All Time Vikings Team

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Skodin" said: God damn look at those trenches Zimmerman, McDaniel (best G ever?), Hutch, Mick Doleman, Randle, Eller, Page with players like Allen, Williams, Williams, Thomas (should be in the HOF) not cracking the lineup

Receivers?  Best franchise for receivers as well with studs in every decade
70s White and Gilliam
80s Ahmad Rashad and Anthony Carter
90s Cris Carter and Moss
2000s Moss
2010s Harvin, Diggs, Adam
2020s Jefferson

The Niners would be the only team close with a top 5 WR list of: 
Rice-Owens-Taylor-Deebo-Crabtree vs Moss-Carter-Jefferson-Harvin-Diggs/Adam

This is why we have never had a chance for a franchise QB, every decade we have been lucky to have all time great level players that elevate the team but is not enough to get over the edge

Completely agree with you. The Vikings franchise has been around for 52 years and we have NEVER drafted a quarterback in the top 10. We've only drafted four 1st round quarterbacks in our history; Kramer, Culpepper, Ponder, and Bridgewater. It really is crazy to think about and I'd have to think the probability of something like that happening is minuscule 

What, drafting a QB in the top 10? That changes in '24. Write it down. 

Done deal. Which one are we going with?

Im more concerned with how we get there,  we've got 8 months to figure out the who.

It will have to be a mortgage. Might also include a player. 

thats why I was more willing to move on from KC now than let him play it out and potentially walk.  if we could have flipped him for a day 1 or early day 2 pick,  that would help pay that mortgage, also it would have let to a higher starting spot to deal from which always helps keep that mortgage down if you have a bigger down payment.  I am afraid we will once again be in the low 20s and have to give up a kings ransom to get into that top 5 to get a guy we covet... and if they dont absolutely covet a guy then why make that leap?

They wouldn't. But there are players to covet every year. I counted 8 QBs in the last mock draft I saw (it will more likely be about half that).

Yes, they will pay a king's ransom for it. But they won't be the first team to do that or the last. 

The latest Walter Football mock draft has two quarterbacks going in the first round, although I think Michael Pennix could sneak into the mix at some point. The two guys at the top (Williams and Maye) are universally thought of as top 3 prospects and Williams is thought to be one of those rare Andrew Luck type prospects. Any team holding a winning lottery ticket to draft him probably isn't giving it up for 5 first round picks and the cost for Maye wouldn't be far behind. 

So to me, the Vikings as currently constructed are a mid teens to early 20's drafting team for this upcoming draft. The price tag to move up into the top 3 would be massive if you even had a team willing to talk trade. It's why I tend to agree with Jimmy that if that's the plan, it would have made sense to move off Cousons now, take our lumps this upcoming season, and hopefully be bad enough to be in position to land one of those elite prospects to propel this franchise into the future without having to give up a Hershall Walker-esque package attempting to move up. But that's what you get with a "competitive rebuild." You are competitive enough to not be in position to land one of those elite prospects that this franchise absolutely needs moving forward 

I know you guys love the idea of trading Cousins and taking a year off. As a fan, there are no consequences. I can assure you teams don't think that way. Especially teams as talented as this one. 

I know the team doesn't think like that, but again if we are not real contenders (which most don't believe us to be), then would it not be more advantageous to move Cousins (if hes not in our long term plans anways), take a lump year, then paying the massive cost of having to move up into the top 5 to grab our QBOTF? 

The closest comp we have for a move up somewhat similar is the 49ers moving from 12 to 3 for Trey Lance. That cost was three 1st round picks. How much do you think it would cost to move up from say 20 to 3 for Drake Maye? It would be massive and I would not want to see us get saddled into that position moving forward all to keep Cousins for one more season where we aren't a Super Bowl favorite. Not worth it. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Skodin" said: God damn look at those trenches Zimmerman, McDaniel (best G ever?), Hutch, Mick Doleman, Randle, Eller, Page with players like Allen, Williams, Williams, Thomas (should be in the HOF) not cracking the lineup

Receivers?  Best franchise for receivers as well with studs in every decade
70s White and Gilliam
80s Ahmad Rashad and Anthony Carter
90s Cris Carter and Moss
2000s Moss
2010s Harvin, Diggs, Adam
2020s Jefferson

The Niners would be the only team close with a top 5 WR list of: 
Rice-Owens-Taylor-Deebo-Crabtree vs Moss-Carter-Jefferson-Harvin-Diggs/Adam

This is why we have never had a chance for a franchise QB, every decade we have been lucky to have all time great level players that elevate the team but is not enough to get over the edge

Completely agree with you. The Vikings franchise has been around for 52 years and we have NEVER drafted a quarterback in the top 10. We've only drafted four 1st round quarterbacks in our history; Kramer, Culpepper, Ponder, and Bridgewater. It really is crazy to think about and I'd have to think the probability of something like that happening is minuscule 

What, drafting a QB in the top 10? That changes in '24. Write it down. 

