Misc. Thoughts: Draft+

The Khyree Jackson pick has me worried... for one, his lack of starting experience (14 starts) and being 25 yrs old... seems like an odd selection after we burnt all our picks on the trade ups. I'd have traded back because Brendan Rice (WR), Wingo (DT), and some IOL were available.

LDR is a Hercules-like pick, good comp on that. Lots of people calling him the steal of the draft. The Athletic even did a piece on him prior to the draft (Player X).

BOLD Prediction...

JJ McCarthy will be the BEST QB we've ever drafted in the top 10.

BOOM

StickierBuns wrote:
No doubt JJM is KOC's project. He's the least polished dude of this year's 1st round crop. All this talk about him starting sooner rather than later is pure silliness. He's going to need all of the reps and learning moments he can get. Trust me, the best thing to happen to JJM will be Darnold having some success this season. JJM just turned 21 years old in January, he's a baby. KOC will not waver from his development plan, whatever that is. He was the 5th QB taken for a reason. Not trying to throw water on his selection, everyone knows that this is my guy, but everyone will need to temper their expectations for a bit. There's a cautionary tale right there on the Viking's roster: Sam Darnold.

I think of the difference between Cousins' year 1 in this offense compared to year 2 (and why I was super excited for year 3). It's a complex offense. 

Vikings would be fools if they let JJ see the field this year. When he sees live bullets for the 1st time, I want him knowing the offense inside and out, having spent a full year and a half in QB school.

Agree about JJ, super young and the least polished of the 6 coming out of the gate. He needs to learn how to be a pro and the Vikings offense is as complex as it gets.

I am slowing morphing into a Darnold supporter. Frankly, I wish it was KC here doing the teaching.

My guess at the September depth chart is an easy one:
Darnold
Mullens
JJ

purplefaithful wrote:

My guess at the September depth chart is an easy one:
Darnold
Mullens
JJ

I think this is really an interesting question.  I think the Vikes may trade Mullens and keep Hall but I wouldn't be opposed to the above as it thoroughly insulates JJ from playing too early in case of a Darnold injury.  That being said, how would it play to fans and inside the locker room if JJ started off 3rd string?  How would the Minny press react to that (and would that be damaging)?

I also feel good about Darnold, he was really highly thought off coming out of USC.  It will be interesting to see how KOC handles coaching simultaneously Darnold and JJ.

VikingOracle wrote:

I think this is really an interesting question.  I think the Vikes may trade Mullens and keep Hall but I wouldn't be opposed to the above as it thoroughly insulates JJ from playing too early in case of a Darnold injury.  That being said, how would it play to fans and inside the locker room if JJ started off 3rd string?  How would the Minny press react to that (and would that be damaging)?

I also feel good about Darnold, he was really highly thought off coming out of USC.  It will be interesting to see how KOC handles coaching simultaneously Darnold and JJ.

Agree. I think Darnold is going to raise a few eyebrows in this offense. Not Cousins level, but somewhere between Mullens and Cousins. 

As far as JJ being QB3 to start, I fully expect it. I remember a few folks were mocking Will Levis when he started as QB3 behind Malik Willis. But of course he did. He was a year behind Willis in terms of knowing their offense. That didn't last long and at some point this year JJ may move ahead of Mullens, but I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't. And I don't think it would mean a damn thing.

MaroonBells wrote:

I think of the difference between Cousins' year 1 in this offense compared to year 2 (and why I was super excited for year 3). It's a complex offense. 

Vikings would be fools if they let JJ see the field this year. When he sees live bullets for the 1st time, I want him knowing the offense inside and out, having spent a full year and a half in QB school.

VikingOracle wrote:
Rodriguez:  I am fascinated by this choice simply because it is a long line of picks and signings trying to capture the John Randle lighting in the bottle.  The minute I looked at info on LDR, I thought of Hercules Mata-afa.  There is enough info to make the pick intriguing and a storyline to follow during training camp (unlike Jurgens who seems to be a very vanilla pick).

Can't help but be excited about LDR when you hear Ryan Grigson talk about him. I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about a 7th rounder this way.

MAD GAINZ wrote:
The Khyree Jackson pick has me worried... for one, his lack of starting experience (14 starts) and being 25 yrs old...  seems like an odd selection after we burnt all our picks on the trade ups.  I'd have traded back because Brendan Rice (WR), Wingo (DT), and some IOL were available.

Jackson is the kind of player you take a swing at in the 4th, with his size and speed, if he was younger and had taken a more traditional route to where he is now, he may have been a 1/2 rounder.  This is a kid who started for Saban in a national championship game, he had some issues which took him off course, but came back to Oregon and put it all together there and is on the right track now.  I was hoping for a DT here, there was the DT who was also from Oregon, but think this was a solid pick with huge upside, he probably has the most physical talent of any CB on the roster.

