Needs to be said....

@"mgobluevikes" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: while I agree that he deserves a lot of recognition,  he was bailed on a lot of otherwise uncatchable balls by JJ.   If we want to talk about why the team is  where its at.... essentially the team MVP,  I have to vote for JJ.  of the 5 games where he was held for under 100 yards ( ok 98 since the cards game he only had 98)  the Vikings lost 4 of those 5 games.  ( I am also not counting the final bears game since they didnt let most the starters have a full game.)  Sure he cant throw the ball to himself,  but the circus catches and the range he showed this year,  not to mention the beatings he has taken on some of those poorly placed balls or balls that shouldnt have been thrown, makes JJ my team MVP. 

Kirk has played better in some ways this year,  worse in some ways,  his willingness to stand and deliver in the face of a pretty certain ass whooping is admirable,  and his leadership has certainly come to the surface under a coach willing to let kirk be the man.  I wouldnt give 2 shits for the kirko crap,  I honestly dont care if he is cut out of a target ad,  the next edition of GQ, or wears his baseball hat backwards,  all I care about is if he gets the job done,  and can we afford to make the team better around him to maybe, someday, win that fucking elusive SB.  He gets the job done, and I have beat the other matter to death so... Nice season to Mr, Cousins.

All this to say you just don't really like Kirk all that much, and keep propping up the false narrative that everyone around him are the "real" heroes, with Kirk constantly putting receivers in unreasonable danger. The so called "beatings" JJ has taken from those poorly placed balls or balls that shouldn't have been thrown, isn't backed up by anything other than you said so. 

Fact is, that 80-90% of this team's problems stems from the defensive side of the ball, i.e., bad scheme/play calling/coordinator,  personnel, etc. Compare that to the approximate 10-20% of our offensive problems, which come from inexperienced play calling, offensive line play/personnel, etc. In my estimation 10% is completely attributable to incompetent O-line play, with another 5-10% of inefficiency attributable to a new coaching staff and poor play calling, and somewhere in the margins, QB play that might have out and out cost us a win.

Maybe you can take another crack at a more backhanded compliment, or what QB metric unlocks your happy dance, but I think the real issue is that we just haven't drafted well enough overall and ignored the trenches, while gambling on a few iffy skill positions that have flamed out.
 

 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: while I agree that he deserves a lot of recognition,  he was bailed on a lot of otherwise uncatchable balls by JJ.   If we want to talk about why the team is  where its at.... essentially the team MVP,  I have to vote for JJ.  of the 5 games where he was held for under 100 yards ( ok 98 since the cards game he only had 98)  the Vikings lost 4 of those 5 games.  ( I am also not counting the final bears game since they didnt let most the starters have a full game.)  Sure he cant throw the ball to himself,  but the circus catches and the range he showed this year,  not to mention the beatings he has taken on some of those poorly placed balls or balls that shouldnt have been thrown, makes JJ my team MVP. 

Kirk has played better in some ways this year,  worse in some ways,  his willingness to stand and deliver in the face of a pretty certain ass whooping is admirable,  and his leadership has certainly come to the surface under a coach willing to let kirk be the man.  I wouldnt give 2 shits for the kirko crap,  I honestly dont care if he is cut out of a target ad,  the next edition of GQ, or wears his baseball hat backwards,  all I care about is if he gets the job done,  and can we afford to make the team better around him to maybe, someday, win that fucking elusive SB.  He gets the job done, and I have beat the other matter to death so... Nice season to Mr, Cousins.

All this to say you just don't really like Kirk all that much, and keep propping up the false narrative that everyone around him are the "real" heroes, with Kirk constantly putting receivers in unreasonable danger. The so called "beatings" JJ has taken from those poorly placed balls or balls that shouldn't have been thrown, isn't backed up by anything other than you said so. 

Fact is, that 80-90% of this team's problems stems from the defensive side of the ball, i.e., bad scheme/play calling/coordinator,  personnel, etc. Compare that to the approximate 10-20% of our offensive problems, which come from inexperienced play calling, offensive line play/personnel, etc. In my estimation 10% is completely attributable to incompetent O-line play, with another 5-10% of inefficiency attributable to a new coaching staff and poor play calling, and somewhere in the margins, QB play that might have out and out cost us a win.

Maybe you can take another crack at a more backhanded compliment, or what QB metric unlocks your happy dance, but I think the real issue is that we just haven't drafted well enough overall and ignored the trenches, while gambling on a few iffy skill positions that have flamed out.
 

