get a little excited about.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Tom Moore" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"twgerber" said: When you have Diggs and Theilen you don't need to look elsewhere very often.

Rudolph was ignored as well.  1 catch.  Diggs and thielen attacked the outside deep.  Cook ran the ball well, so the possession type of WR wasn't needed much.

That said, he certainly isn't lighting the world on fire. 

I just don't think Treadwell is intended to be a possession receiver.  I think he was going to be the deep threat who ran good routes and could leap.  He is just such a non-factor.  He is the best blocker of the receivers, so maybe that is it.  But most passing games count on a pass catcher, not a blocker.

I believe that once Floyd is back, you will see little of Treadwell outside of special teams.

I disagree,  if that was the intent then who ever wanted him needs to be looking for a job.  Treadwells game never was going to translate to a deep vert receiver,   he is a big bodied guy with a huge range and iffy top end in terms of speed.  He is best suited at slants, curls, back shoulder throws and other routes that allow him to use that wide frame to sheild away a defender.  He is going to succeed or fail on the trustworthyness of his hand and his ability to make crisp cuts on precision routes.

Agree. He was pretty good at going deep in college, but you could tell that he didn't have the "juice" to do that on the next level. It wasn't just poor speed, it was almost ZERO athleticism. I had hoped that was due to lingering injury issues, but I'm not so sure anymore. He still has a chance, but it will be as a physical, Bolden-like possession receiver. And with a player like Floyd, who can be that AND a deep threat, coming back soon, Treadwell might just get lost in the numbers. Might want to consider trading this guy while he still has some of that first-round shine. 

they are going to have to showcase him to get anything in return.  if you cant get a late mid round pick pack from a first rounder then you might as well hang onto him and hope that something clicks IMO,  he is cheap depth at this point.... but I doubt you get anything until he shows the league something to get a little excited about.

I think we'd be surprised at what we'd get for him if we floated him now. BIG name receiver taken in the 1st round, getting paid next to nothing. Plenty of questions about opportunity given injury, competition, etc. I'm sure there are GMs and coaches out there who loved the guy...and God knows there are always coaches who arrogantly think player X would be a different player under their guidance. But with every passing weak his value goes down. Make him and Keenum a package deal. I wonder how the PUP timeline syncs with the trade deadline. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

I think we'd be surprised at what we'd get for him if we floated him now. BIG name receiver taken in the 1st round, getting paid next to nothing. Plenty of questions about opportunity given injury, competition, etc. I'm sure there are GMs and coaches out there who loved the guy...and God knows there are always coaches who arrogantly think player X would be a different player under their guidance. But with every passing weak his value goes down. Make him and Keenum a package deal. I wonder how the PUP timeline syncs with the trade deadline. 

I've only made it through most of the first half of the game watching strictly Treadwell.  A couple things surprised me.  1.  He was sent deep A LOT.  His job was to clear his guy out plain and simple.  He's obviously at least the third read on those routes.  Maybe 4th.  2.  He was asked to block A LOT on his routes.  He would be 15-20 yards down field and head directly towards a safety and block him on passing plays, never looking for the ball.  To my eyes,  he's being asked to sell his soul to block downfield and for the most part he's doing it at an OK level.  He could definitely stand to be a bit more aggressive on his blocking at times, but he's in the way.  I also believe I've seen at least 1 play where he ran the wrong route.  2 guys in basically the same location.... He turns around almost motions like he knows he screwed up.    

@"AllBS" said: I've only made it through most of the first half of the game watching strictly Treadwell.  A couple things surprised me.  1.  He was sent deep A LOT.  His job was to clear his guy out plain and simple.  He's obviously at least the third read on those routes.  Maybe 4th.  2.  He was asked to block A LOT on his routes.  He would be 15-20 yards down field and head directly towards a safety and block him on passing plays, never looking for the ball.  To my eyes,  he's being asked to sell his soul to block downfield and for the most part he's doing it at an OK level.  He could definitely stand to be a bit more aggressive on his blocking at times, but he's in the way.  I also believe I've seen at least 1 play where he ran the wrong route.  2 guys in basically the same location.... He turns around almost motions like he knows he screwed up.    

That tells me the coaches have zero faith in his ability as a WR.  You don't draft a wideout in the first round to run down the field and block on passing plays.  I would get whatever you can for him at this point.  Plus it would prevent us from having to cut a WR who has actually shown some promise like Adams or Coley when Floyd and possibly Teddy come back.