I actually disagree on JJM being the least polished of this group. He had the least experience, but as far as reading defenses and making smart decisions, I’d say he’s well ahead of some of the other guys. I think he’s more polished than people realize and definitely more polished than any 20 year old just turned 21 that I’ve seen.

Caleb Williams will start day one and he has a ways to go on reading defenses/coverages. Most high school QB’s are better at protecting the ball. The guy had over 30 fumbles if I remember right. JJ is light years ahead of him at stuff like this. Caleb can probably get by in his enormous talent, but he has a long way to go in several areas that are pretty important.

JJ has far superior mechanics and footwork as well as decision making compared to Drake Maye and I expect Drake will stand a fair chance of starting for the Pats.

I think it’s more likely that KOC’s offensive system is the bigger hurdle and not so much JJ’s development as a QB. It’s going to be super interesting to see how it goes throughout the summer.

Havoc wrote:
I actually disagree on JJM being the least polished of this group. He had the least experience, but as far as reading defenses and making smart decisions, I’d say he’s well ahead of some of the other guys. I think he’s more polished than people realize and definitely more polished than any 20 year old just turned 21 that I’ve seen.

Caleb Williams will start day one and he has a ways to go on reading defenses/coverages. Most high school QB’s are better at protecting the ball. The guy had over 30 fumbles if I remember right. JJ is light years ahead of him at stuff like this. Caleb can probably get by in his enormous talent, but he has a long way to go in several areas that are pretty important.

JJ has far superior mechanics and footwork as well as decision making compared to Drake Maye and I expect Drake will stand a fair chance of starting for the Pats.

I think it’s more likely that KOC’s offensive system is the bigger hurdle and not so much JJ’s development as a QB. It’s going to be super interesting to see how it goes throughout the summer.

Agreed, what he CAN do right now translates to the NFL.  Throwing over the middle, utilizing the intermediate part of the field, has the arm strength and accuracy to make the sideline throws, can extend plays with his legs.  He just doesn't have a lot of volume.  If he did, we never would have been able to get him at 10.

Then when you consider he didn't have any highly drafted WRs or TEs to throw to like Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels, or Michael Penix...  makes his college tape even more impressive.

Another thing that has stood out in the post draft interviews...  he has a presence.  Confident, doesn't trip on his words, engaging.  Seeing some of Daniels, Drake, and Penix it's a lot of "ums", "likes", and more of a nervous vibe.  May not mean anything, but just an observation.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

Agreed, what he CAN do right now translates to the NFL.  Throwing over the middle, utilizing the intermediate part of the field, has the arm strength and accuracy to make the sideline throws, can extend plays with his legs.  He just doesn't have a lot of volume.  If he did, we never would have been able to get him at 10.

I keep wondering how the draft would've gone if JJ had played in a passing offense at Washington or LSU. I think he might've been seen as a Joe Burrow type and more of a consideration for #1 overall. 

The fact that Washington "seriously considered" JJ at #2 suggests that NFL teams had this in mind as well.

StickierBuns wrote:

Regardless of the rumors, the fact is he was the 5th QB selected. He's got weaknesses. I'm as high on the kid as anyone, but he needs some seasoning. My concern is Viking Nation starts the 'JJ McCarthy' chant at the stadium in Week 3.....KOC is going to have to stay firm and resolved if Darnold sucks ass early.

Oh don't get me wrong. I'm as worried about our QBOTF as anyone. The painful truth is that at least two of these six will be busts. I just hope it's not our guy. 

And the best way to prevent that is to give him all the time he needs. I'm the campaign manager of the "Sit JJ for a Year" movement. Outside of preseason games, I don't want to see him on the field at all until 2025.

Havoc wrote:
I actually disagree on JJM being the least polished of this group. He had the least experience, but as far as reading defenses and making smart decisions, I’d say he’s well ahead of some of the other guys. I think he’s more polished than people realize and definitely more polished than any 20 year old just turned 21 that I’ve seen.

Caleb Williams will start day one and he has a ways to go on reading defenses/coverages. Most high school QB’s are better at protecting the ball. The guy had over 30 fumbles if I remember right. JJ is light years ahead of him at stuff like this. Caleb can probably get by in his enormous talent, but he has a long way to go in several areas that are pretty important.

JJ has far superior mechanics and footwork as well as decision making compared to Drake Maye and I expect Drake will stand a fair chance of starting for the Pats.

I think it’s more likely that KOC’s offensive system is the bigger hurdle and not so much JJ’s development as a QB. It’s going to be super interesting to see how it goes throughout the summer.

Agree that JJM is more advanced in terms of being able to make reads and play in a NFL style offense.  In regards to Williams, he is at another level than any other QB in this draft, I watched every snap of his two years, the turnover stats are misleading, they had one of the worst defenses and were always playing from behind, he often had to score every time they had the ball, so he had to force the play sometimes and take a lot of risks which led to the turnovers, also consider the fact they had no offensive line and he was usually running for his life as soon as he took a snap.  He will be a star day one.