 

80 to 90 is the defense?  In our 4 losses the O put up a combined 12.5 ppg average and that is on the D?

I have no problem with Kirk except I think he is overpaid and his bloated contract vs the return prevent the front office from building a better team around him.  At his price tag I expect more,  better mobility in and out of the would be a good start,  we have seen a little improvement there this year,  but he is still wanting in that dept.  He is an above average QB that can play very good IMO,  but I still think his play overall could be equalled from a cheaper QB,  maybe not his passing stats alone,  but overall performance from the position.  I have never said I dont like the guy,  hell as a Christian and an American what is not to like about Kirk Cousins the person?  If he was playing on a deal that allowed to team to comfortably build better around him I would be more accepting of his short comings on the field,  but when his contracts average as much of the cap as they do each term that hinders the rest of the roster and I expect more.  Same goes for about every other player that doesn't meet their pay.  If they want superstar money, I expect superstar results pretty consistently. 

The take: “Kirk Cousins can only win 1pm games!”

The plan: pic.twitter.com/7d9TBnDmi6

— Kyle Brandt (@KyleBrandt) January 13, 2023

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: while I agree that he deserves a lot of recognition,  he was bailed on a lot of otherwise uncatchable balls by JJ.   If we want to talk about why the team is  where its at.... essentially the team MVP,  I have to vote for JJ.  of the 5 games where he was held for under 100 yards ( ok 98 since the cards game he only had 98)  the Vikings lost 4 of those 5 games.  ( I am also not counting the final bears game since they didnt let most the starters have a full game.)  Sure he cant throw the ball to himself,  but the circus catches and the range he showed this year,  not to mention the beatings he has taken on some of those poorly placed balls or balls that shouldnt have been thrown, makes JJ my team MVP. 

Kirk has played better in some ways this year,  worse in some ways,  his willingness to stand and deliver in the face of a pretty certain ass whooping is admirable,  and his leadership has certainly come to the surface under a coach willing to let kirk be the man.  I wouldnt give 2 shits for the kirko crap,  I honestly dont care if he is cut out of a target ad,  the next edition of GQ, or wears his baseball hat backwards,  all I care about is if he gets the job done,  and can we afford to make the team better around him to maybe, someday, win that fucking elusive SB.  He gets the job done, and I have beat the other matter to death so... Nice season to Mr, Cousins.

All this to say you just don't really like Kirk all that much, and keep propping up the false narrative that everyone around him are the "real" heroes, with Kirk constantly putting receivers in unreasonable danger. The so called "beatings" JJ has taken from those poorly placed balls or balls that shouldn't have been thrown, isn't backed up by anything other than you said so. 

Fact is, that 80-90% of this team's problems stems from the defensive side of the ball, i.e., bad scheme/play calling/coordinator,  personnel, etc. Compare that to the approximate 10-20% of our offensive problems, which come from inexperienced play calling, offensive line play/personnel, etc. In my estimation 10% is completely attributable to incompetent O-line play, with another 5-10% of inefficiency attributable to a new coaching staff and poor play calling, and somewhere in the margins, QB play that might have out and out cost us a win.

Maybe you can take another crack at a more backhanded compliment, or what QB metric unlocks your happy dance, but I think the real issue is that we just haven't drafted well enough overall and ignored the trenches, while gambling on a few iffy skill positions that have flamed out.
 

 

80 to 90 is the defense?  In our 4 losses the O put up a combined 12.5 ppg average and that is on the D?

I have no problem with Kirk except I think he is overpaid and his bloated contract vs the return prevent the front office from building a better team around him.  At his price tag I expect more,  better mobility in and out of the would be a good start,  we have seen a little improvement there this year,  but he is still wanting in that dept.  He is an above average QB that can play very good IMO,  but I still think his play overall could be equalled from a cheaper QB,  maybe not his passing stats alone,  but overall performance from the position.  I have never said I dont like the guy,  hell as a Christian and an American what is not to like about Kirk Cousins the person?  If he was playing on a deal that allowed to team to comfortably build better around him I would be more accepting of his short comings on the field,  but when his contracts average as much of the cap as they do each term that hinders the rest of the roster and I expect more.  Same goes for about every other player that doesn't meet their pay.  If they want superstar money, I expect superstar results pretty consistently. 

