Ed F#$%ing Ingram

@"StickyBun" said: https://twitter.com/vikesinsider/status/1701280875596468453

Ezra Cleveland: 84.8
Brian O'Neill: 81.5
Christian Darrisaw: 73.9
Austin Schlottmann: 66.9
Ed Ingram: 40.3

Risner's strength is pass blocking and his phone should have been ringing around halftime yesterday.  Kirk is going to get killed until Kwesi/KOC recognize that Ed needs to sit.  I am not saying give up on him or cut him but he is clearly not starting material now and you are risking your 35 million dollar QB and about to be highest paid WR who isn't going to want to sign if Hall is throwing him the ball.  

At this point Ingram does not look like a starting caliber guard, not to say he wont develop into one but at this point is Risner really the answer?  If he is why hasn't he been signed?  Money, scheme fit, attitude I mean his former offensive line coaches from the Broncos are now employed by the Vikings yet he visited and left without a contract.  Maybe that should be a warning sign he is not worth what he may be asking for.  Oh and if he does sign and has a crappy game the Kwesi haters will be on here full force saying what a shitty signing he was.

@"Greylock" said: At this point Ingram does not look like a starting caliber guard, not to say he wont develop into one but at this point is Risner really the answer?  If he is why hasn't he been signed?  Money, scheme fit, attitude I mean his former offensive line coaches from the Broncos are now employed by the Vikings yet he visited and left without a contract.  Maybe that should be a warning sign he is not worth what he may be asking for.  Oh and if he does sign and has a crappy game the Kwesi haters will be on here full force saying what a shitty signing he was.

@"Greylock" said: At this point Ingram does not look like a starting caliber guard, not to say he wont develop into one but at this point is Risner really the answer?  If he is why hasn't he been signed?  Money, scheme fit, attitude I mean his former offensive line coaches from the Broncos are now employed by the Vikings yet he visited and left without a contract.  Maybe that should be a warning sign he is not worth what he may be asking for.  Oh and if he does sign and has a crappy game the Kwesi haters will be on here full force saying what a shitty signing he was.

Maybe we should move him to the DL, after all he did have that nice strip sack yesterday =)

@"minny65" said:

@"Greylock" said: At this point Ingram does not look like a starting caliber guard, not to say he wont develop into one but at this point is Risner really the answer?  If he is why hasn't he been signed?  Money, scheme fit, attitude I mean his former offensive line coaches from the Broncos are now employed by the Vikings yet he visited and left without a contract.  Maybe that should be a warning sign he is not worth what he may be asking for.  Oh and if he does sign and has a crappy game the Kwesi haters will be on here full force saying what a shitty signing he was.

A crappy game based on Ingram's crappy string of games or a crappy game based on an average starting Guard?  So you prefer to just sit and watch crappiness and not address a glaring weakness because another guy might also have a crappy game or two?  Risner's worst PFF grades are better than Ingrams best especially as a pass blocker which is where our interior is getting Kirk crushed and eventually hurt.  

Based on last year’s performance, what we saw in the 1st preseason game, and this Bucs game, Ingram needs to be benched.

He caused a fumble in the Bucs game, he stepped on Cousins foot 3-4 times last year causing sacks and impacting drives.  
If any other player on the team had his poor performance over an extended period of time, they would probably not be starting.

I have no idea what the coaching staff is seeing.   I don’t care if it’s Chris Reed, Blake Brandel, or Dalton Risner, if we care about improving our interior OL and protecting Kirk, we have to TRY someone else at this position.  
If we are going to be a pass first offense, then we need to find a pass blocking RG. 
What do we really have to lose?  How much worse can it get?

@"Magnus10" said: Based on last year’s performance, what we saw in the 1st preseason game, and this Bucs game, Ingram needs to be benched.

He caused a fumble in the Bucs game, he stepped on Cousins foot 3-4 times last year causing sacks and impacting drives.  

If any other player on the team had his poor performance over an extended period of time, they would probably not be starting.

