Browns waive Kellen Mond

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"BigAl99" said: Wait for it ..... RS / KAM comparisons. 

lol, yep. The 66th pick in the Draft. 66TH PICK!! Nice one, Rick. And don't forget KAM sucks.

Well since you brought it up, if you remember, Rick moved down from 14 to 23 and picked up 66 and 86 and he still got his guy who is a pro bowl LT and one of the best in the game.  Mond had the physical talent to potentially succeed and is the kind of QB you roll the dice on in the 3rd round.  Nothing was lost and he was playing with a free pick. 

That is how you run a draft and maximize your draft capital.  But then again maybe you prefer trades where we move all the way down from 12 to 32 and also give up a 2nd rounder (46) for 34 and 66.  That still does not seem possible!  But yeah if anyone questions the almighty one they are ostracized here :/

First, I'm not a Spielman basher. I thought he did ok with Minnesota. So relax with the onion skin. I just happen to want to give the new GM more than a year and a half on the job and coming off 13 wins.....but that's just me being level-headed and logical. 

When Zim made that comment, he should have cut Mond at the same time.  What was the point of keeping him on the roster after that?  KAM and KOC spoke volumes to me when they jettisoned both Mond and Manion the same day during Training Camp and signed Mullen.  "nuff of this crap".  Something decisive for a change.

@"medaille" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

First, I'm not a Spielman basher. I thought he did ok with Minnesota. So relax with the onion skin. I just happen to want to give the new GM more than a year and a half on the job and coming off 13 wins.....but that's just me being level-headed and logical. 

So being level headed and logical was taking a shot at Spielman that had no kind of validity to it?  Personally I credit the 13 wins more so to Rick than Kam, but that is just me being logical in terms of who carried the team last year.  

I’m not reading his comment as a pot shot against Spielman, as much as thinly veiled sarcasm mocking the fans that will say stupid things because they hate KAM.

@"greediron" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"BigAl99" said: Wait for it ..... RS / KAM comparisons. 

lol, yep. The 66th pick in the Draft. 66TH PICK!! Nice one, Rick. And don't forget KAM sucks.

Well since you brought it up, if you remember, Rick moved down from 14 to 23 and picked up 66 and 86 and he still got his guy who is a pro bowl LT and one of the best in the game.  Mond had the physical talent to potentially succeed and is the kind of QB you roll the dice on in the 3rd round.  Nothing was lost and he was playing with a free pick. 

That is how you run a draft and maximize your draft capital.  But then again maybe you prefer trades where we move all the way down from 12 to 32 and also give up a 2nd rounder (46) for 34 and 66.  That still does not seem possible!  But yeah if anyone questions the almighty one they are ostracized here :/

First, I'm not a Spielman basher. I thought he did ok with Minnesota. So relax with the onion skin. I just happen to want to give the new GM more than a year and a half on the job and coming off 13 wins.....but that's just me being level-headed and logical. 

Probably what threw people off.  ;)

@"ArizonaViking" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

First, I'm not a Spielman basher. I thought he did ok with Minnesota. So relax with the onion skin. I just happen to want to give the new GM more than a year and a half on the job and coming off 13 wins.....but that's just me being level-headed and logical. 

So being level headed and logical was taking a shot at Spielman that had no kind of validity to it?  Personally I credit the 13 wins more so to Rick than Kam, but that is just me being logical in terms of who carried the team last year.  

I credit Cousins and the team with the 13 wins, including Cousins' record of 4th quarter comebacks for a lot of those wins.

Look if anyone deserves ridicule, its people that just trash stuff before its shown real signs of defect.  throw away society at its finest. This regime hasnt done anything wrong yet that can be objectively argued.  Enjoy the season FFS. 

Another case in point. Mike Zimmer was a damn decent head coach. He had weaknesses that helped keep this team from going as far as they should, and he had run his course here as the guy that wasnt going to get us to the top, but the bashing of him like he sucks is just fanatic bullshit. 

@"Bullazin" said: Another case in point. Mike Zimmer was a damn decent head coach. He had weaknesses that helped keep this team from going as far as they should, and he had run his course here as the guy that wasnt going to get us to the top, but the bashing of him like he sucks is just fanatic bullshit. 

