This is nothing against Cousins, but.....

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: I think it's just about who's available when we draft. I'm not opposed to drafting a QB, but I think we should probably extend Cousins again, let him grow in this new offense for a couple years. I think that gives us our best chance for a championship. Ideally, we have the right young QB developing in the pipeline over that time. 

can the team afford to keep extending cousins?  we are currently carrying cap hits into 2 future years to make his ballooning salary work without having to take to many hits at other positions.  With JJ and TJ both needing new deals,  and the team already over the projected cap for 23,  how much more can the team afford to kick down the road before they have to start letting quality younger players walk?  yes we will likely get some relief from Harry, AT, Kendricks, and a few others,  but there are already other needs to fill with cap space to keep this team competitive.  If KC wants to keep playing for the Vikings IMO he needs to play for a more team friendly deal,  or its time for the team to move on after 23.  IMO the only way they rework his deal after this season is if he agrees to future years at current money so that his % of the cap drops in years he is actually active for.  No more cap being spread into years not under contract IMO.

We can for a while. I would expect an extension to drop his cap number. I would also expect JJ's first year or two of his contract to have a manageable cap number. So they can coexist for a couple of years, as we presumably compete for a championship. 

But something will have to give 2 or 3 years down the road. Hopefully there's a championship in there somewhere. Other places to look would be Harry, Cook, Thielen...

the only way we can afford him,  and his cap # be lower, ( and the means without long term cap implications by moving his guaranteed money into future non playing years)  is if he is willing to play for less,  which to date hasnt really happened.  they've done cap gymnastics to make it look good for a season here or there,  but his % of available cap (per season played)  has stayed at or near the top of the market since he came to MN.

We are having a good season,  but I dont consider this roster "championship caliber"  I think the ass kickings we have received by the iggles and the cowboys tend to out shine the record and OT win over the bills.   lots and lots of work to do on D, as well as the O,  and we are likely to create more holes or question marks this offseason by issuing those veteran ultimatums to the guys that we all list as places to find more caps space by re-working existing deals.  IMO Kirk himself is one that should be taking a pay cut to stay with the team, if he refuses then you know right there that you need a different QB for the future so why continue down a road you've been on with only marginal success?  rip that bandaid off,  and be ready to move on after 23.

When I say championship caliber I just mean a team that is in the hunt, a team you don't tear down, but keep adding pieces to. And we're certainly that, and will continue to be for a few years. As far as the blowouts go, remember that the last two Super Bowl winners were blown out in similar fashion earlier in the year. 

Regarding your first paragraph, Cousins has and will continue to get market value. And KAM will keep paying it, because he has to. We will move on from Cousins only when we have a better option. And that's not likely to happen any time soon. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: I think it's just about who's available when we draft. I'm not opposed to drafting a QB, but I think we should probably extend Cousins again, let him grow in this new offense for a couple years. I think that gives us our best chance for a championship. Ideally, we have the right young QB developing in the pipeline over that time. 

can the team afford to keep extending cousins?  we are currently carrying cap hits into 2 future years to make his ballooning salary work without having to take to many hits at other positions.  With JJ and TJ both needing new deals,  and the team already over the projected cap for 23,  how much more can the team afford to kick down the road before they have to start letting quality younger players walk?  yes we will likely get some relief from Harry, AT, Kendricks, and a few others,  but there are already other needs to fill with cap space to keep this team competitive.  If KC wants to keep playing for the Vikings IMO he needs to play for a more team friendly deal,  or its time for the team to move on after 23.  IMO the only way they rework his deal after this season is if he agrees to future years at current money so that his % of the cap drops in years he is actually active for.  No more cap being spread into years not under contract IMO.

We can for a while. I would expect an extension to drop his cap number. I would also expect JJ's first year or two of his contract to have a manageable cap number. So they can coexist for a couple of years, as we presumably compete for a championship. 