I have no idea what the coaching staff is seeing.   I don’t care if it’s Chris Reed, Blake Brandel, or Dalton Risner, if we care about improving our interior OL and protecting Kirk, we have to TRY someone else at this position.  
If we are going to be a pass first offense, then we need to find a pass blocking RG. 
What do we really have to lose?  How much worse can it get?

Risner isn't going to make any difference of significance. He's on the outside looking in for a reason. 

@"StickyBun" said: Risner isn't going to make any difference of significance. He's on the outside looking in for a reason. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Magnus10" said: Based on last year’s performance, what we saw in the 1st preseason game, and this Bucs game, Ingram needs to be benched.

He caused a fumble in the Bucs game, he stepped on Cousins foot 3-4 times last year causing sacks and impacting drives.  

If any other player on the team had his poor performance over an extended period of time, they would probably not be starting.

I have no idea what the coaching staff is seeing.   I don’t care if it’s Chris Reed, Blake Brandel, or Dalton Risner, if we care about improving our interior OL and protecting Kirk, we have to TRY someone else at this position.  
If we are going to be a pass first offense, then we need to find a pass blocking RG. 
What do we really have to lose?  How much worse can it get?

was that strip on Ingram?  I thought that looked fucked up,  QBs are taught to get that snap into their chest immediately after the snap as they back pedal or turn to hand off.  Ingram pulling has to be looking down the field for his blocking assignment,  not to see that Kirk isnt holding the ball out in front of him.   I dont know for sure what the hell happened on that play,  but I cant see that it was on Ingram to make sure Kirk wasnt standing there with the ball extended away from his body IMO.

@"Zanary" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Magnus10" said: Based on last year’s performance, what we saw in the 1st preseason game, and this Bucs game, Ingram needs to be benched.

He caused a fumble in the Bucs game, he stepped on Cousins foot 3-4 times last year causing sacks and impacting drives.  

If any other player on the team had his poor performance over an extended period of time, they would probably not be starting.

I have no idea what the coaching staff is seeing.   I don’t care if it’s Chris Reed, Blake Brandel, or Dalton Risner, if we care about improving our interior OL and protecting Kirk, we have to TRY someone else at this position.  
If we are going to be a pass first offense, then we need to find a pass blocking RG. 
What do we really have to lose?  How much worse can it get?

was that strip on Ingram?  I thought that looked fucked up,  QBs are taught to get that snap into their chest immediately after the snap as they back pedal or turn to hand off.  Ingram pulling has to be looking down the field for his blocking assignment,  not to see that Kirk isnt holding the ball out in front of him.   I dont know for sure what the hell happened on that play,  but I cant see that it was on Ingram to make sure Kirk wasnt standing there with the ball extended away from his body IMO.

After watching a dozen replays, yeah...just like he had the capacity to repeatedly step on Cousins' foot last season, he turned and immediately had his big paw into the snap area.  His grades are typically terrible, because he's a terrible OG.

This isn't news, just a new way that he's made a lowlight with his play.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

was that strip on Ingram?  I thought that looked fucked up,  QBs are taught to get that snap into their chest immediately after the snap as they back pedal or turn to hand off.  Ingram pulling has to be looking down the field for his blocking assignment,  not to see that Kirk isnt holding the ball out in front of him.   I dont know for sure what the hell happened on that play,  but I cant see that it was on Ingram to make sure Kirk wasnt standing there with the ball extended away from his body IMO.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Magnus10" said: Based on last year’s performance, what we saw in the 1st preseason game, and this Bucs game, Ingram needs to be benched.

He caused a fumble in the Bucs game, he stepped on Cousins foot 3-4 times last year causing sacks and impacting drives.  

If any other player on the team had his poor performance over an extended period of time, they would probably not be starting.