StickierBuns wrote:

Regardless of the rumors, the fact is he was the 5th QB selected. He's got weaknesses. I'm as high on the kid as anyone, but he needs some seasoning. My concern is Viking Nation starts the 'JJ McCarthy' chant at the stadium in Week 3.....KOC is going to have to stay firm and resolved if Darnold sucks ass early.

It'll be "JJ!" 

Not "JJ McCarthy!"

Problem is there's 2 JJ's

Fans dont refer to Jefferson as "Jetta" or "Jets" often

StickierBuns wrote:

Regardless of the rumors, the fact is he was the 5th QB selected. He's got weaknesses. I'm as high on the kid as anyone, but he needs some seasoning. My concern is Viking Nation starts the 'JJ McCarthy' chant at the stadium in Week 3.....KOC is going to have to stay firm and resolved if Darnold sucks ass early.

What if JJM is clearly the better QB in training camp and preseason? I don't know if that will be the case right away, but what if he learns the offense better and plays better and has more command? How do you not start him? And shouldn't you start him if that's the case?

PurplePastor wrote:

What if JJM is clearly the better QB in training camp and preseason? I don't know if that will be the case right away, but what if he learns the offense better and plays better and has more command? How do you not start him? And shouldn't you start him if that's the case?

I wont answer for @Sticky...My own opinion is that Darnold starts the regular regardless of TC, OTA, Pre-Season performance from the 21 year old. 

Viking Nation needs to pray Darnold stays healthy. 

How KOC handles his reps in August will be interesting to see. He will need reps being new to the system and all - KOC will need to strike a fine balance in how much he actually plays in the pre-season. It'll be more than KC would.

Havoc wrote:
I actually disagree on JJM being the least polished of this group. He had the least experience, but as far as reading defenses and making smart decisions, I’d say he’s well ahead of some of the other guys. I think he’s more polished than people realize and definitely more polished than any 20 year old just turned 21 that I’ve seen.

Caleb Williams will start day one and he has a ways to go on reading defenses/coverages. Most high school QB’s are better at protecting the ball. The guy had over 30 fumbles if I remember right. JJ is light years ahead of him at stuff like this. Caleb can probably get by in his enormous talent, but he has a long way to go in several areas that are pretty important.

JJ has far superior mechanics and footwork as well as decision making compared to Drake Maye and I expect Drake will stand a fair chance of starting for the Pats.

I think it’s more likely that KOC’s offensive system is the bigger hurdle and not so much JJ’s development as a QB. It’s going to be super interesting to see how it goes throughout the summer.

JR44 wrote:

Agree that JJM is more advanced in terms of being able to make reads and play in a NFL style offense.  In regards to Williams, he is at another level than any other QB in this draft, I watched every snap of his two years, the turnover stats are misleading, they had one of the worst defenses and were always playing from behind, he often had to score every time they had the ball, so he had to force the play sometimes and take a lot of risks which led to the turnovers, also consider the fact they had no offensive line and he was usually running for his life as soon as he took a snap.  He will be a star day one.

I too watched all of Williams games this year and protecting the ball was very rare for him. He routinely carries it one handed and away from his body. He’s a NFL defenders dream. It doesn’t matter what level of football you are at, the way he completely ignores protecting the ball is a really bad habit that he needs to work hard to eliminate. He also has the bad habit of moving himself into pressure and bails out of the pocket with no pressure. That may be partially due to being down and wanting to wait for a big play, but it also does not translate to the NFL. These are big things he must do better. He gets away with it because his talent is incredible, but it will take more than that at the next level. 

Let’s put it this way: if he threw 30 picks instead of fumbles in the past two years would it be a big deal? 

His line was bad so there is a good caveat there. However, he will be under plenty of pressure in the NFL where players are much faster in recognition and more athletic. I’m not saying he’s a bad player by any stretch. I’m just pointing out he’s a significant work in progress.

purplefaithful wrote:

I wont answer for @Sticky...My own opinion is that Darnold starts the regular regardless of TC, OTA, Pre-Season performance from the 21 year old. 

Viking Nation needs to pray Darnold stays healthy. 

How KOC handles his reps in August will be interesting to see. He will need reps being new to the system and all - KOC will need to strike a fine balance in how much he actually plays in the pre-season. It'll be more than KC would.

Yeah, I hope Darnold starts at LEAST the first half of the season.  Would love to give JJM the Mahomes treatment and have him sit his rookie year with a token start in the final week when we have a playoff spot locked up.

One thing working in JJM's favor though is Michigan used some of the same passing concepts as KOC.  He'll have a leg up learning the playbook and he seems like a bright, hard working kid.

Be nice to let him learn and be fully ready to hit the ground running in 2025 with an even more built up team around him.