This was Zimmers problem, great coach up until the covid year and I don't think that's disputable. 2020 was a weird season, and his best defensive player and the straw that stirred the drink, Danielle Hunter, never even played a down on top of Linval Joseph amd Everson Gruffin both leaving in free agency. Xavier Rhodes and Trae Waynes (starting corners) also left in free agency. Zimm had to once again replace his offensive coordinator when Stefanski took the Browns job. We had a predictably bad season and finished 7-9

2021 we lose a record number of one score games, and Hunter is hurt once again. Zimmer had to replace another OC as Gary Kubiak retired. I can't even count the number of OC's Zimmer had to replace during his tenure. We finish 8-9 

Then he gets fired mostly due to frayed relationships within the organization after two down seasons. 

@"supafreak84" said: This was Zimmers problem, great coach up until the covid year and I don't think that's disputable. 2020 was a weird season, and his best defensive player and the straw that stirred the drink, Danielle Hunter, never even played a down on top of Linval Joseph amd Everson Gruffin both leaving in free agency. Xavier Rhodes and Trae Waynes (starting corners) also left in free agency. Zimm had to once again replace his offensive coordinator when Stefanski took the Browns job. We had a predictably bad season and finished 7-9

2021 we lose a record number of one score games, and Hunter is hurt once again. Zimmer had to replace another OC as Gary Kubiak retired. I can't even count the number of OC's Zimmer had to replace during his tenure. We finish 8-9 

Then he gets fired mostly due to frayed relationships within the organization after two down seasons. 

@"supafreak84" said: This was Zimmers problem, great coach up until the covid year and I don't think that's disputable. 2020 was a weird season, and his best defensive player and the straw that stirred the drink, Danielle Hunter, never even played a down on top of Linval Joseph amd Everson Gruffin both leaving in free agency. Xavier Rhodes and Trae Waynes (starting corners) also left in free agency. Zimm had to once again replace his offensive coordinator when Stefanski took the Browns job. We had a predictably bad season and finished 7-9

2021 we lose a record number of one score games, and Hunter is hurt once again. Zimmer had to replace another OC as Gary Kubiak retired. I can't even count the number of OC's Zimmer had to replace during his tenure. We finish 8-9 

Then he gets fired mostly due to frayed relationships within the organization after two down seasons. 

Zimmer was objectively a good but not great head coach.  His worst seasons were 7-9 seasons and he had
gotten into the playoffs multiple times, but couldn’t go further.  His .562 winning percentage is objectively
good.    I know there are some people who think that
every coach without a Lombardi is dog shit, but those people are bitter souls.

His teams had a minimum of mental mistakes.  I think they were usually well prepared and
players rarely looked around in confusion, a stark contrast to what we saw last
year on defense.  His players knew what was
expected of them, and criticism was mostly just.  That said, he wasn’t going to be able to win
a SB.  This is an offensive league that is
won by top shelf QBs, and his unwillingness to cultivate a productive
relationship with his QB and offensive staff was always going to be his
downfall.  You can’t be a head coach and
just let the offense handle itself. 

@"greediron" said:

@"supafreak84" said: This was Zimmers problem, great coach up until the covid year and I don't think that's disputable. 2020 was a weird season, and his best defensive player and the straw that stirred the drink, Danielle Hunter, never even played a down on top of Linval Joseph amd Everson Gruffin both leaving in free agency. Xavier Rhodes and Trae Waynes (starting corners) also left in free agency. Zimm had to once again replace his offensive coordinator when Stefanski took the Browns job. We had a predictably bad season and finished 7-9

2021 we lose a record number of one score games, and Hunter is hurt once again. Zimmer had to replace another OC as Gary Kubiak retired. I can't even count the number of OC's Zimmer had to replace during his tenure. We finish 8-9 

Then he gets fired mostly due to frayed relationships within the organization after two down seasons. 

Zimmer was a great defensive mind.  And yeah, I think the covid craziness cemented his decline.  But the biggest issue for him was being a defensive coach and having to replace the OC every year.  Stephanski and Shurmur were the only real standouts and they went away after 1 year.  That disruption of the offense was the insurmountable task.

Zim was not emotionally or temperamentally suited to the job of HC and that was evident by 2016.  His ceiling is DC.

@"comet52" said: Zim was not emotionally or temperamentally suited to the job of HC and that was evident by 2016.  His ceiling is DC.