Done deal. Which one are we going with?

Im more concerned with how we get there,  we've got 8 months to figure out the who.

It will have to be a mortgage. Might also include a player. 

thats why I was more willing to move on from KC now than let him play it out and potentially walk.  if we could have flipped him for a day 1 or early day 2 pick,  that would help pay that mortgage, also it would have let to a higher starting spot to deal from which always helps keep that mortgage down if you have a bigger down payment.  I am afraid we will once again be in the low 20s and have to give up a kings ransom to get into that top 5 to get a guy we covet... and if they dont absolutely covet a guy then why make that leap?

They wouldn't. But there are players to covet every year. I counted 8 QBs in the last mock draft I saw (it will more likely be about half that).

Yes, they will pay a king's ransom for it. But they won't be the first team to do that or the last. 

The latest Walter Football mock draft has two quarterbacks going in the first round, although I think Michael Pennix could sneak into the mix at some point. The two guys at the top (Williams and Maye) are universally thought of as top 3 prospects and Williams is thought to be one of those rare Andrew Luck type prospects. Any team holding a winning lottery ticket to draft him probably isn't giving it up for 5 first round picks and the cost for Maye wouldn't be far behind. 

So to me, the Vikings as currently constructed are a mid teens to early 20's drafting team for this upcoming draft. The price tag to move up into the top 3 would be massive if you even had a team willing to talk trade. It's why I tend to agree with Jimmy that if that's the plan, it would have made sense to move off Cousons now, take our lumps this upcoming season, and hopefully be bad enough to be in position to land one of those elite prospects to propel this franchise into the future without having to give up a Hershall Walker-esque package attempting to move up. But that's what you get with a "competitive rebuild." You are competitive enough to not be in position to land one of those elite prospects that this franchise absolutely needs moving forward 

I know you guys love the idea of trading Cousins and taking a year off. As a fan, there are no consequences. I can assure you teams don't think that way. Especially teams as talented as this one. 

I know the team doesn't think like that, but again if we are not real contenders (which most don't believe us to be), then would it not be more advantageous to move Cousins (if hes not in our long term plans anways), take a lump year, then paying the massive cost of having to move up into the top 5 to grab our QBOTF? 

The closest comp we have for a move up somewhat similar is the 49ers moving from 12 to 3 for Trey Lance. That cost was three 1st round picks. How much do you think it would cost to move up from say 20 to 3 for Drake Maye? It would be massive and I would not want to see us get saddled into that position moving forward all to keep Cousins for one more season where we aren't a Super Bowl favorite. Not worth it. 

It would likely include a player. It might even include Justin Jefferson, though I think that would be very unlikely. And stupid. More likely a player like Hunter or O'Neill. Also, keep in mind that I've never believed in the idea that only four or five teams are "legit" contenders. I think half the league is. And we're certainly in that group. If we pick at 20 we're a playoff team. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Skodin" said: God damn look at those trenches Zimmerman, McDaniel (best G ever?), Hutch, Mick Doleman, Randle, Eller, Page with players like Allen, Williams, Williams, Thomas (should be in the HOF) not cracking the lineup

Receivers?  Best franchise for receivers as well with studs in every decade
70s White and Gilliam
80s Ahmad Rashad and Anthony Carter
90s Cris Carter and Moss
2000s Moss
2010s Harvin, Diggs, Adam
2020s Jefferson

The Niners would be the only team close with a top 5 WR list of: 
Rice-Owens-Taylor-Deebo-Crabtree vs Moss-Carter-Jefferson-Harvin-Diggs/Adam

This is why we have never had a chance for a franchise QB, every decade we have been lucky to have all time great level players that elevate the team but is not enough to get over the edge

Completely agree with you. The Vikings franchise has been around for 52 years and we have NEVER drafted a quarterback in the top 10. We've only drafted four 1st round quarterbacks in our history; Kramer, Culpepper, Ponder, and Bridgewater. It really is crazy to think about and I'd have to think the probability of something like that happening is minuscule 

What, drafting a QB in the top 10? That changes in '24. Write it down. 

