IF this roster can't beat last years .500 record...

God I hope not.  This organization hasn't had much stability since Dennis Green was here and we could really use some.  Plus I think Zimmer is a coach we can build around long-term.

We really need to get the O-line fixed though, it's been a complete shit show during Zimmer's entire tenure here.

A losing season is certainly going to put the whole front office in the hot seat, as it should.

I really hope that doesn't happen though.

This is a playoff roster. If the team doesn't win more than 8 games, then Mike Zimmer is on the hot seat. Front Office not as easy to blame. Any objective evaluation of the talent collected on this team will tell you that ain't the problem. 

I'm holding out hope that our preseason was just Mike Zimmer trying to see how the team would respond to surprises, changes, etc. The answer is a resounding "not very well." OK, asked and answered, now it's time to get back to preparing for opponents. 

I just don’t think Zimmer or Spielman
are really on the hot seat due to mediocre performances.  I think we can all feel that we are on the
cusp of doing good things.  We’re way
closer than at any time in the Frazier era. 
I think we would have to have some sort of melt down, where Zimmer lost
the team.  Assuming that our team, if
similar to last year, where we were good in a lot of aspects of the game, but
catastrophic in one or a few, I think we would likely see the jettisoning of
guys like Sparano (for the OLine) or whoever the individual underperforming
coach was.

I think the most likely candidate for getting let go due to
mediocre team performance is Bradford. 
You’ve got a guy who’s pretty much his equal, and should be healthy
sometime during the season, who’s got the label of a winner.  You can only keep one of them anyway, and it’s
an easy change to make.

I could see Zimmer and Spielman on the hotseat going into
2018, and possibly being replaced in 2019 after two mediocre seasons.

That said, I think people are dramatically overstating the
issues on the team.  Once again, Zimmer
will have a top 10 defense.  Our not great
offense can only get better.  Even though
we looked sloppy this preseason and possibly into the regular season, one of
the hallmarks of Zimmer’s teams is being disciplined.  He will have those issues corrected not too
long into the season.

@"medaille" said: That said, I think people are dramatically overstating the issues on the team.  Once again, Zimmer will have a top 10 defense.  Our not great offense can only get better.  Even though we looked sloppy this preseason and possibly into the regular season, one of the hallmarks of Zimmer’s teams is being disciplined.  He will have those issues corrected not too long into the season.

Brees and the rest of The Saints offense is not an easy draw game #1. At least it's here and at least it's strength vs strength team wise. 

Big test, should be a hell of a game - MNF to boot! 

Sam has never won 8 games-I'm not sure how hard it is to be that 'unlucky' if you are an 'uber talent' top draft pick franchise QB type.  It's not all on him but there is enough talent to win with, barring major injuries.  The OL may not be loaded with "top" talent but it has lots of NFL starts in 3-4 key veteran spots, guys that have started and been functional at least in Reiff, Boone, Berger, and Remmers plus they added a highly regarded top draft pick to the mix and Easton as enough start that he could be called functional also at a very minimum he hasn't been a liability when he has started.  The WR corps is the best it's been since Moss/Burleson and Cook looks like a legit complete RB with good backups.  Sam is playing for his career this year-if they don't win he will join the ranks of journeymen/bridge/backup vet QB's.

@"medaille" said: I just don’t think Zimmer or Spielman are really on the hot seat due to mediocre performances.  I think we can all feel that we are on the cusp of doing good things.  We’re way closer than at any time in the Frazier era.  I think we would have to have some sort of melt down, where Zimmer lost the team.  Assuming that our team, if similar to last year, where we were good in a lot of aspects of the game, but catastrophic in one or a few, I think we would likely see the jettisoning of guys like Sparano (for the OLine) or whoever the individual underperforming coach was.

I think the most likely candidate for getting let go due to
mediocre team performance is Bradford. 
You’ve got a guy who’s pretty much his equal, and should be healthy
sometime during the season, who’s got the label of a winner.  You can only keep one of them anyway, and it’s
an easy change to make.

I could see Zimmer and Spielman on the hotseat going into
2018, and possibly being replaced in 2019 after two mediocre seasons.

That said, I think people are dramatically overstating the
issues on the team.  Once again, Zimmer
will have a top 10 defense.  Our not great
offense can only get better.  Even though
we looked sloppy this preseason and possibly into the regular season, one of
the hallmarks of Zimmer’s teams is being disciplined.  He will have those issues corrected not too
long into the season.

He's playing for a long-term extension and has his best surround since he came into the league. 

That said, the only way he's on the "hot-seat" is if he plays like crap.

IF the TEAM underperforms and is not racked by injuries? Then I refer back to my finger pointing at the staff and not a given personnel group. 

I understand why Sam is seeing ghosts, but in order to get better, he has to get beyond that. And in order for the offense to get better, the OL has to improve. They don't have to be outstanding if they can offer stability, that would help. I still am not totally sure about what Shurmur is planning for this offense. I hope that it's that he doesn't want to reveal his hand. But there has to be more. The defense needs to clean things up too. Still concerned about the run defense and they seem to be playing far off in the passing game, the middle is left open. Greenway and Munnerlyn are missed.

