Draft: If it's not a QB..?

@"StickyBun" said:

@"kmillard" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: WR is the last position we should target in the first, unless at were to move JJ.  Even then I would question its need.  Teams are finding solid WR talent in day 2 and even 3, its getting easier and easier to find quality at the position, much like RB.

If not QB we need to target a new GM, and then grab IDL or IOL,  most likely in a trade down,   but it really needs to be a bold move for a QB of their liking if the stakes aren't stupid.

I have a feeling that it will be a 3 year deal for Cousins all guaranteed of course. I agree that it would be a good time to trade up and get a top prospect, but why waste it in this scenario and in two years when the house gets cleaned hopefully the Wilfs learn and hire a real president of football operations and build the team with a Young QB.

So I'm trying to get this straight: The current HC/GM won 13 games their first season. They lost their starting QB in Season 2, along with a lot of other injuries, and still fought almost to the end to make the playoffs. Yet the 'house will get cleaned' in 2 years?? I guess it's an opinion, but where is the logic to it? It just sounds like ridiculous fan babble to me. 

@"kmillard" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"kmillard" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: WR is the last position we should target in the first, unless at were to move JJ.  Even then I would question its need.  Teams are finding solid WR talent in day 2 and even 3, its getting easier and easier to find quality at the position, much like RB.

If not QB we need to target a new GM, and then grab IDL or IOL,  most likely in a trade down,   but it really needs to be a bold move for a QB of their liking if the stakes aren't stupid.

I have a feeling that it will be a 3 year deal for Cousins all guaranteed of course. I agree that it would be a good time to trade up and get a top prospect, but why waste it in this scenario and in two years when the house gets cleaned hopefully the Wilfs learn and hire a real president of football operations and build the team with a Young QB.

So I'm trying to get this straight: The current HC/GM won 13 games their first season. They lost their starting QB in Season 2, along with a lot of other injuries, and still fought almost to the end to make the playoffs. Yet the 'house will get cleaned' in 2 years?? I guess it's an opinion, but where is the logic to it? It just sounds like ridiculous fan babble to me. 

Just a projection, based on using the past to predict the future. I bet the next two years are going to be disappointed for the purple faithful. Running it back and rearranging the deck chairs aren't going to produce a championship caliber team.

@"StickyBun" said:

@"kmillard" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"kmillard" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: WR is the last position we should target in the first, unless at were to move JJ.  Even then I would question its need.  Teams are finding solid WR talent in day 2 and even 3, its getting easier and easier to find quality at the position, much like RB.

If not QB we need to target a new GM, and then grab IDL or IOL,  most likely in a trade down,   but it really needs to be a bold move for a QB of their liking if the stakes aren't stupid.

I have a feeling that it will be a 3 year deal for Cousins all guaranteed of course. I agree that it would be a good time to trade up and get a top prospect, but why waste it in this scenario and in two years when the house gets cleaned hopefully the Wilfs learn and hire a real president of football operations and build the team with a Young QB.

So I'm trying to get this straight: The current HC/GM won 13 games their first season. They lost their starting QB in Season 2, along with a lot of other injuries, and still fought almost to the end to make the playoffs. Yet the 'house will get cleaned' in 2 years?? I guess it's an opinion, but where is the logic to it? It just sounds like ridiculous fan babble to me. 

Just a projection, based on using the past to predict the future. I bet the next two years are going to be disappointed for the purple faithful. Running it back and rearranging the deck chairs aren't going to produce a championship caliber team.

But you aren't doing that. I just laid out the past 2 years. How would anyone make your projection based off of that? 

@"mgobluevikes" said: If it's edge I'd look at Jared Verse or Chop Robinson. I'm kind of disappointed in the DT crop as far as what we need (a true NT). Some like Newton out of IL as a 3 Tech., but he seems a bit short and slow.

WR is probably too high considering we already have JJ and Addison as a #2. 

There's still hope for Roy too, considering he was an upside pick, having started only one season at LSU, so I'm not overly concerned he didn't have much impact as a rookie.

Anyway, Johnny Newton can really get after the QB, and he's a pretty good run stopper as well. You can get 2-down NT's later in the draft. Right now, the consensus best NT, T'vondre Sweat, who goes 6-4, 362, is holding pretty consistently around the 40-60 range and the Vikings own the 42nd pick. 

Obviously, QB is the choice if we can get one KOC and KAM like. Otherwise, as much as I love WRs (Malik Nabors or Odunze with JJ, Addison, and TJ - even Mullens couldn't screw that up), I would go with Edge. Verse, Turner, or Latu. Latu is the best pass rusher today but he is third on my list of 3. I watched UCLA quite a lot. He can get to the QB but he cannot bull rush and gets moved vs the run.  I also like Newton at DT. I can see CB but FFS, please no. I don't like any of these CBs like I did the top CBs in the last 2 drafts. No CBs in the first this year.