Done deal. Which one are we going with?

Im more concerned with how we get there,  we've got 8 months to figure out the who.

It will have to be a mortgage. Might also include a player. 

thats why I was more willing to move on from KC now than let him play it out and potentially walk.  if we could have flipped him for a day 1 or early day 2 pick,  that would help pay that mortgage, also it would have let to a higher starting spot to deal from which always helps keep that mortgage down if you have a bigger down payment.  I am afraid we will once again be in the low 20s and have to give up a kings ransom to get into that top 5 to get a guy we covet... and if they dont absolutely covet a guy then why make that leap?

They wouldn't. But there are players to covet every year. I counted 8 QBs in the last mock draft I saw (it will more likely be about half that).

Yes, they will pay a king's ransom for it. But they won't be the first team to do that or the last. 

The latest Walter Football mock draft has two quarterbacks going in the first round, although I think Michael Pennix could sneak into the mix at some point. The two guys at the top (Williams and Maye) are universally thought of as top 3 prospects and Williams is thought to be one of those rare Andrew Luck type prospects. Any team holding a winning lottery ticket to draft him probably isn't giving it up for 5 first round picks and the cost for Maye wouldn't be far behind. 

So to me, the Vikings as currently constructed are a mid teens to early 20's drafting team for this upcoming draft. The price tag to move up into the top 3 would be massive if you even had a team willing to talk trade. It's why I tend to agree with Jimmy that if that's the plan, it would have made sense to move off Cousons now, take our lumps this upcoming season, and hopefully be bad enough to be in position to land one of those elite prospects to propel this franchise into the future without having to give up a Hershall Walker-esque package attempting to move up. But that's what you get with a "competitive rebuild." You are competitive enough to not be in position to land one of those elite prospects that this franchise absolutely needs moving forward 

I know you guys love the idea of trading Cousins and taking a year off. As a fan, there are no consequences. I can assure you teams don't think that way. Especially teams as talented as this one. 

I know the team doesn't think like that, but again if we are not real contenders (which most don't believe us to be), then would it not be more advantageous to move Cousins (if hes not in our long term plans anways), take a lump year, then paying the massive cost of having to move up into the top 5 to grab our QBOTF? 

The closest comp we have for a move up somewhat similar is the 49ers moving from 12 to 3 for Trey Lance. That cost was three 1st round picks. How much do you think it would cost to move up from say 20 to 3 for Drake Maye? It would be massive and I would not want to see us get saddled into that position moving forward all to keep Cousins for one more season where we aren't a Super Bowl favorite. Not worth it. 

It would likely include a player. It might even include Justin Jefferson, though I think that would be very unlikely. And stupid. More likely a player like Hunter or O'Neill. Also, keep in mind that I've never believed in the idea that only four or five teams are "legit" contenders. I think half the league is. And we're certainly in that group. If we pick at 20 we're a playoff team. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Skodin" said: God damn look at those trenches Zimmerman, McDaniel (best G ever?), Hutch, Mick Doleman, Randle, Eller, Page with players like Allen, Williams, Williams, Thomas (should be in the HOF) not cracking the lineup

Receivers?  Best franchise for receivers as well with studs in every decade
70s White and Gilliam
80s Ahmad Rashad and Anthony Carter
90s Cris Carter and Moss
2000s Moss
2010s Harvin, Diggs, Adam
2020s Jefferson

The Niners would be the only team close with a top 5 WR list of: 
Rice-Owens-Taylor-Deebo-Crabtree vs Moss-Carter-Jefferson-Harvin-Diggs/Adam

This is why we have never had a chance for a franchise QB, every decade we have been lucky to have all time great level players that elevate the team but is not enough to get over the edge

Completely agree with you. The Vikings franchise has been around for 52 years and we have NEVER drafted a quarterback in the top 10. We've only drafted four 1st round quarterbacks in our history; Kramer, Culpepper, Ponder, and Bridgewater. It really is crazy to think about and I'd have to think the probability of something like that happening is minuscule 

What, drafting a QB in the top 10? That changes in '24. Write it down. 

Done deal. Which one are we going with?

Im more concerned with how we get there,  we've got 8 months to figure out the who.

It will have to be a mortgage. Might also include a player. 

thats why I was more willing to move on from KC now than let him play it out and potentially walk.  if we could have flipped him for a day 1 or early day 2 pick,  that would help pay that mortgage, also it would have let to a higher starting spot to deal from which always helps keep that mortgage down if you have a bigger down payment.  I am afraid we will once again be in the low 20s and have to give up a kings ransom to get into that top 5 to get a guy we covet... and if they dont absolutely covet a guy then why make that leap?

