What has happened to the Viking's O-line?
Man, what a difference this season. And this was before Risner got in with the Cleveland injury and he's played well. The D is improved also, but very impressive play from the O-line so far this year compared to last year certainly.
We are 22nd in YPC at 3.91. Our opponents 3.59.
Our run game doesn’t suck, we just dont run that much.
@"supafreak84" said:Isn't part of being GM bringing in the coaches to put players in position to play up to their strengths? During the four years of the Cousins era that Rick was GM there were 4 different offensive coordinators and 3 different o-line coaches. Drafting a guy only goes so far if they aren't being put in a position to play up to their ability and the system/expectations are constantly changing.@"TBro" said:@"MaroonBells" said: Zero sacks. 49ers had their lowest pass rush win rate since 2017. Bosa was 1/40 against Darrisaw.It's continuity. Continuity is good. Bradbury has improved each season. Ingram improved steadily over the course of last season. And he's doing it again this season, but from a higher starting point. He's now easily a top half guard. The tackles are simply the best bookends in football. Keep 'em together. I think the line we saw last night is the starting line next year.
But thank you for mentioning that the line had improved before Risner. The TWIT-o-sphere is full of folks saying Risner made all the difference. LOL. But that wasn't nearly as mind-numbingly stupid as this....
Agreed. Spielman drafted every one of these guys except Ingram. And Risner is only getting playing time because Cleveland is injured. I will definitely give them credit for improving the Pass Protection, but our Run game has been terrible all year. Now some of that is on Mattison who is not a Starting NFL RB but this is a ridiculous take.
Yeah that tweet is hilarious when Spielman drafted every one of those those players except Ingram, who has been up and down. What an idiot
@"Greylock" said: Spielman may have drafted them but don't discount that new offensive line coaches were brought in by the new front office. But then some may not think coaching has anything to do with a players improvement.Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't. I personally think players either have the talent to play and excel in the league or they don't, and how they look from week to week has much more to do with scheme and individual match ups than being coached up. I never thought personnel was the huge issue under Spielman.
@"Bullazin" said: We are 22nd in YPC at 3.91. Our opponents 3.59.Our run game doesn’t suck, we just dont run that much.
3.91 x 3 = first down
@"bigbone62" said:@"supafreak84" said:Isn't part of being GM bringing in the coaches to put players in position to play up to their strengths? During the four years of the Cousins era that Rick was GM there were 4 different offensive coordinators and 3 different o-line coaches. Drafting a guy only goes so far if they aren't being put in a position to play up to their ability and the system/expectations are constantly changing.@"TBro" said:@"MaroonBells" said: Zero sacks. 49ers had their lowest pass rush win rate since 2017. Bosa was 1/40 against Darrisaw.It's continuity. Continuity is good. Bradbury has improved each season. Ingram improved steadily over the course of last season. And he's doing it again this season, but from a higher starting point. He's now easily a top half guard. The tackles are simply the best bookends in football. Keep 'em together. I think the line we saw last night is the starting line next year.
But thank you for mentioning that the line had improved before Risner. The TWIT-o-sphere is full of folks saying Risner made all the difference. LOL. But that wasn't nearly as mind-numbingly stupid as this....
Agreed. Spielman drafted every one of these guys except Ingram. And Risner is only getting playing time because Cleveland is injured. I will definitely give them credit for improving the Pass Protection, but our Run game has been terrible all year. Now some of that is on Mattison who is not a Starting NFL RB but this is a ridiculous take.
Yeah that tweet is hilarious when Spielman drafted every one of those those players except Ingram, who has been up and down. What an idiot
Yes but as you pointed out, it's hard replacing coaches and coordinators on a yearly basis as the Vikings had to do under Zimmer. That is hard to do from a quality and continuity standpoint
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"Bullazin" said: We are 22nd in YPC at 3.91. Our opponents 3.59.Our run game doesn’t suck, we just dont run that much.
3.91 x 3 = first down
I would like us to be more balanced and let our fatties go forward alot more. KOC is gonna KOC i guess, and if Kirk is hot their is no need in his mind.Maybe we just dont have the personnel inside to move people but I would like us to try some power once in a while instead of zone zone zone.
And as far as personnel is concerned, we have picks 1, 2, 1, 2, 2 across the front. They should be damn good relative to their draft position’s
How could you not root for this kid? Good on ya, dude. Go get it.
Powerful emotion from #Vikings left guard Dalton Risner late last night: pic.twitter.com/KG26YsVyee
— Darren Wolfson (@DWolfsonKSTP) October 24, 2023
@"medaille" said: I’d be curious to see someone who grades OLines explain what’s going on. The first few games were just bad. Cousins was the most hit QB in the league. Running game horrible. Last couple games, very solid pass protection. I think our run blocking has been trending upwards, but nowhere near good. Does everything just feel weird because we’re passing on 2/3’s of the plays?
QB hits aren't just on the OL. The QB shares some of that blame, if he holds the ball too long. And God knows Cousins has no problem standing in the pocket long enough to give his receivers time to get open.
I think a more informative metric is pocket time and QB hurries, and the Vikings ranked decent in both categories before the 49ers game.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"medaille" said: I’d be curious to see someone who grades OLines explain what’s going on. The first few games were just bad. Cousins was the most hit QB in the league. Running game horrible. Last couple games, very solid pass protection. I think our run blocking has been trending upwards, but nowhere near good. Does everything just feel weird because we’re passing on 2/3’s of the plays?