If we cannot get Daniels, either sit at 11 and take an Edge, or trade back and see if Penix of JJ are available in the mid-20s. I'm not too sold on Nix. Average arm. He rarely reads more than one receiver. He should be further along considering his age. McCarthy is so young. He is a bit of an unknown because of the offense at Michigan - although it was more pro style than UW or Oregon. But he is a better athlete than Penix or Nix, has a better arm than Nix, and can actually read more than one receiver.

Don't burn me at the stake but consider this: Rattler in the third or fourth round. He has matured and is seen as a real leader. Played on an awful South Carolina team with No O-line. He ran for his life every game and never complained. He has talent; his arm is elite. He is a so-so athlete with good mobility in the pocket. But he is not a big guy. He is a bit of a long shot but long shots sometimes pan out. 

Mark this down;If no QB and we miss the playoffs then say goodbye to KAM and KOC.

@"dadevike" said: Obviously, QB is the choice if we can get one KOC and KAM like. Otherwise, as much as I love WRs (Malik Nabors or Odunze with JJ, Addison, and TJ - even Mullens couldn't screw that up), I would go with Edge. Verse, Turner, or Latu. Latu is the best pass rusher today but he is third on my list of 3. I watched UCLA quite a lot. He can get to the QB but he cannot bull rush and gets moved vs the run.  I also like Newton at DT. I can see CB but FFS, please no. I don't like any of these CBs like I did the top CBs in the last 2 drafts. No CBs in the first this year.

If we cannot get Daniels, either sit at 11 and take an Edge, or trade back and see if Penix of JJ are available in the mid-20s. I'm not too sold on Nix. Average arm. He rarely reads more than one receiver. He should be further along considering his age. McCarthy is so young. He is a bit of an unknown because of the offense at Michigan - although it was more pro style than UW or Oregon. But he is a better athlete than Penix or Nix, has a better arm than Nix, and can actually read more than one receiver.

Don't burn me at the stake but consider this: Rattler in the third or fourth round. He has matured and is seen as a real leader. Played on an awful South Carolina team with No O-line. He ran for his life every game and never complained. He has talent; his arm is elite. He is a so-so athlete with good mobility in the pocket. But he is not a big guy. He is a bit of a long shot but long shots sometimes pan out. 

Interesting take on Rattler. I haven't watched him yet (outside of Saturdays), but now I'm intrigued. 

Let's put ourselves in KAMs shoes. Do we really want to sign Cousins and risk missing the playoffs? Do we really want to take a risk on a 2nd or 3rd round QB? This will be year 3, what are we building? What are we showing to the ownership?Really there is only one option; sign Jefferson, pick a first round QB, go oline in 2nd round and perhaps 3rd round as well, be active in FA, and roll with it.

@"FLVike" said:

Let's put ourselves in KAMs shoes. Do we really want to sign Cousins and risk missing the playoffs? Do we really want to take a risk on a 2nd or 3rd round QB? This will be year 3, what are we building? What are we showing to the ownership?Really there is only one option; sign Jefferson, pick a first round QB, go oline in 2nd round and perhaps 3rd round as well, be active in FA, and roll with it.

IMO (as of now), best case scenario for the Vikings in this draft is McCarthy dropping to our pick at #11 and sitting him behind Cousins for a year or two. Anything after that is gravy. 

@"supafreak84" said: IMO (as of now), best case scenario for the Vikings in this draft is McCarthy dropping to our pick at #11 and sitting him behind Cousins for a year or two. Anything after that is gravy. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"supafreak84" said: IMO (as of now), best case scenario for the Vikings in this draft is McCarthy dropping to our pick at #11 and sitting him behind Cousins for a year or two. Anything after that is gravy. 

I think McCarthy is viewed as Tier 2, he could be there toward the end of round 1 possibly. I like your scenario, the only thing better (but very risky) is take the top DE/Edge guy at #11 and then move up to end of round 1 for McCarthy. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said: If it's edge I'd look at Jared Verse or Chop Robinson. I'm kind of disappointed in the DT crop as far as what we need (a true NT). Some like Newton out of IL as a 3 Tech., but he seems a bit short and slow.

WR is probably too high considering we already have JJ and Addison as a #2. 

Do we need a true NT? I'll grant you most 3-4 defenses have a big plugger in the middle, but the Vikings finished tied for 5th against the run. And in his first draft with the Vikings, Flores didn't draft one, selecting instead Jaquelin Roy who was more of a pass rusher. Plus, I think the team is much higher on our current nose, Harrison Phillips, than the fans are. 

There's still hope for Roy too, considering he was an upside pick, having started only one season at LSU, so I'm not overly concerned he didn't have much impact as a rookie.