They wouldn't. But there are players to covet every year. I counted 8 QBs in the last mock draft I saw (it will more likely be about half that).

Yes, they will pay a king's ransom for it. But they won't be the first team to do that or the last. 

The latest Walter Football mock draft has two quarterbacks going in the first round, although I think Michael Pennix could sneak into the mix at some point. The two guys at the top (Williams and Maye) are universally thought of as top 3 prospects and Williams is thought to be one of those rare Andrew Luck type prospects. Any team holding a winning lottery ticket to draft him probably isn't giving it up for 5 first round picks and the cost for Maye wouldn't be far behind. 

So to me, the Vikings as currently constructed are a mid teens to early 20's drafting team for this upcoming draft. The price tag to move up into the top 3 would be massive if you even had a team willing to talk trade. It's why I tend to agree with Jimmy that if that's the plan, it would have made sense to move off Cousons now, take our lumps this upcoming season, and hopefully be bad enough to be in position to land one of those elite prospects to propel this franchise into the future without having to give up a Hershall Walker-esque package attempting to move up. But that's what you get with a "competitive rebuild." You are competitive enough to not be in position to land one of those elite prospects that this franchise absolutely needs moving forward 

I know you guys love the idea of trading Cousins and taking a year off. As a fan, there are no consequences. I can assure you teams don't think that way. Especially teams as talented as this one. 

I know the team doesn't think like that, but again if we are not real contenders (which most don't believe us to be), then would it not be more advantageous to move Cousins (if hes not in our long term plans anways), take a lump year, then paying the massive cost of having to move up into the top 5 to grab our QBOTF? 

The closest comp we have for a move up somewhat similar is the 49ers moving from 12 to 3 for Trey Lance. That cost was three 1st round picks. How much do you think it would cost to move up from say 20 to 3 for Drake Maye? It would be massive and I would not want to see us get saddled into that position moving forward all to keep Cousins for one more season where we aren't a Super Bowl favorite. Not worth it. 

It would likely include a player. It might even include Justin Jefferson, though I think that would be very unlikely. And stupid. More likely a player like Hunter or O'Neill. Also, keep in mind that I've never believed in the idea that only four or five teams are "legit" contenders. I think half the league is. And we're certainly in that group. If we pick at 20 we're a playoff team. 

Damn near half the league is a playoff team,   but that doesn't mean you are a legit contender for a superbowl,  

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Skodin" said: God damn look at those trenches Zimmerman, McDaniel (best G ever?), Hutch, Mick Doleman, Randle, Eller, Page with players like Allen, Williams, Williams, Thomas (should be in the HOF) not cracking the lineup

Receivers?  Best franchise for receivers as well with studs in every decade
70s White and Gilliam
80s Ahmad Rashad and Anthony Carter
90s Cris Carter and Moss
2000s Moss
2010s Harvin, Diggs, Adam
2020s Jefferson

The Niners would be the only team close with a top 5 WR list of: 
Rice-Owens-Taylor-Deebo-Crabtree vs Moss-Carter-Jefferson-Harvin-Diggs/Adam

This is why we have never had a chance for a franchise QB, every decade we have been lucky to have all time great level players that elevate the team but is not enough to get over the edge

Completely agree with you. The Vikings franchise has been around for 52 years and we have NEVER drafted a quarterback in the top 10. We've only drafted four 1st round quarterbacks in our history; Kramer, Culpepper, Ponder, and Bridgewater. It really is crazy to think about and I'd have to think the probability of something like that happening is minuscule 

What, drafting a QB in the top 10? That changes in '24. Write it down. 

Done deal. Which one are we going with?

Im more concerned with how we get there,  we've got 8 months to figure out the who.

It will have to be a mortgage. Might also include a player. 

thats why I was more willing to move on from KC now than let him play it out and potentially walk.  if we could have flipped him for a day 1 or early day 2 pick,  that would help pay that mortgage, also it would have let to a higher starting spot to deal from which always helps keep that mortgage down if you have a bigger down payment.  I am afraid we will once again be in the low 20s and have to give up a kings ransom to get into that top 5 to get a guy we covet... and if they dont absolutely covet a guy then why make that leap?

They wouldn't. But there are players to covet every year. I counted 8 QBs in the last mock draft I saw (it will more likely be about half that).