QB hits aren't just on the OL. The QB shares some of that blame, if he holds the ball too long. And God knows Cousins has no problem standing in the pocket long enough to give his receivers time to get open.I think a more informative metric is pocket time and QB hurries, and the Vikings ranked decent in both categories before the 49ers game.
I think our struggles early in the year were a combination
of things. There was way too many
completely unblocked rushers. I’m not
sure who’s fault they were, but they were there. I think the playcalling was bad in the sense
that all the plays were long developing plays, and we didn’t really have many successful
counters to pressure. I also think
Cousins wasn’t really understanding the offense and how it relates to the
defense and would hold on to the ball too long. I also think that our complete inability/lack of desire to run, really let defenses pin their ears back.That said, I’ve never seen anyone do a deep dive on our issues
where they quantified the different problems. The OLine certainly wasn't providing the level of protection that Cousins was getting recently.
@"medaille" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"medaille" said: I’d be curious to see someone who grades OLines explain what’s going on. The first few games were just bad. Cousins was the most hit QB in the league. Running game horrible. Last couple games, very solid pass protection. I think our run blocking has been trending upwards, but nowhere near good. Does everything just feel weird because we’re passing on 2/3’s of the plays?
QB hits aren't just on the OL. The QB shares some of that blame, if he holds the ball too long. And God knows Cousins has no problem standing in the pocket long enough to give his receivers time to get open.I think a more informative metric is pocket time and QB hurries, and the Vikings ranked decent in both categories before the 49ers game.
I think our struggles early in the year were a combination
of things. There was way too many
completely unblocked rushers. I’m not
sure who’s fault they were, but they were there. I think the playcalling was bad in the sense
that all the plays were long developing plays, and we didn’t really have many successful
counters to pressure. I also think
Cousins wasn’t really understanding the offense and how it relates to the
defense and would hold on to the ball too long. I also think that our complete inability/lack of desire to run, really let defenses pin their ears back.That said, I’ve never seen anyone do a deep dive on our issues
where they quantified the different problems. The OLine certainly wasn't providing the level of protection that Cousins was getting recently.
Earlier this year, the Vikings biggest problem was picking up the blitz. That can be on the QB, the center, any of the linemen, the TE or even a RB. And I think the responsibility for that is different on every play, so it's super hard for a fan to know.
@"StickyBun" said: https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1716801672993759246That last one is interesting. Love this view of Kirk coming out of a pile of bodies to make the 3rd down completion. As Baldy sez, how does he stay on his feet?
Well IMO it is the O-line. Risner and O'Neill kinda get beat, but they don't just give up and resign to help their QB up. They put one last shove on their guy even as their feet are tangling, bumping into Kirk and that gives him enough time to make an off-platform throw.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"medaille" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"medaille" said: I’d be curious to see someone who grades OLines explain what’s going on. The first few games were just bad. Cousins was the most hit QB in the league. Running game horrible. Last couple games, very solid pass protection. I think our run blocking has been trending upwards, but nowhere near good. Does everything just feel weird because we’re passing on 2/3’s of the plays?
QB hits aren't just on the OL. The QB shares some of that blame, if he holds the ball too long. And God knows Cousins has no problem standing in the pocket long enough to give his receivers time to get open.I think a more informative metric is pocket time and QB hurries, and the Vikings ranked decent in both categories before the 49ers game.
I think our struggles early in the year were a combination
of things. There was way too many
completely unblocked rushers. I’m not
sure who’s fault they were, but they were there. I think the playcalling was bad in the sense
that all the plays were long developing plays, and we didn’t really have many successful
counters to pressure. I also think
Cousins wasn’t really understanding the offense and how it relates to the
defense and would hold on to the ball too long. I also think that our complete inability/lack of desire to run, really let defenses pin their ears back.That said, I’ve never seen anyone do a deep dive on our issues
where they quantified the different problems. The OLine certainly wasn't providing the level of protection that Cousins was getting recently.
Earlier this year, the Vikings biggest problem was picking up the blitz. That can be on the QB, the center, any of the linemen, the TE or even a RB. And I think the responsibility for that is different on every play, so it's super hard for a fan to know.
One more thing. Don't forget Bradbury is playing now. And calling out blitzes and blocking schemes and double teams is one of the center's biggest responsibilities. Not sure if PFF recognizes that in their grades or not, but in the 49er game you could hear Bradbury clear as day calling out numbers. Not sure that I heard that much from Schlottmann, and even if he did, who knows if he was right. Just that could make a big difference.
This is what continuity actually looks like.
Vikings Oline stoned the DPOY.
And the "how lethal can Cousins be in a clean pocket be ", debate got answered, rather neatly.
No AD or Cook since 2007
No Thielen/Diggs. Since 2014.
And now no JJ, for the first time since he arrived in 2020.
Point being, Cousins is shredding defensive coverages he's never seen before as a Viking.
I would rather improve over the season and peak at the end with a winning record (going into the playoffs) vs. winning a lot early and collapsing at the end of seasons due to overconfidence, mental lapses or worse...injuries. Yes, I think this OL has jelled and I think that the BFlo defense has finally shown up, albeit almost halfway through the season.
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