Guess the Browns changed their mind

https://vikingsterritory.com/2023/news/analysis/browns-change-mind

@"supafreak84" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"supafreak84" said: This was Zimmers problem, great coach up until the covid year and I don't think that's disputable. 2020 was a weird season, and his best defensive player and the straw that stirred the drink, Danielle Hunter, never even played a down on top of Linval Joseph amd Everson Gruffin both leaving in free agency. Xavier Rhodes and Trae Waynes (starting corners) also left in free agency. Zimm had to once again replace his offensive coordinator when Stefanski took the Browns job. We had a predictably bad season and finished 7-9

2021 we lose a record number of one score games, and Hunter is hurt once again. Zimmer had to replace another OC as Gary Kubiak retired. I can't even count the number of OC's Zimmer had to replace during his tenure. We finish 8-9 

Then he gets fired mostly due to frayed relationships within the organization after two down seasons. 

Zimmer was a great defensive mind.  And yeah, I think the covid craziness cemented his decline.  But the biggest issue for him was being a defensive coach and having to replace the OC every year.  Stephanski and Shurmur were the only real standouts and they went away after 1 year.  That disruption of the offense was the insurmountable task.

Totally agree with you. The covid season coincided with losing some really key veteran pieces on defense. We were starting the process of "paying the piper" for our window the previous four years. Shuffling of OC's every year was the nail in the coffin for Zimm.

I think we could see the same with KOC on defense. If Flores has any kind of success, he'll be one and done and we will be looking for our 3rd DC in three seasons. Welcome to the club Kevin!

@"greediron" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"supafreak84" said: This was Zimmers problem, great coach up until the covid year and I don't think that's disputable. 2020 was a weird season, and his best defensive player and the straw that stirred the drink, Danielle Hunter, never even played a down on top of Linval Joseph amd Everson Gruffin both leaving in free agency. Xavier Rhodes and Trae Waynes (starting corners) also left in free agency. Zimm had to once again replace his offensive coordinator when Stefanski took the Browns job. We had a predictably bad season and finished 7-9

2021 we lose a record number of one score games, and Hunter is hurt once again. Zimmer had to replace another OC as Gary Kubiak retired. I can't even count the number of OC's Zimmer had to replace during his tenure. We finish 8-9 

Then he gets fired mostly due to frayed relationships within the organization after two down seasons. 

Zimmer was a great defensive mind.  And yeah, I think the covid craziness cemented his decline.  But the biggest issue for him was being a defensive coach and having to replace the OC every year.  Stephanski and Shurmur were the only real standouts and they went away after 1 year.  That disruption of the offense was the insurmountable task.

Totally agree with you. The covid season coincided with losing some really key veteran pieces on defense. We were starting the process of "paying the piper" for our window the previous four years. Shuffling of OC's every year was the nail in the coffin for Zimm.

I think we could see the same with KOC on defense. If Flores has any kind of success, he'll be one and done and we will be looking for our 3rd DC in three seasons. Welcome to the club Kevin!

Yeah, losing his top 3 corners definitely changed what he could do on D.

But I don't think defensive coordinators are as attractive as head coaches now and it seems easier to replace IMO.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Bullazin" said: Another case in point. Mike Zimmer was a damn decent head coach. He had weaknesses that helped keep this team from going as far as they should, and he had run his course here as the guy that wasnt going to get us to the top, but the bashing of him like he sucks is just fanatic bullshit. 

his clock/game management was not good,  his relationship with the O was not good,  his relationship with the ST guys not good, I dont think he worked the refs very well,  and his relationship with the media was shit ( but I give him a thumbs up for trying,  pretty sure I would have fared about as bad )  like I said,  he was a great D coach,  but after that he wasnt much to write home about.  Other than running a solid D when all the talent was there,  what do you think he did a good job of while he was in MN?

@"Bullazin" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Bullazin" said: Another case in point. Mike Zimmer was a damn decent head coach. He had weaknesses that helped keep this team from going as far as they should, and he had run his course here as the guy that wasnt going to get us to the top, but the bashing of him like he sucks is just fanatic bullshit. 

his clock/game management was not good,  his relationship with the O was not good,  his relationship with the ST guys not good, I dont think he worked the refs very well,  and his relationship with the media was shit ( but I give him a thumbs up for trying,  pretty sure I would have fared about as bad )  like I said,  he was a great D coach,  but after that he wasnt much to write home about.  Other than running a solid D when all the talent was there,  what do you think he did a good job of while he was in MN?

@supa mentioned about his roster luck and such, he reportedly ran Carlson off and wasnt especially good with relationships.  Bottom line though he had a good record and got teams to the playoffs and held it together until his handpicked d guys aged out.