I have no idea what the coaching staff is seeing.   I don’t care if it’s Chris Reed, Blake Brandel, or Dalton Risner, if we care about improving our interior OL and protecting Kirk, we have to TRY someone else at this position.  
If we are going to be a pass first offense, then we need to find a pass blocking RG. 
What do we really have to lose?  How much worse can it get?

was that strip on Ingram?  I thought that looked fucked up,  QBs are taught to get that snap into their chest immediately after the snap as they back pedal or turn to hand off.  Ingram pulling has to be looking down the field for his blocking assignment,  not to see that Kirk isnt holding the ball out in front of him.   I dont know for sure what the hell happened on that play,  but I cant see that it was on Ingram to make sure Kirk wasnt standing there with the ball extended away from his body IMO.

@"JR44" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

was that strip on Ingram?  I thought that looked fucked up,  QBs are taught to get that snap into their chest immediately after the snap as they back pedal or turn to hand off.  Ingram pulling has to be looking down the field for his blocking assignment,  not to see that Kirk isnt holding the ball out in front of him.   I dont know for sure what the hell happened on that play,  but I cant see that it was on Ingram to make sure Kirk wasnt standing there with the ball extended away from his body IMO.

It happened as soon as Kirk was grabbing the ball, Ingram throws his arms out right into the snap as he gets off the line, if he knows he is moving into the direction of the snap, why flail your arm out into that direction.  Looking at the pic is there a reason his arm needs to be that far out.  

@"Greylock" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"Greylock" said: At this point Ingram does not look like a starting caliber guard, not to say he wont develop into one but at this point is Risner really the answer?  If he is why hasn't he been signed?  Money, scheme fit, attitude I mean his former offensive line coaches from the Broncos are now employed by the Vikings yet he visited and left without a contract.  Maybe that should be a warning sign he is not worth what he may be asking for.  Oh and if he does sign and has a crappy game the Kwesi haters will be on here full force saying what a shitty signing he was.

A crappy game based on Ingram's crappy string of games or a crappy game based on an average starting Guard?  So you prefer to just sit and watch crappiness and not address a glaring weakness because another guy might also have a crappy game or two?  Risner's worst PFF grades are better than Ingrams best especially as a pass blocker which is where our interior is getting Kirk crushed and eventually hurt.  

So why hasn't he been signed by any team in the entire league?  If he is the answer to a porous line you think he would be on speed dial, yet his former coaches from the Broncos have even passed on him.  Makes you wonder maybe he isn't worth what ever he is asking for.

@"StickyBun" said: Risner isn't going to make any difference of significance. He's on the outside looking in for a reason. 

Going from a rookie who was close to setting the record amount of total pressures/hits recorded since 2009 in Ingram and Risner is not going to make any difference?  Thats the spirit :)  Kidding.  He might be asking for too much or a long term contract but this disaster needs to stop somehow with someone else (maybe try Brandel with Risner on speed dial).

@"greediron" said: Have you ever played guard?  Pulling entails getting a large body turned and moving quickly and that usually involves the arms.  Again, why is Kirk still there?  No work in the preseason and a new center are the likely culprits.

@"JR44" said:

@"greediron" said: Have you ever played guard?  Pulling entails getting a large body turned and moving quickly and that usually involves the arms.  Again, why is Kirk still there?  No work in the preseason and a new center are the likely culprits.

From rewatching it, it looks like Kirk is just getting the ball, don't think he could have done anything differently, maybe the center did not get the snap up to him quick enough.  Definitely could be not enough work together. I understand having to get out quickly, but do not think the arm needs to be that far out from the body.

@"greediron" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"greediron" said: Have you ever played guard?  Pulling entails getting a large body turned and moving quickly and that usually involves the arms.  Again, why is Kirk still there?  No work in the preseason and a new center are the likely culprits.

From rewatching it, it looks like Kirk is just getting the ball, don't think he could have done anything differently, maybe the center did not get the snap up to him quick enough.  Definitely could be not enough work together. I understand having to get out quickly, but do not think the arm needs to be that far out from the body.

I think it is a timing thing.  Schlotmann might not have been on time, or the placement was different and slowed Kirk down.

As to the arm, that is one of the ways a big man gets his body turned and gets moving, I wasn't any great coach and it was just Jr. Tackle, but that is how I taught my guards to get out of the stance and turned, to rip that elbow back and thereby turning the shoulders.