Yes, they will pay a king's ransom for it. But they won't be the first team to do that or the last. 

The latest Walter Football mock draft has two quarterbacks going in the first round, although I think Michael Pennix could sneak into the mix at some point. The two guys at the top (Williams and Maye) are universally thought of as top 3 prospects and Williams is thought to be one of those rare Andrew Luck type prospects. Any team holding a winning lottery ticket to draft him probably isn't giving it up for 5 first round picks and the cost for Maye wouldn't be far behind. 

So to me, the Vikings as currently constructed are a mid teens to early 20's drafting team for this upcoming draft. The price tag to move up into the top 3 would be massive if you even had a team willing to talk trade. It's why I tend to agree with Jimmy that if that's the plan, it would have made sense to move off Cousons now, take our lumps this upcoming season, and hopefully be bad enough to be in position to land one of those elite prospects to propel this franchise into the future without having to give up a Hershall Walker-esque package attempting to move up. But that's what you get with a "competitive rebuild." You are competitive enough to not be in position to land one of those elite prospects that this franchise absolutely needs moving forward 

I know you guys love the idea of trading Cousins and taking a year off. As a fan, there are no consequences. I can assure you teams don't think that way. Especially teams as talented as this one. 

I know the team doesn't think like that, but again if we are not real contenders (which most don't believe us to be), then would it not be more advantageous to move Cousins (if hes not in our long term plans anways), take a lump year, then paying the massive cost of having to move up into the top 5 to grab our QBOTF? 

The closest comp we have for a move up somewhat similar is the 49ers moving from 12 to 3 for Trey Lance. That cost was three 1st round picks. How much do you think it would cost to move up from say 20 to 3 for Drake Maye? It would be massive and I would not want to see us get saddled into that position moving forward all to keep Cousins for one more season where we aren't a Super Bowl favorite. Not worth it. 

It would likely include a player. It might even include Justin Jefferson, though I think that would be very unlikely. And stupid. More likely a player like Hunter or O'Neill. Also, keep in mind that I've never believed in the idea that only four or five teams are "legit" contenders. I think half the league is. And we're certainly in that group. If we pick at 20 we're a playoff team. 

Damn near half the league is a playoff team,   but that doesn't mean you are a legit contender for a superbowl,  

Yeah, I think it does actually. While about half of the Super Bowls won in the last 15-20 years have been won by dominant teams, the other half were won by a team who just got hot and healthy at the right time. 

@"supafreak84" said:

Hunter might not be an option as we are still figuring out what we are doing with him and his holdout this offseason and might trade him now. Unless we are talking about a young star, and I count us as having two (JJ and Darrisaw), I don't think another team would want anybody else on our roster in lew of a 1st round or high draft pick..

I think we were solidly behind Philly, Dallas, SF, and the Giants (obviously) last year in the conference. I don't think any of those teams got worse and I think a Cook-less Vikings team is much less potent. Seattle and the Lions have both gotten better. There are probably half a dozen teams in the AFC with better rosters. I just don't believe in the "competitive rebuild" model unless you already have a franchise QB in the fold and think we are wasting more years just being "good" without a real contingency plan to make us elite.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

Hunter might not be an option as we are still figuring out what we are doing with him and his holdout this offseason and might trade him now. Unless we are talking about a young star, and I count us as having two (JJ and Darrisaw), I don't think another team would want anybody else on our roster in lew of a 1st round or high draft pick..

I think we were solidly behind Philly, Dallas, SF, and the Giants (obviously) last year in the conference. I don't think any of those teams got worse and I think a Cook-less Vikings team is much less potent. Seattle and the Lions have both gotten better. There are probably half a dozen teams in the AFC with better rosters. I just don't believe in the "competitive rebuild" model unless you already have a franchise QB in the fold and think we are wasting more years just being "good" without a real contingency plan to make us elite.

Just depends on the defense. I expect the offense to be quite a bit better going into its 2nd season. Even without Cook. The defense is the big unknown due to all the youth, the new scheme and uncertainty surrounding Hunter. But if Flores can bump that unit into the teens, then the Vikings will do well. 

What's all this about Seattle? Is it just because they drafted JSN? Yeah, that trio of receivers looks scary, but is that all people pay attention to? They still have a horrible offensive line, one of the worst in the NFL. And what about Geno Smith? Has he ever put together two good years in a row? 

The Lions roster has a bright future. If all those new, young faces can gel in one season, they could take the division from us. But I find it amusing that so many Viking fans who doubt the 31st ranked defense with a new DC can improve at all....sure seem convinced the 32nd ranked defense will improve with the same DC. 

