4,000 yard passers

They also had 18 head coaches in that time period, 1 every 3 years.  The Vikings had 8 in that time period.  Not exactly an environment conducive to developing QBs.

Hey, many of us lived through this shit.

Many choose to forget

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Minnesota_Vikings_starting_quarterbacks

@"medaille" said: They also had 18 head coaches in that time period, 1 every 3 years.  The Vikings had 8 in that time period.  Not exactly an environment conducive to developing QBs.

Four of those coaches were Bill Parcells, Rex Ryan, Herm Edwards...and Bill Belichick for a day. 

Living and acting in fear of failure is a solid recipe for continuing to reside in the middle of the pack.

@"purplefaithful" said: Hey, many of us lived through this shit.

Many choose to forget

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Minnesota_Vikings_starting_quarterbacks

Not many team's can claim a trio like  Spergon Wynn, Brooks Bollinger and Sean Mannion.  Although Mannion has played for the Bears so there is another possible barrel bottom that could be defined.  Interesting that a barrel, by definition, has an equal diameter top and bottom, for what its worth.

@"pattersaur" said: Living and acting in fear of failure is a solid recipe for continuing to reside in the middle of the pack.

Who's doing that? 

@"MaroonBells" said:

You think finding a QB in the draft is easy?

Joe Namath became the first NFL player to throw for 4000 yards, doing so with 4007 in 1967. The Jets haven't had a 4000 yard passer since, despite drafting 28 QBs over 56 years, 6 drafted in the 1st round, 4 drafted in the top 6. 

The Vikings have had 8. Culpepper once, Favre once, Moon Twice, Cousins four times.  And only one of those was drafted by the team. 

and yet we think we are going to draft a replacement that will be better than Cousins

@"Vanguard83" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

You think finding a QB in the draft is easy?

Joe Namath became the first NFL player to throw for 4000 yards, doing so with 4007 in 1967. The Jets haven't had a 4000 yard passer since, despite drafting 28 QBs over 56 years, 6 drafted in the 1st round, 4 drafted in the top 6. 

The Vikings have had 8. Culpepper once, Favre once, Moon Twice, Cousins four times.  And only one of those was drafted by the team. 

and yet we think we are going to draft a replacement that will be better than Cousins

How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

i dont think many are against taking a swing @ QBOTF this draft -- IF there is a guy that they think has that potential. 

I just dont want to trade away KC until I know we got someone worthy in the wings.

I've been a fan too long and seen too many Ponders, Bollingers, Bradfords and Freemans over the years to want to revert to that insanity. 

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

Here is video of every INT Kirk threw last year

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line. 

So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league. 

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line. 

So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league. 

That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line. 

So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league. 

That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season. 

Only among people who don't know any better. Why should we care what stupid people think? 

I shouldn't have to say this, but everything must be taken into context. Last year, Cousins broke an NFL record for come-from-behind victories. His game-winning drives ranked 3rd in the NFL, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. Over the last 5 seasons, no QB in the NFL has more 4th quarter TDs than Cousins. And it's not really that close. And even if you limit the TDs to margin within 1 score, Cousins finishes on top. IOW, not garbage time.

If you're going to knock him for 1 pass among 643, then do that for all of them. You'll see a lot of boneheaded passes by a lot of very good QBs, including the two above. And honestly, was that pass really that bad? He was getting intense pressure and he put the ball in play instead of taking the sack. 

Stats can be used to paint a hundred different pictures. But they also help illuminate the truth because, unlike people, numbers have no biases.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line. 

So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league. 

That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season. 

Only among people who don't know any better. Why should we care what stupid people think? 

I shouldn't have to say this, but everything must be taken into context. Last year, Cousins broke an NFL record for come-from-behind victories. His game-winning drives ranked 3rd in the NFL, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. Over the last 5 seasons, no QB in the NFL has more 4th quarter TDs than Cousins. And it's not really that close. And even if you limit the TDs to margin within 1 score, Cousins finishes on top. IOW, not garbage time.

If you're going to knock him for 1 pass among 643, then do that for all of them. You'll see a lot of boneheaded passes by a lot of very good QBs, including the two above. And honestly, was that pass really that bad? He was getting intense pressure and he put the ball in play instead of taking the sack. 

Stats can be used to paint a hundred different pictures. But they also help illuminate the truth because, unlike people, numbers have no biases.

You mean like NFL MVP voters? You outline all this amazing stuff he did last year, yet he didn't even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting where nine, that's right nine QB's received votes including Geno Smith and Tua. How does someone who had such an incredible season as you outlined not even finish in the top 15 in MVP voting or have his team not bend over backwards to retain him on an extension? The real answer is because for all the stats he puts up, Kirk Cousins is going to be Kirk Cousins at the end of the day. 

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line. 

So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league. 

That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season. 

@"wiviking" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: How many QBs have had a JJ, a 17 game season,  and pass friendly offense in a game that strongly favors the passing game more now than ever in he history of the game?  I'm not saying this as a knock on guys that have done it recently,  but the game has changed drastically in the favor of the QB the last couple years.  Almost 1/3 of the QBs in the league passed for over 4k yards the last 2 seasons.

As far as the Jets ineptitude,  well they aren't exactly the role model for how to run a franchise,  been plenty of WTFs from that crew over the last 50 years.

And let's not forget for all of the yards Kirk has thrown for and for all the good things, he still was tied last season for the second most INT's in the league (14, the leader had 15) and that check down on 4th and 8 in the playoffs with our season on the line was beyond awful. Now he's 35 and wants the team to belly up to the bar once again in the form of another short term, fully guaranteed contract where he calls the shots. We will be taking cap hits through 2027 on his money that's already been reshuffled in the latest version of "kicking the can down the road." Cousins is not irreplaceable, and my hope is the organization doesn't choose to continue to be held hostage by the contract demands of Cousins who we always seem to cave to because, well, "there's nobody better" we can acquire. It's time for this organization to take a swing at a QB 

KOC wanted Cousins to take more chances with the football. It resulted in some pretty dramatic comeback victories. It also resulted in more interceptions. We all expected that. What we didn't expect was just how good Cousins would become with the game on the line. 

So, no, the interception total is not an indication of decline. A new offense and a mandate to take more chances is going to increase that total. But his TD/INT ratio typically ranks among the best. The year before he had the 2nd best interception percentage in the league. 

That's one way to spin it, and the 4th and 8 check down just led into the national narrative that the guy is a choke artist who folds in big games. So he didn't end his season with people thinking "how good he was with the game on the line." Fair or not, that's the perception and the lasting image on his season. 

The 4th and 8 thing has gotten pretty old. Had he not thrown it and taken the sack, it would have been, why didn't he unload it to one of his playmakers and let them have a chance....