If you're a starting QB in the NFL past your rookie contract, you're going to be paid a ridiculous amount of money. Right now, Cousins average per year ranks 10th in the NFL.  Less than Rodgers, Murray, Watson, Carr, Stafford and Wilson, all of whom he outplayed this season. 

Can you build a better roster without a top-paid QB? Probably, if you draft well. But good luck going anywhere if your "cheaper QB" just isn't very good. 

There's actually a pretty good case study here. Washington did exactly what you're advocating. Rather than pay their QB market value, they thought they could build a better roster by going cheap at the QB position. Since then, they've had 12 different starting QBs.

Second weigh in on this topic.

Florio has a video up on YouTube about how the Lions shouldn’t roll the dice and try and replace Jared Goff.

I find that weird, because he’s definitely not a Cousins fan and has thought in the past that the Vikings should just replace him.

Seems a lot of fans think that Cousins should just be replaced and it’s easy to get Cousins’ type of performance out of a rookie or a FA or a trade. 
I’d rather stick with the way Cousins is than roll the dice, blow it up, suffer through a new qb attempting to get it right, or a whole rebuilding project that might not work out.

@"Riphawkins" said: Second weigh in on this topic.

Florio has a video up on YouTube about how the Lions shouldn’t roll the dice and try and replace Jared Goff.

I find that weird, because he’s definitely not a Cousins fan and has thought in the past that the Vikings should just replace him.

Seems a lot of fans think that Cousins should just be replaced and it’s easy to get Cousins’ type of performance out of a rookie or a FA or a trade. 

I’d rather stick with the way Cousins is than roll the dice, blow it up, suffer through a new qb attempting to get it right, or a whole rebuilding project that might not work out.

As to finding the next QB, IMO they should be doing it while they have their QB.  If they hit and Cousins is still worth keeping, they can leverage a trade.  Right next to building the O-Line first, it should be the most well known concept for a GM, always be looking for your next QB of the future.

@"Riphawkins" said: Second weigh in on this topic.

Florio has a video up on YouTube about how the Lions shouldn’t roll the dice and try and replace Jared Goff.

I find that weird, because he’s definitely not a Cousins fan and has thought in the past that the Vikings should just replace him.

Seems a lot of fans think that Cousins should just be replaced and it’s easy to get Cousins’ type of performance out of a rookie or a FA or a trade. 

I’d rather stick with the way Cousins is than roll the dice, blow it up, suffer through a new qb attempting to get it right, or a whole rebuilding project that might not work out.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Riphawkins" said: Second weigh in on this topic.

Florio has a video up on YouTube about how the Lions shouldn’t roll the dice and try and replace Jared Goff.

I find that weird, because he’s definitely not a Cousins fan and has thought in the past that the Vikings should just replace him.

Seems a lot of fans think that Cousins should just be replaced and it’s easy to get Cousins’ type of performance out of a rookie or a FA or a trade. 

I’d rather stick with the way Cousins is than roll the dice, blow it up, suffer through a new qb attempting to get it right, or a whole rebuilding project that might not work out.

drafting a new QB and sticking with KC are not mutually exclusive of each other,  any new QB is going to come with a learning curve and having KC under contract will bridge that first learning year.  it would be foolish to trade KC away and then not have a mentor for a rookie,  or a rookie retread like wilson or some of the other inexperienced names thrown out recently.

@"Riphawkins" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Riphawkins" said: Second weigh in on this topic.

Florio has a video up on YouTube about how the Lions shouldn’t roll the dice and try and replace Jared Goff.

I find that weird, because he’s definitely not a Cousins fan and has thought in the past that the Vikings should just replace him.

Seems a lot of fans think that Cousins should just be replaced and it’s easy to get Cousins’ type of performance out of a rookie or a FA or a trade. 

I’d rather stick with the way Cousins is than roll the dice, blow it up, suffer through a new qb attempting to get it right, or a whole rebuilding project that might not work out.

drafting a new QB and sticking with KC are not mutually exclusive of each other,  any new QB is going to come with a learning curve and having KC under contract will bridge that first learning year.  it would be foolish to trade KC away and then not have a mentor for a rookie,  or a rookie retread like wilson or some of the other inexperienced names thrown out recently.

I agree they aren’t mutually exclusive. However finding a starter quality QB and training him to take the current starter’s place usually results in bad blood. Nobody wants to see their replacement drafted. Not that the Vikings shouldn’t try to find a replacement, because everyone is replaceable. 
But, my feeling is some want Cousins gone yesterday and his replacement should have been already found. I don’t think he’s easy to replace, which is why he keeps getting extended, which is why he was franchised twice in Washington. 
That’s why they’ve had the likes of Taylor Heinicke starting. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Riphawkins" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Riphawkins" said: Second weigh in on this topic.