Nice list. I would diverge on the QB and 2 of the linebackers. Tarkenton, Studwell and Siemon over Henderson and Greenway (yeah I know that's 2 MLB). I would also give strong consideration to Ed McDaniel, as well as the woefully underappreciated Jim Marshall in Doleman's spot. Would agree with the balance.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

Hunter might not be an option as we are still figuring out what we are doing with him and his holdout this offseason and might trade him now. Unless we are talking about a young star, and I count us as having two (JJ and Darrisaw), I don't think another team would want anybody else on our roster in lew of a 1st round or high draft pick..

I think we were solidly behind Philly, Dallas, SF, and the Giants (obviously) last year in the conference. I don't think any of those teams got worse and I think a Cook-less Vikings team is much less potent. Seattle and the Lions have both gotten better. There are probably half a dozen teams in the AFC with better rosters. I just don't believe in the "competitive rebuild" model unless you already have a franchise QB in the fold and think we are wasting more years just being "good" without a real contingency plan to make us elite.

Just depends on the defense. I expect the offense to be quite a bit better going into its 2nd season. Even without Cook. The defense is the big unknown due to all the youth, the new scheme and uncertainty surrounding Hunter. But if Flores can bump that unit into the teens, then the Vikings will do well. 

What's all this about Seattle? Is it just because they drafted JSN? Yeah, that trio of receivers looks scary, but is that all people pay attention to? They still have a horrible offensive line, one of the worst in the NFL. And what about Geno Smith? Has he ever put together two good years in a row? 

The Lions roster has a bright future. If all those new, young faces can gel in one season, they could take the division from us. But I find it amusing that so many Viking fans who doubt the 31st ranked defense with a new DC can improve at all....sure seem convinced the 32nd ranked defense will improve with the same DC. 

I've heard a lot of people "in the know" on NFL Radio picking the Seahawks to win their division this year over San Francisco. It's not just the trio of receivers, but the combination of their terrific draft class last season (bookend tackles, Kenneth Walker, Tariq Woolen) combined with what they've added this offseason and the momentum they built last season. Shane Waldren returns as their OC and that's going to go a long ways in keeping Geno Smith on track. The one glaring area of weakness I see for them is pass rusher, which is why I mentioned them as a prime destination as a trade partner if the Vikings dealt Hunter. Oh and they get Jamal Adams and Bobby Wagner back...

On the Lions, we know that offense is good and they can score, but they've actually added impact pieces to their defense that would lead you to believe they should be better. Jack Campbell, Cam Sutton, CJ Gardner-Johnson, Emanuel Mosley. The Vikings are just hoping a bunch of young, unproven guys step up and fill roles in yet another new scheme. If we trade Hunter we are in trouble..

@"supafreak84" said: QB- Brett Favre, and I say this based only on his one season (2009) and it being the only time Ive EVER felt we've had an elite quarterback. Fran has all the franchise stats but Favre is universally considered the better quarterback. Culpepper is the only other option but I never felt he was on the level of Favre, even into his 40's. I have no doubt we would have won the Super Bowl in 2009 if it wasn't for the Saints essentially putting a bounty on Favre and trying to injure him. Controversial based on only two seasons in Minnesota but 2009 was the greatest ride I've ever experienced as a fan in large part due to Brett Favre..

RB- Adrian Peterson
WR- Randy Moss
WR- Cris Carter
WR- Justin Jefferson
TE- Steve Jordan
LT- Gary Zimmerman
LG- Randall McDaniel
C- Mick Tingelhoff
RG- Steve Hutchinson
RT- Ron Yary 

DE- Carl Eller
DT- John Randle
DT- Alan Page
DE- Chris Doleman 
LB- Matt Blair
LB- EJ Henderson
LB- Chad Greenway
CB- Carl Lee
CB- Antoine Wifield
S- Joey Browner
S- Paul Krause 

I'm not going to get into kickers as that's too painful a topic. On the defensive lineman, that was incredibly rough picking just four and the strength of this football team over the years has clearly been the defensive line and we've reinvented that unit into three of the most dominant units in the history of the league from the Purple People Eaters, to that 80's unit, to the Williams Wall and Jared Allen destroying the league. Just look at the players left off; Jim Marshall, Keith Millard, Henry Thomas, Doug Martin, Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Jared Allen, and the list goes on. Again, it brings me a lot of pain seeing this franchise transition to a 3-4 relying on tricky blitz packages and our best pass rushers dropping into coverage. Also tough leaving Harrison Smith off my list.