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"AllBS" said: I've only made it through most of the first half of the game watching strictly Treadwell.  A couple things surprised me.  1.  He was sent deep A LOT.  His job was to clear his guy out plain and simple.  He's obviously at least the third read on those routes.  Maybe 4th.  2.  He was asked to block A LOT on his routes.  He would be 15-20 yards down field and head directly towards a safety and block him on passing plays, never looking for the ball.  To my eyes,  he's being asked to sell his soul to block downfield and for the most part he's doing it at an OK level.  He could definitely stand to be a bit more aggressive on his blocking at times, but he's in the way.  I also believe I've seen at least 1 play where he ran the wrong route.  2 guys in basically the same location.... He turns around almost motions like he knows he screwed up.    

That tells me the coaches have zero faith in his ability as a WR.  You don't draft a wideout in the first round to run down the field and block on passing plays.  I would get whatever you can for him at this point.  Plus it would prevent us from having to cut a WR who has actually shown some promise like Adams or Coley when Floyd and possibly Teddy come back.

@"MaroonBells" said: 

they are going to have to showcase him to get anything in return.  if you cant get a late mid round pick pack from a first rounder then you might as well hang onto him and hope that something clicks IMO,  he is cheap depth at this point.... but I doubt you get anything until he shows the league something to get a little excited about.

I think we'd be surprised at what we'd get for him if we floated him now. BIG name receiver taken in the 1st round, getting paid next to nothing. Plenty of questions about opportunity given injury, competition, etc. I'm sure there are GMs and coaches out there who loved the guy...and God knows there are always coaches who arrogantly think player X would be a different player under their guidance. But with every passing weak his value goes down. Make him and Keenum a package deal. I wonder how the PUP timeline syncs with the trade deadline. 

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"AllBS" said: I've only made it through most of the first half of the game watching strictly Treadwell.  A couple things surprised me.  1.  He was sent deep A LOT.  His job was to clear his guy out plain and simple.  He's obviously at least the third read on those routes.  Maybe 4th.  2.  He was asked to block A LOT on his routes.  He would be 15-20 yards down field and head directly towards a safety and block him on passing plays, never looking for the ball.  To my eyes,  he's being asked to sell his soul to block downfield and for the most part he's doing it at an OK level.  He could definitely stand to be a bit more aggressive on his blocking at times, but he's in the way.  I also believe I've seen at least 1 play where he ran the wrong route.  2 guys in basically the same location.... He turns around almost motions like he knows he screwed up.    

That tells me the coaches have zero faith in his ability as a WR.  You don't draft a wideout in the first round to run down the field and block on passing plays.  I would get whatever you can for him at this point.  Plus it would prevent us from having to cut a WR who has actually shown some promise like Adams or Coley when Floyd and possibly Teddy come back.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: 

they are going to have to showcase him to get anything in return.  if you cant get a late mid round pick pack from a first rounder then you might as well hang onto him and hope that something clicks IMO,  he is cheap depth at this point.... but I doubt you get anything until he shows the league something to get a little excited about.

I think we'd be surprised at what we'd get for him if we floated him now. BIG name receiver taken in the 1st round, getting paid next to nothing. Plenty of questions about opportunity given injury, competition, etc. I'm sure there are GMs and coaches out there who loved the guy...and God knows there are always coaches who arrogantly think player X would be a different player under their guidance. But with every passing weak his value goes down. Make him and Keenum a package deal. I wonder how the PUP timeline syncs with the trade deadline. 

Why are you sure of that? He was the last WR drafted in round 1, 23rd overall, so...

• 22 teams passed him by. OK, maybe they all didn't need WRs, but...
• Other teams who needed WRs (Browns, Redskins, Texans) picked different ones when he was available - Texans got ahead of us to do so, suggesting they thought even we wanted their target (Will Fuller) more than Treadwell.
• Giants and Saints needed WRs and they waited for 2nd-rounders who were better.

Browns had a "big name player taken in the 1st round, getting paid next to nothing" in OL Cameron Erving, who didn't succeed, and they traded him for a 5th-round pick this summer. That's about what Treadwell is worth unless he starts to produce soon.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: 

they are going to have to showcase him to get anything in return.  if you cant get a late mid round pick pack from a first rounder then you might as well hang onto him and hope that something clicks IMO,  he is cheap depth at this point.... but I doubt you get anything until he shows the league something to get a little excited about.