Anyway, Johnny Newton can really get after the QB, and he's a pretty good run stopper as well. You can get 2-down NT's later in the draft. Right now, the consensus best NT, T'vondre Sweat, who goes 6-4, 362, is holding pretty consistently around the 40-60 range and the Vikings own the 42nd pick. 

@"pattersaur" said:

@"FLVike" said:

Let's put ourselves in KAMs shoes. Do we really want to sign Cousins and risk missing the playoffs? Do we really want to take a risk on a 2nd or 3rd round QB? This will be year 3, what are we building? What are we showing to the ownership?Really there is only one option; sign Jefferson, pick a first round QB, go oline in 2nd round and perhaps 3rd round as well, be active in FA, and roll with it.

If they did with Mccarthy or the top 3 and Minshew I’d actually be really down for that. Especially if Atlanta or Pittsburgh gives Kirk $45M/yr for 3 yrs. I’m just not super confident that even with Kirk, we are as good as GB or DET next year. So now you’re targeting a run when Kirk is 37 and 38. If that’s the path then I’ll get behind it, but I’m having reservations that it’s the best road. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"supafreak84" said: IMO (as of now), best case scenario for the Vikings in this draft is McCarthy dropping to our pick at #11 and sitting him behind Cousins for a year or two. Anything after that is gravy. 

I think McCarthy is viewed as Tier 2, he could be there toward the end of round 1 possibly. I like your scenario, the only thing better (but very risky) is take the top DE/Edge guy at #11 and then move up to end of round 1 for McCarthy. 

If McCarthy is their guy... take him at 11 and be happy,  

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"supafreak84" said: IMO (as of now), best case scenario for the Vikings in this draft is McCarthy dropping to our pick at #11 and sitting him behind Cousins for a year or two. Anything after that is gravy. 

I think McCarthy is viewed as Tier 2, he could be there toward the end of round 1 possibly. I like your scenario, the only thing better (but very risky) is take the top DE/Edge guy at #11 and then move up to end of round 1 for McCarthy. 

If McCarthy is their guy... take him at 11 and be happy,  

Yep, I'm not advocating passing on a QB that is Minnesota's guy. I was just offering a better best-case scenario. Getting a top D player AND their QB? Gold. But as I mentioned, super risky and it could blow up. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said: If it's edge I'd look at Jared Verse or Chop Robinson. I'm kind of disappointed in the DT crop as far as what we need (a true NT). Some like Newton out of IL as a 3 Tech., but he seems a bit short and slow.

WR is probably too high considering we already have JJ and Addison as a #2. 

Do we need a true NT? I'll grant you most 3-4 defenses have a big plugger in the middle, but the Vikings finished tied for 5th against the run. And in his first draft with the Vikings, Flores didn't draft one, selecting instead Jaquelin Roy who was more of a pass rusher. Plus, I think the team is much higher on our current nose, Harrison Phillips, than the fans are. 

There's still hope for Roy too, considering he was an upside pick, having started only one season at LSU, so I'm not overly concerned he didn't have much impact as a rookie.

Anyway, Johnny Newton can really get after the QB, and he's a pretty good run stopper as well. You can get 2-down NT's later in the draft. Right now, the consensus best NT, T'vondre Sweat, who goes 6-4, 362, is holding pretty consistently around the 40-60 range and the Vikings own the 42nd pick. 

speaking of NTs... did anybody else see what Vita Vea did to Kelsy on monday night?  I only watched a little of the game,  but damn did he have JK on roller skates,  it was like watching Bradbury in an eagles uniform.  Its no wonder after a game like that Kelsy is talking retirement.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said: If it's edge I'd look at Jared Verse or Chop Robinson. I'm kind of disappointed in the DT crop as far as what we need (a true NT). Some like Newton out of IL as a 3 Tech., but he seems a bit short and slow.

WR is probably too high considering we already have JJ and Addison as a #2. 

Do we need a true NT? I'll grant you most 3-4 defenses have a big plugger in the middle, but the Vikings finished tied for 5th against the run. And in his first draft with the Vikings, Flores didn't draft one, selecting instead Jaquelin Roy who was more of a pass rusher. Plus, I think the team is much higher on our current nose, Harrison Phillips, than the fans are. 

There's still hope for Roy too, considering he was an upside pick, having started only one season at LSU, so I'm not overly concerned he didn't have much impact as a rookie.

Anyway, Johnny Newton can really get after the QB, and he's a pretty good run stopper as well. You can get 2-down NT's later in the draft. Right now, the consensus best NT, T'vondre Sweat, who goes 6-4, 362, is holding pretty consistently around the 40-60 range and the Vikings own the 42nd pick. 

speaking of NTs... did anybody else see what Vita Vea did to Kelsy on monday night?  I only watched a little of the game,  but damn did he have JK on roller skates,  it was like watching Bradbury in an eagles uniform.  Its no wonder after a game like that Kelsy is talking retirement.