Florio has a video up on YouTube about how the Lions shouldn’t roll the dice and try and replace Jared Goff.

I find that weird, because he’s definitely not a Cousins fan and has thought in the past that the Vikings should just replace him.

Seems a lot of fans think that Cousins should just be replaced and it’s easy to get Cousins’ type of performance out of a rookie or a FA or a trade. 

I’d rather stick with the way Cousins is than roll the dice, blow it up, suffer through a new qb attempting to get it right, or a whole rebuilding project that might not work out.

drafting a new QB and sticking with KC are not mutually exclusive of each other,  any new QB is going to come with a learning curve and having KC under contract will bridge that first learning year.  it would be foolish to trade KC away and then not have a mentor for a rookie,  or a rookie retread like wilson or some of the other inexperienced names thrown out recently.

I agree they aren’t mutually exclusive. However finding a starter quality QB and training him to take the current starter’s place usually results in bad blood. Nobody wants to see their replacement drafted. Not that the Vikings shouldn’t try to find a replacement, because everyone is replaceable. 
But, my feeling is some want Cousins gone yesterday and his replacement should have been already found. I don’t think he’s easy to replace, which is why he keeps getting extended, which is why he was franchised twice in Washington. 
That’s why they’ve had the likes of Taylor Heinicke starting. 

but with that mentality the Chiefs would have rolled with Alex Smith and would have missed out on Pat Mahomes,  the patriots would have used whats his name and not wasted a 6th on Brady,  and the puke were pretty well set with Favre when they nabbed Rogers,  wasnt Montana still rolling at a high level when they grabbed Steve Young?  sure these are extremes and you are much more likely to grab a couple duds before you find your next ride or die QB,  but you know with certainty that you are going to need a replacement for KC at some point in the next few years and the longer you wait to start taking that shot, the more desperate you will become and then you are back to where we were 5 years ago and that is overpaying for a veteran and never getting that window of top tier QB play on a rookie deal that seems to be a pretty good way to build a contender these days.

It's time for Kirk Cousins' final exam: the NFL playoffsIn Kevin O'Connell's first season, Cousins said he has more responsibility in the offense than in any of his first 10 years in the league. Can the quarterback direct the Vikings to playoff success?O'Connell made Cousins one of his first phone calls after he became the Vikings coach in February, letting the quarterback know how much the offense would demand of him and how strongly he believed Cousins could handle it. 

While Cousins threw more interceptions (14) and had a lower quarterback rating (92.5) than in any of his eight seasons as a full-time starter, he threw for the second-most yards of his career, led a league-high eight game-winning drives and reached his fourth Pro Bowl. The Vikings open the playoffs Sunday against the Giants after winning their first NFC North title with Cousins at quarterback.

How often does Cousins change something from O'Connell's initial play call by the time the ball is snapped? "I would probably say close to 70 percent," O'Connell said.

"It could be a run to a run, a run to a pass, changing directions. But yeah, it's a lot," he added. "You watch the higher-level offenses, and you just hear it — 'Can! Can! Kill! Kill!' — just all the ways you try to have a plan for the best possible play versus the look you get."
Cousins speaks warmly of how O'Connell has backed him as the team's leader, while O'Connell praises the quarterback's careful attention to his role as an on-field lieutenant. Both are fathers in their mid-30s whose families are close. They meet for two hours the day before each Vikings game to go through O'Connell's call sheet, but their game-plan discussions often start earlier in the week, over 10 p.m. texts once their kids are asleep.
"We've scored on plays this year that either Kirk suggested, or a big third-down conversion he had ultimate ownership of," O'Connell said. "I think the big thing for him this year is, his ownership has just grown by leaps and bounds, with his comfort and what we're asking of him."
https://www.startribune.com/kirk-cousins-minnesota-vikings-nfl-playoffs-kevin-oconnell-new-york-giants/600243432/

O'Connell frequently names Cousins as the chief reason for the Vikings' success, inviting him to break down the team's huddle after victories. One of the coach's other favorite methods of backing the quarterback is putting teammates on the spot by trading places.