On your DT, you don't have a NT, but your point about the dominance we have had at D-line is crazy.  I think Linval Joseph belongs on that list with Pat Williams.  

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

Hunter might not be an option as we are still figuring out what we are doing with him and his holdout this offseason and might trade him now. Unless we are talking about a young star, and I count us as having two (JJ and Darrisaw), I don't think another team would want anybody else on our roster in lew of a 1st round or high draft pick..

I think we were solidly behind Philly, Dallas, SF, and the Giants (obviously) last year in the conference. I don't think any of those teams got worse and I think a Cook-less Vikings team is much less potent. Seattle and the Lions have both gotten better. There are probably half a dozen teams in the AFC with better rosters. I just don't believe in the "competitive rebuild" model unless you already have a franchise QB in the fold and think we are wasting more years just being "good" without a real contingency plan to make us elite.

Just depends on the defense. I expect the offense to be quite a bit better going into its 2nd season. Even without Cook. The defense is the big unknown due to all the youth, the new scheme and uncertainty surrounding Hunter. But if Flores can bump that unit into the teens, then the Vikings will do well. 

What's all this about Seattle? Is it just because they drafted JSN? Yeah, that trio of receivers looks scary, but is that all people pay attention to? They still have a horrible offensive line, one of the worst in the NFL. And what about Geno Smith? Has he ever put together two good years in a row? 

The Lions roster has a bright future. If all those new, young faces can gel in one season, they could take the division from us. But I find it amusing that so many Viking fans who doubt the 31st ranked defense with a new DC can improve at all....sure seem convinced the 32nd ranked defense will improve with the same DC. 

I've heard a lot of people "in the know" on NFL Radio picking the Seahawks to win their division this year over San Francisco. It's not just the trio of receivers, but the combination of their terrific draft class last season (bookend tackles, Kenneth Walker, Tariq Woolen) combined with what they've added this offseason and the momentum they built last season. Shane Waldren returns as their OC and that's going to go a long ways in keeping Geno Smith on track. The one glaring area of weakness I see for them is pass rusher, which is why I mentioned them as a prime destination as a trade partner if the Vikings dealt Hunter. Oh and they get Jamal Adams and Bobby Wagner back...

On the Lions, we know that offense is good and they can score, but they've actually added impact pieces to their defense that would lead you to believe they should be better. Jack Campbell, Cam Sutton, CJ Gardner-Johnson, Emanuel Mosley. The Vikings are just hoping a bunch of young, unproven guys step up and fill roles in yet another new scheme. If we trade Hunter we are in trouble..

There is no one "in the know" when it comes to predicting the season. For example, two years ago the Jets ranked dead last in defense. I doubt anyone predicted they would rank 4th last year. It's not 1975 anymore. Teams change and evolve very quickly now. In 2019, the Bucs finished 7-9. The next year they won the Super Bowl. That year, the Bengals finished 4-11, the next year they were AFC champs. 

I don't expect the Vikings' defense to improve from bottom to top in one year like the Jets did. But they don't need to. I agree with your last sentence though.  

@"Rigby" said: Nice list. I would diverge on the QB and 2 of the linebackers. Tarkenton, Studwell and Siemon over Henderson and Greenway (yeah I know that's 2 MLB). I would also give strong consideration to Ed McDaniel, as well as the woefully underappreciated Jim Marshall in Doleman's spot. Would agree with the balance.

@"supafreak84" said:

To me this just reeks of a .500 type football team 

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"Rigby" said: Nice list. I would diverge on the QB and 2 of the linebackers. Tarkenton, Studwell and Siemon over Henderson and Greenway (yeah I know that's 2 MLB). I would also give strong consideration to Ed McDaniel, as well as the woefully underappreciated Jim Marshall in Doleman's spot. Would agree with the balance.

Was going to mention Marshall as well. Even though he's well known by Vikings fans I believe he's one of the most underrated DE's ever and should be in the HOF. 

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"Rigby" said: Nice list. I would diverge on the QB and 2 of the linebackers. Tarkenton, Studwell and Siemon over Henderson and Greenway (yeah I know that's 2 MLB). I would also give strong consideration to Ed McDaniel, as well as the woefully underappreciated Jim Marshall in Doleman's spot. Would agree with the balance.