Kelce is 36 years old. All centers struggle with Vea. Still, I'd bet Kelce has won his fair share of those matchups over the years. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said: If it's edge I'd look at Jared Verse or Chop Robinson. I'm kind of disappointed in the DT crop as far as what we need (a true NT). Some like Newton out of IL as a 3 Tech., but he seems a bit short and slow.

WR is probably too high considering we already have JJ and Addison as a #2. 

Do we need a true NT? I'll grant you most 3-4 defenses have a big plugger in the middle, but the Vikings finished tied for 5th against the run. And in his first draft with the Vikings, Flores didn't draft one, selecting instead Jaquelin Roy who was more of a pass rusher. Plus, I think the team is much higher on our current nose, Harrison Phillips, than the fans are. 

There's still hope for Roy too, considering he was an upside pick, having started only one season at LSU, so I'm not overly concerned he didn't have much impact as a rookie.

Anyway, Johnny Newton can really get after the QB, and he's a pretty good run stopper as well. You can get 2-down NT's later in the draft. Right now, the consensus best NT, T'vondre Sweat, who goes 6-4, 362, is holding pretty consistently around the 40-60 range and the Vikings own the 42nd pick. 

speaking of NTs... did anybody else see what Vita Vea did to Kelsy on monday night?  I only watched a little of the game,  but damn did he have JK on roller skates,  it was like watching Bradbury in an eagles uniform.  Its no wonder after a game like that Kelsy is talking retirement.

Kelce is 36 years old. All centers struggle with Vea. Still, I'd bet Kelce has won his fair share of those matchups over the years. 

Kelce has been rumored to be retiring for the several years,  he has a date with Canton,  and yes he has shown that undersized OL can play in the game,  just wish we could have found one.

“If we cannot get Daniels, either sit at 11 and take an Edge, or trade back and see if Penix of JJ are available in the mid-20s. I'm not too sold on Nix. Average arm. He rarely reads more than one receiver. He should be further along considering his age. McCarthy is so young. He is a bit of an unknown because of the offense at Michigan - although it was more pro style than UW or Oregon. But he is a better athlete than Penix or Nix, has a better arm than Nix, and can actually read more than one receiver.”

Bo Nix runs the Oregon offense and has for the past two years. What looks like a one read play never is. Nix is probably the most mislabeled/misunderstood QB in this draft, and it’s because most of the “experts” don’t actually know what they are looking at.

I’ve spent the past few days dissecting the Ducks offense and what exactly Nix is doing. The reason why? Because a one read offense/QB is easy to defend against and Bo Nix is clearly not that. So what is actually happening? 
Through interviews coaches have given and what I see on tape, Nix has full autonomy over their offense and has since day 1. What do I mean by autonomy? Basically he receives the formation that usually dictates run or pass and the routes. All the rest is on him. 
So to map out an example: he’ll have a pass signal and the play formation. Any one of those players could be his “one read”. As he approaches the line and sees the defense, he gets an idea of what they are planning. There’s no way to know for sure every time, but he has a very good idea based on experience and film study. As for the rest of his players, they simply run their routes as designed unless he makes a change. 
Once Nix gets an idea of what the defense is going to do, he may choose the guy he’s going to (“his one read”) or at least narrow his choices down to three total options based on what happens after the snap. At the snap, he’ll watch whichever defender he needs to see react, to know where to go. If the defender breaks on one guy, he goes to the other. Bang Bang. If both guys are not open, his final decision is the “check down” if it’s open. However, the “check down” is not the same as what many of us are used to. The check down could be the traditional RB out of the backfield, or it could be a myriad of other options running short slants etc. One of these guys can also become his “one read” after seeing the defense. If he knows he’ll have a guy running a slant in the middle and knows there will be a hole in the zone there, he’ll hit it immediately. 
Once he makes all these pre-snap decisions/ the actual read is fast. Timing the guy, the ball is often out under 2 seconds - on time and with perfect ball placement for YAC. YAC is a byproduct of timing and ball placement and he does this freakishly well. 
So you see, he isn’t a “one read” QB. The offense is actually complex and asks him to read all of it pre-snap. That’s also why it’s so difficult to defend against. Nix identifies the weakness in your coverage (every defensive formation/play has weaknesses) and carves you up. 
I’m still working and will be for awhile, but Bo Nix may be further along than any college QB I’ve ever reviewed. His stats exemplify his command of the offense and his knowledge of what defenses are trying to do to him. This is also why he takes so few sacks as well. He’s always one step ahead.  

Hopefully this makes some sense. I’m not the best at describing it, but it’s not the offense it appears to be on the surface.