"Sometimes, it's a simple thing, like at a walkthrough or a practice, calling a play into him and then looking over at J.J. or Dalvin , saying, 'Hey, call that one,' " O'Connell said. "They're looking at me like, 'Absolutely not.' "
Other times, O'Connell will call up a clip of Cousins standing in the pocket and taking a hit while delivering a critical third-down strike. "I want everybody on our team and our coaching staff to know that — maybe not the granular details of it, but just the circumstance," O'Connell said. "The respect he's garnered from his teammates, if I can help in any way make that a reality and make it what it should be, it's my job as the head coach."
Articulating to teammates the unique pressures of his job, Cousins said, is probably the most meaningful way O'Connell has empowered him. The clips O'Connell picks are also part of his gentle nudge for Cousins to play more boldly; the balls Cousins fires into tight windows while bracing for contact have won him a legion of supporters in the locker room.
Jefferson blasted Cousins' critics on Dec. 29, posting on Twitter that "all of the Kirk criticism has to stop!!" and suggesting those who mock the quarterback do so because they "hate his dad swag." The tweet came five days after the Vikings' victory over the Giants on Dec. 24, when Cousins made a third-down throw to Jefferson with 1:14 to go that showcased all of his talents to right tackle Brian O'Neill.
"I hope everybody else is starting to see it," O'Neill said. "The one where he checked to a different protection: four seconds left , called the right combination, got the ball off real quick, stood in there and delivered a dart. I mean, that's big-time.

https://www.startribune.com/kirk-cousins-minnesota-vikings-nfl-playoffs-kevin-oconnell-new-york-giants/600243432/

Validation strong enough to squelch Cousins' critics might not arrive without consistent playoff success, which could also realize his hopes of finishing his career in Minnesota with O'Connell. 
To make a run through the NFC playoffs, where Cousins is 1-3 in his career, the Vikings will have to solve a field that includes four teams among the NFL's best in quarterback pressure rate, with O'Neill out for the season and center Garrett Bradbury returning from a back injury.
They will also have to deal with what O'Connell calls "the JJ effect," where teams are so preoccupied with slowing down Jefferson that they abandon coverage tendencies. O'Connell said the Vikings have gone into multiple games against opponents that play single-safety coverage 60-70% of the time, only to see them spend almost the entire day with two safeties deep and one shaded toward Jefferson.
Cousins and O'Connell discuss how to leverage opponents' attention on Jefferson, and ways to spring the All-Pro receiver, knowing they might have to recreate their plans.
"His willingness to sometimes allow me to create something, and his comfort level and trust, knowing what we're trying to do, has been huge," O'Connell said.
Jefferson said some of his biggest catches this season came when Cousins saw a favorable matchup and checked him to a vertical route. Hockenson said the complexity of the Vikings offense, and Cousins' ability to manipulate all of it at the line of scrimmage, is what keeps them from running out of answers when defenses focus on Jefferson.
"It doesn't just lock you into one single play call," said Hockenson, who arrived from the Lions in Week 9 and became one of the Vikings' franchise-record four receivers with at least 60 catches this season. "Now, you have a full-field concept that's really good against the whole thing. It puts everybody eligible to receive the ball at all times in this offense, which is huge."
All the relationship-building between O'Connell and Cousins, all the talk of empowerment, is mostly to buttress a connection that has to hold up in those 40 seconds between plays.
Most of the world will never hear their exchanges. Unless, perhaps, the production machine grabs one for a highlight package after an unforgettable playoff moment.
"Even when the play is not changing, his thought process might change when the ball hits his hands. So it's a lot," O'Connell said. "I do think it ultimately is the best way to function if your quarterback can handle it. And he's proven time and time again that he can."
https://www.startribune.com/kirk-cousins-minnesota-vikings-nfl-playoffs-kevin-oconnell-new-york-giants/600243432/

A part of Viking Nation will only appreciate Kirko Chainz in retrospect. Hindsight and the rearview mirror. I like the guy and as I get older, I realize these players are really just young men. They could easily be our sons. They make mistakes, fail, succeed, etc. But Cousins is really the kind of dude that should be galvanizing the fanbase, not polarizing it. The reason the players love him is because he's genuine. What you see, is what you get. And he's exceedingly complimentary to others and not himself. 

Not sure what will happen later today, but I know Kirk will be prepared and give his best. He'll take a big shot to complete a pass. He's an Ironman. He isn't shy about his morals and beliefs, regardless how you feel about that. He's just really easy to root for at the bare minimum. 

Another thing that needs to be said is, Kirk Chainz is a tough MF’er. How many times can he get punched in the face and keep bouncing back up?