Was going to mention Marshall as well. Even though he's well known by Vikings fans I believe he's one of the most underrated DE's ever and should be in the HOF. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

To me this just reeks of a .500 type football team 

Might be. As I always say, every team in the NFL is a couple of players, key bounces and injuries away from a reversed fortune. You seem to only acknowledge the negative though. And yes, there are a few of those (Thielen>Addison, Cook>Mattison), but neither is a huge downgrade. Considering how ineffective Thielen was late last year, Addison might even be an upgrade.

And sure, the secondary is young and injury prone, but late last year we were starting Chandon Sullivan, Cam Dantzler and a practice squad player who was cut from the worst team in the NFL. He played well for us, but still.

There are just as many reasons why this team might be even better than last year. Maybe not a better record, but it could be a better overall team. 

1. Kirk Cousins returning to the same offensive scheme for the first time since 2016. Same five OL returning for the first time in a decade. Don't discount continuity. It's huge. Cook or not, this offense is going to be very, very good. 
2. A full year and a full training camp for Hockenson. Josh Oliver. 
3. Brian Flores. How does a team win 13 games with a defense as bad as ours was? It's mind boggling. I'm not expecting a "good" defense until 2024, but a middling defense makes the Vikings a tough team to beat. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

To me this just reeks of a .500 type football team 

Might be. As I always say, every team in the NFL is a couple of players, key bounces and injuries away from a reversed fortune. You seem to only acknowledge the negative though. And yes, there are a few of those (Thielen>Addison, Cook>Mattison), but neither is a huge downgrade. Considering how ineffective Thielen was late last year, Addison might even be an upgrade.

And sure, the secondary is young and injury prone, but late last year we were starting Chandon Sullivan, Cam Dantzler and a practice squad player who was cut from the worst team in the NFL. He played well for us, but still.

There are just as many reasons why this team might be even better than last year. Maybe not a better record, but it could be a better overall team. 

1. Kirk Cousins returning to the same offensive scheme for the first time since 2016. Same five OL returning for the first time in a decade. Don't discount continuity. It's huge. Cook or not, this offense is going to be very, very good. 
2. A full year and a full training camp for Hockenson. Josh Oliver. 
3. Brian Flores. How does a team win 13 games with a defense as bad as ours was? It's mind boggling. I'm not expecting a "good" defense until 2024, but a middling defense makes the Vikings a tough team to beat. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"supafreak84" said: QB- Brett Favre, and I say this based only on his one season (2009) and it being the only time Ive EVER felt we've had an elite quarterback. Fran has all the franchise stats but Favre is universally considered the better quarterback. Culpepper is the only other option but I never felt he was on the level of Favre, even into his 40's. I have no doubt we would have won the Super Bowl in 2009 if it wasn't for the Saints essentially putting a bounty on Favre and trying to injure him. Controversial based on only two seasons in Minnesota but 2009 was the greatest ride I've ever experienced as a fan in large part due to Brett Favre..

RB- Adrian Peterson
WR- Randy Moss
WR- Cris Carter
WR- Justin Jefferson
TE- Steve Jordan
LT- Gary Zimmerman
LG- Randall McDaniel
C- Mick Tingelhoff
RG- Steve Hutchinson
RT- Ron Yary 

DE- Carl Eller
DT- John Randle
DT- Alan Page
DE- Chris Doleman 
LB- Matt Blair
LB- EJ Henderson
LB- Chad Greenway
CB- Carl Lee
CB- Antoine Wifield
S- Joey Browner
S- Paul Krause 

Not a bad list!

We'll all certainly have our own takes...I was in my teens the last time the Vikings played in a SB

Tweaks for me:

I cant put Favre on the list for one fun year over Tark
Much as I love JJ, he's got more to prove b4 I put him on an all time list over Rashad or White
Henderson/Greenway dont make my list over Studwell and McNeil
Ed White would get a lot of OG consideration - but McDaniel is maybe the greatest to have played the position. 

Agree on the LBs. And Ed White would get consideration, but I don't think he was better than Hutch. And Tark (even though I hate the man) probably deserves to be above Favre. But if you're talking best single season, Favre's 2009 is a solid contender with Pep's 2004 for best all time. 

But I wouldn't put Rashad or White over JJ. JJ's just that good. Think about it this way: if you had to win one game and you could choose any of the those three in their prime to pair with Moss and Carter, I think you're far more likely to win that game with JJ. 

Is it possible that any other "All time team" could be as good as ours?I don't think so.

@"FLVike" said:

Is it possible that any other "All time team" could be as good as ours?I don't think so.