But something will have to give 2 or 3 years down the road. Hopefully there's a championship in there somewhere. Other places to look would be Harry, Cook, Thielen...

the only way we can afford him,  and his cap # be lower, ( and the means without long term cap implications by moving his guaranteed money into future non playing years)  is if he is willing to play for less,  which to date hasnt really happened.  they've done cap gymnastics to make it look good for a season here or there,  but his % of available cap (per season played)  has stayed at or near the top of the market since he came to MN.

We are having a good season,  but I dont consider this roster "championship caliber"  I think the ass kickings we have received by the iggles and the cowboys tend to out shine the record and OT win over the bills.   lots and lots of work to do on D, as well as the O,  and we are likely to create more holes or question marks this offseason by issuing those veteran ultimatums to the guys that we all list as places to find more caps space by re-working existing deals.  IMO Kirk himself is one that should be taking a pay cut to stay with the team, if he refuses then you know right there that you need a different QB for the future so why continue down a road you've been on with only marginal success?  rip that bandaid off,  and be ready to move on after 23.

When I say championship caliber I just mean a team that is in the hunt, a team you don't tear down, but keep adding pieces to. And we're certainly that, and will continue to be for a few years. As far as the blowouts go, remember that the last two Super Bowl winners were blown out in similar fashion earlier in the year. 

Regarding your first paragraph, Cousins has and will continue to get market value. And KAM will keep paying it, because he has to. We will move on from Cousins only when we have a better option. And that's not likely to happen any time soon. 

which is me saying you pay it this year and then hope you hit in the draft with somebody to replace him after 23,  if you dont then you worry about it after that,  but I dont see the need to make him an offseason contract priority,  the focus needs to be on his replacement and not his contract.

@"JR44" said: With QB being by far the most important position on the field, I am always a fan of drafting a QB unless you have a young elite QB like Mahomes, Allen or Herbert.  I was hoping the new regime would get a new QB, but I think Cousins has done a great job this year, in my opinion maybe not his best statistical year since he has been here, but his best year by far, because he is getting it done when we need it, so glad he is back.  He will be 35 next year, so it is a really tough call, if we extend him, I think we can be more lax and see if someone falls, but if not, we definitely need to be aggressive in what seems to be a rich QB draft.  

With our defense trending in the wrong direction, it's going to be tough to ignore those positions of extreme immediate need for the QB of the future, especially with diminished draft stock.

Kwesi just needs to draft the next Mahomes. Easy right? 

@"1VikesFan" said: Kwesi just needs to draft the next Mahomes. Easy right? 

@"1VikesFan" said: Kwesi just needs to draft the next Mahomes. Easy right? 

@"1VikesFan" said: Kwesi just needs to draft the next Mahomes. Easy right? 

@"1VikesFan" said: Kwesi just needs to draft the next Mahomes. Easy right? 

@"mgobluevikes" said: With our defense trending in the wrong direction, it's going to be tough to ignore those positions of extreme immediate need for the QB of the future, especially with diminished draft stock.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said: With our defense trending in the wrong direction, it's going to be tough to ignore those positions of extreme immediate need for the QB of the future, especially with diminished draft stock.

Agree. It will be a tough decision. And a lot depends on how we finish the year. If Cousins continues to grow in this offense and the Vikings have some success in the playoffs, there is little chance they will draft a non-contributing QB late in the 1st round over a player who can help us right away. 

I like that Chiefs analogy Minny...

KC had already had a pro-bowler at QB and had the nads to trade him and boldly move up...

That took guts, smarts and some lady luck too

@"minny65" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said: With our defense trending in the wrong direction, it's going to be tough to ignore those positions of extreme immediate need for the QB of the future, especially with diminished draft stock.

Agree. It will be a tough decision. And a lot depends on how we finish the year. If Cousins continues to grow in this offense and the Vikings have some success in the playoffs, there is little chance they will draft a non-contributing QB late in the 1st round over a player who can help us right away. 