I think we'd be surprised at what we'd get for him if we floated him now. BIG name receiver taken in the 1st round, getting paid next to nothing. Plenty of questions about opportunity given injury, competition, etc. I'm sure there are GMs and coaches out there who loved the guy...and God knows there are always coaches who arrogantly think player X would be a different player under their guidance. But with every passing weak his value goes down. Make him and Keenum a package deal. I wonder how the PUP timeline syncs with the trade deadline. 

Why are you sure of that? He was the last WR drafted in round 1, 23rd overall, so...

• 22 teams passed him by. OK, maybe they all didn't need WRs, but...
• Other teams who needed WRs (Browns, Redskins, Texans) picked different ones when he was available - Texans got ahead of us to do so, suggesting they thought even we wanted their target (Will Fuller) more than Treadwell.
• Giants and Saints needed WRs and they waited for 2nd-rounders who were better.

Browns had a "big name player taken in the 1st round, getting paid next to nothing" in OL Cameron Erving, who didn't succeed, and they traded him for a 5th-round pick this summer. That's about what Treadwell is worth unless he starts to produce soon.

No, he's worth more than that. Just for the reason that he's only in his 2nd season, and there is still some question about opportunity with the injury last season and the numbers game this season. Cam Erving is a 3rd year player who had every opportunity to show his worth and failed. And they STILL got a 5th round pick for him. That alone should help dial in LT's value, which I'd put in the 3rd round right now. But that won't last. 

And I base this opinion on knowledge of the draft and the market, not some kind of belief in Treadwell's talent. Don't forget, I said many times on this board that he was the most overrated player in the 2016 draft. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"AllBS" said: I've only made it through most of the first half of the game watching strictly Treadwell.  A couple things surprised me.  1.  He was sent deep A LOT.  His job was to clear his guy out plain and simple.  He's obviously at least the third read on those routes.  Maybe 4th.  2.  He was asked to block A LOT on his routes.  He would be 15-20 yards down field and head directly towards a safety and block him on passing plays, never looking for the ball.  To my eyes,  he's being asked to sell his soul to block downfield and for the most part he's doing it at an OK level.  He could definitely stand to be a bit more aggressive on his blocking at times, but he's in the way.  I also believe I've seen at least 1 play where he ran the wrong route.  2 guys in basically the same location.... He turns around almost motions like he knows he screwed up.    

That tells me the coaches have zero faith in his ability as a WR.  You don't draft a wideout in the first round to run down the field and block on passing plays.  I would get whatever you can for him at this point.  Plus it would prevent us from having to cut a WR who has actually shown some promise like Adams or Coley when Floyd and possibly Teddy come back.

so why dont they deactivate Treadwell and play Adams or Coley?  Is it because they arent ready and he is?  Treadwell hasnt shown much yet and maybe never will,  but he has shown more than either of those two in real games against real NFL DBs.

@"greediron" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"AllBS" said: I've only made it through most of the first half of the game watching strictly Treadwell.  A couple things surprised me.  1.  He was sent deep A LOT.  His job was to clear his guy out plain and simple.  He's obviously at least the third read on those routes.  Maybe 4th.  2.  He was asked to block A LOT on his routes.  He would be 15-20 yards down field and head directly towards a safety and block him on passing plays, never looking for the ball.  To my eyes,  he's being asked to sell his soul to block downfield and for the most part he's doing it at an OK level.  He could definitely stand to be a bit more aggressive on his blocking at times, but he's in the way.  I also believe I've seen at least 1 play where he ran the wrong route.  2 guys in basically the same location.... He turns around almost motions like he knows he screwed up.    

That tells me the coaches have zero faith in his ability as a WR.  You don't draft a wideout in the first round to run down the field and block on passing plays.  I would get whatever you can for him at this point.  Plus it would prevent us from having to cut a WR who has actually shown some promise like Adams or Coley when Floyd and possibly Teddy come back.

Not to dispute what you say about Treadwell, but what have Adams and Coley shown?  Coley flashed a bit in the preseason against 3rd teamers.  Adams didn't even flash much against them.  So please tell me why Adams and Coley (2 late round picks) are so precious.

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"AllBS" said: I've only made it through most of the first half of the game watching strictly Treadwell.  A couple things surprised me.  1.  He was sent deep A LOT.  His job was to clear his guy out plain and simple.  He's obviously at least the third read on those routes.  Maybe 4th.  2.  He was asked to block A LOT on his routes.  He would be 15-20 yards down field and head directly towards a safety and block him on passing plays, never looking for the ball.  To my eyes,  he's being asked to sell his soul to block downfield and for the most part he's doing it at an OK level.  He could definitely stand to be a bit more aggressive on his blocking at times, but he's in the way.  I also believe I've seen at least 1 play where he ran the wrong route.  2 guys in basically the same location.... He turns around almost motions like he knows he screwed up.    