Kirk has us hostage at this point.  He is good enough to pay Top 10 QB money (I don't think Top 5 money) and we have already been kicking the can down the road with huge Dead Cap hits forthcoming if we even try to move on from him.  His play and salary (hand-in-hand) has us in QB purgatory IMO.  We don't seriously look at high end QB's in the draft because Kirk has us by the nads.  As you know, I don't think Kirk has it to win us an extended playoff run or SB so this is my view of our current situation and has been the last year+.  I was in the other camp before two seasons ago thinking Kirk could get us there with a complete team surround.  Now I really don't think he can. 

Kirk crippled Spelly with the above tease....great stats/high salary and kick the can down the road.  Spelly did not seriously look at any of the first round QB's in years...IMO.  
Looks like Kirk will have the same effect on Kwesi because the can has been kicked down to him now.

The two QB's mentioned in jest above - Mahomes and Allen were drafted by teams who were also in limbo like the Chiefs.  Playoff team with Alex Smith (coming off a Pro Bowl) and the Chiefs brass has the nads to aggressively move up for their franchise QB.  The Bills built a great defense and then had the guts to move up for Allen.

Kirk and his kick-the-can-contract continues to cripple this team if you are in the thought process I am in which is the minority on here. Kwesi would shock the heck out of me if he moved up in the first to get a guy (Levi etc) he had conviction about.  We have a veteran front office and Kwesi would have some breathing room to seize the moment but I doubt that will happen.

In the meantime, I am rooting against my gut feeling on Kirk and hoping he can prove me wrong.  I am not saying SB or bust for Kirk either but I am saying two very good playoff games from him in a row would put my fear to rest on Kirko.

I am really enjoying this season and watching the new regime work some magic.  I think the Jets are probably our strongest remaining game so I want to see how we react to a nice win vs NE.

We cant discount durability though. Over the decades, we had few seasons where our starting quarterback played every game. We trotted out some real duds. Webb, Freeman, Wynn...

@"wiviking" said: We cant discount durability though. Over the decades, we had few seasons where our starting quarterback played every game. We trotted out some real duds. Webb, Freeman, Wynn...

Hey, if the decisions were easy, we'd all be GMs. 

The Lions showed us how to trade up from 32 to 12 so in the next draft we should trade up from 32 to 12 and take our next QB. Are you with me?

Kirk is Kirk. I agree the Vikings should be aggressively looking for a QB in this upcoming draft.
The one argument I'd push back on is when people say, "our record isn't bad enough to get a good QB". That's just not the case. Sure, getting Lawrence or Burrow or whoever is great at the top of the draft but the Vikings have been on the board or within striking distance of plenty of decent (not elite) QBs in recent years.
Off the top of my head- Hurts, Fields went right before us, Lamar Jackson a few years ago, Kenny Pickett, Geno Smith, Mac Jones is okay, Jordan Love if he turns out. Heck, Taylor Heineke was on our roster.

Yes there are plenty of busts I didn't name who we passed on too but that's true at any position. With the exception of Fields these are all guys who were on the clock when we picked. Kirk is better than most of them and basically on par with the best few, but he's been a lot more expensive.
My main point is to say that the Vikings can keep Kirk around for another year or two but even if we draft late in the first round, we'll probably be within reasonable striking-distance of a decent QB. The trick is finding the right guy and pulling the trigger-- something this franchise has been reticent to do for the most part.

@"FLVike" said: The Lions showed us how to trade up from 32 to 12 so in the next draft we should trade up from 32 to 12 and take our next QB. Are you with me?

Why do we have to move up for a QB?  We just need to be willing to take one when he's there.   There are plenty of late first rounders and even later round QBs that do just fine,  and honestly a QB on a rookie deal frees up a shitload of cap space to improve many positions on the roster to allow a team to overcome sub Kirk level play.... and not to mention, what we lose in arm talent could be replaced soemwhat with awareness and mobility so its not like you'd have to consider it a major step backwards to the roster to move on from kirk IMO.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FLVike" said: The Lions showed us how to trade up from 32 to 12 so in the next draft we should trade up from 32 to 12 and take our next QB. Are you with me?

If'n the right guy is there...and if'n we can find a sucker like the Lions did.