That tells me the coaches have zero faith in his ability as a WR.  You don't draft a wideout in the first round to run down the field and block on passing plays.  I would get whatever you can for him at this point.  Plus it would prevent us from having to cut a WR who has actually shown some promise like Adams or Coley when Floyd and possibly Teddy come back.

Not to dispute what you say about Treadwell, but what have Adams and Coley shown?  Coley flashed a bit in the preseason against 3rd teamers.  Adams didn't even flash much against them.  So please tell me why Adams and Coley (2 late round picks) are so precious.

Like I mentioned above, I'm not nearly as high on Adams as I am on Coley, but both have shown more in a few preseason games than I've ever seen out of Treadwell, in preseason or the regular reason.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"AllBS" said: I've only made it through most of the first half of the game watching strictly Treadwell.  A couple things surprised me.  1.  He was sent deep A LOT.  His job was to clear his guy out plain and simple.  He's obviously at least the third read on those routes.  Maybe 4th.  2.  He was asked to block A LOT on his routes.  He would be 15-20 yards down field and head directly towards a safety and block him on passing plays, never looking for the ball.  To my eyes,  he's being asked to sell his soul to block downfield and for the most part he's doing it at an OK level.  He could definitely stand to be a bit more aggressive on his blocking at times, but he's in the way.  I also believe I've seen at least 1 play where he ran the wrong route.  2 guys in basically the same location.... He turns around almost motions like he knows he screwed up.    

That tells me the coaches have zero faith in his ability as a WR.  You don't draft a wideout in the first round to run down the field and block on passing plays.  I would get whatever you can for him at this point.  Plus it would prevent us from having to cut a WR who has actually shown some promise like Adams or Coley when Floyd and possibly Teddy come back.

so why dont they deactivate Treadwell and play Adams or Coley?  Is it because they arent ready and he is?  Treadwell hasnt shown much yet and maybe never will,  but he has shown more than either of those two in real games against real NFL DBs.

The better question is: What has Treadwell shown? Jarius Wright has been way more productive in the same role. Honestly, its mostly irrelevant as soon as Floyd is back, Treadwell will be the #4 guy....but he really should be the #5 behind Wright. 

A 1st round draft pick that is, in essence, the #5 WR on a NFL team? Stupid bad.

@"StickyBun" said: The better question is: What has Treadwell shown? Jarius Wright has been way more productive in the same role. Honestly, its mostly irrelevant as soon as Floyd is back, Treadwell will be the #4 guy....but he really should be the #5 behind Wright. 

A 1st round draft pick that is, in essence, the #5 WR on a NFL team? Stupid bad.

It's not optimal, but we currently do have the #2 and #3 receivers in the league...I'd be more disappointed if we were actively trying to get the ball to Treadwell and he was dropping it, not getting open, or running the wrong route...I'm not too concerned, Air Purple seems to be just fine for now...

@"BarrNone55" said:

@"StickyBun" said: The better question is: What has Treadwell shown? Jarius Wright has been way more productive in the same role. Honestly, its mostly irrelevant as soon as Floyd is back, Treadwell will be the #4 guy....but he really should be the #5 behind Wright. 

A 1st round draft pick that is, in essence, the #5 WR on a NFL team? Stupid bad.

It's not optimal, but we currently do have the #2 and #3 receivers in the league...I'd be more disappointed if we were actively trying to get the ball to Treadwell and he was dropping it, not getting open, or running the wrong route...I'm not too concerned, Air Purple seems to be just fine for now...

It's a much better situation than two years ago. Remember asking the same questions about Cordarelle - but when our "top" WRs were Mike Wallace and Charles Johnson (until Diggs got his chance)? With unproductive WRs ahead of him, no known health issues (and plenty of speed), CP was a much bigger mystery. 

@"StickyBun" said: The better question is: What has Treadwell shown? Jarius Wright has been way more productive in the same role. Honestly, its mostly irrelevant as soon as Floyd is back, Treadwell will be the #4 guy....but he really should be the #5 behind Wright. 

A 1st round draft pick that is, in essence, the #5 WR on a NFL team? Stupid bad.