@"medaille" said: I just don’t think Zimmer or Spielman are really on the hot seat due to mediocre performances.  I think we can all feel that we are on the cusp of doing good things.  We’re way closer than at any time in the Frazier era.  I think we would have to have some sort of melt down, where Zimmer lost the team.  Assuming that our team, if similar to last year, where we were good in a lot of aspects of the game, but catastrophic in one or a few, I think we would likely see the jettisoning of guys like Sparano (for the OLine) or whoever the individual underperforming coach was.

I think the most likely candidate for getting let go due to
mediocre team performance is Bradford. 
You’ve got a guy who’s pretty much his equal, and should be healthy
sometime during the season, who’s got the label of a winner.  You can only keep one of them anyway, and it’s
an easy change to make.

I could see Zimmer and Spielman on the hotseat going into
2018, and possibly being replaced in 2019 after two mediocre seasons.

That said, I think people are dramatically overstating the
issues on the team.  Once again, Zimmer
will have a top 10 defense.  Our not great
offense can only get better.  Even though
we looked sloppy this preseason and possibly into the regular season, one of
the hallmarks of Zimmer’s teams is being disciplined.  He will have those issues corrected not too
long into the season.

You mention a "melt down, where Zimmer lost the team". I agree - but IMO, we were dangerously close to that in 2017. You might define "losing the team" differently and feel it did not apply, but last season, the team was losing to those with less talent, inexplicably underperforming on defense, and in some games like Indianapolis, seemingly disinterested. "Losing a team" is sometimes defined as those rare situations where players openly rebel or disregard their coach publicly, but I think it can also mean the coach has lost the ability to motivate or get consistent performance out of the players.

I do agree that jumping back on the new-coach-merry-go-round every 4 years is no way to run a franchise. Butif the current coach turns out to be the wrong guy, how long do you stick with him in the name of stability?

This looks like a .500 team to me, very much so.   Zimmer is not up to the job of HC, he's a good DC and that's his ceiling, imho.

@"comet52" said: This looks like a .500 team to me, very much so.   Zimmer is not up to the job of HC, he's a good DC and that's his ceiling, imho.

Zimmer has much more to prove than McCarthy, so I am not putting them on the same pedestal and I do think this is an important year for Zimmer. He's no spring chicken either. 

I am hoping for another 11/5 myself. Call me crazy.  

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"comet52" said: This looks like a .500 team to me, very much so.   Zimmer is not up to the job of HC, he's a good DC and that's his ceiling, imho.

And McCarthy is a good OC but hired competency in Capers for the D. So that model is not egregious or wrong. Good managers surround themselves with good staff. 

Zimmer has much more to prove than McCarthy, so I am not putting them on the same pedestal and I do think this is an important year for Zimmer. He's no spring chicken either. 

I am hoping for another 11/5 myself. Call me crazy.  

@"Jor-El" said:

@"medaille" said: I just don’t think Zimmer or Spielman are really on the hot seat due to mediocre performances.  I think we can all feel that we are on the cusp of doing good things.  We’re way closer than at any time in the Frazier era.  I think we would have to have some sort of melt down, where Zimmer lost the team.  Assuming that our team, if similar to last year, where we were good in a lot of aspects of the game, but catastrophic in one or a few, I think we would likely see the jettisoning of guys like Sparano (for the OLine) or whoever the individual underperforming coach was.

I think the most likely candidate for getting let go due to
mediocre team performance is Bradford. 
You’ve got a guy who’s pretty much his equal, and should be healthy
sometime during the season, who’s got the label of a winner.  You can only keep one of them anyway, and it’s
an easy change to make.

I could see Zimmer and Spielman on the hotseat going into
2018, and possibly being replaced in 2019 after two mediocre seasons.

That said, I think people are dramatically overstating the
issues on the team.  Once again, Zimmer
will have a top 10 defense.  Our not great
offense can only get better.  Even though
we looked sloppy this preseason and possibly into the regular season, one of
the hallmarks of Zimmer’s teams is being disciplined.  He will have those issues corrected not too
long into the season.

By 2019, that would be 3 mediocre seasons in a row, wouldn't it? He would not be the coach in 2019 if that's the case.

You mention a "melt down, where Zimmer lost the team". I agree - but IMO, we were dangerously close to that in 2017. You might define "losing the team" differently and feel it did not apply, but last season, the team was losing to those with less talent, inexplicably underperforming on defense, and in some games like Indianapolis, seemingly disinterested. "Losing a team" is sometimes defined as those rare situations where players openly rebel or disregard their coach publicly, but I think it can also mean the coach has lost the ability to motivate or get consistent performance out of the players.

I do agree that jumping back on the new-coach-merry-go-round every 4 years is no way to run a franchise. Butif the current coach turns out to be the wrong guy, how long do you stick with him in the name of stability?

@"medaille" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"medaille" said: I just don’t think Zimmer or Spielman are really on the hot seat due to mediocre performances.  I think we can all feel that we are on the cusp of doing good things.  We’re way closer than at any time in the Frazier era.  I think we would have to have some sort of melt down, where Zimmer lost the team.  Assuming that our team, if similar to last year, where we were good in a lot of aspects of the game, but catastrophic in one or a few, I think we would likely see the jettisoning of guys like Sparano (for the OLine) or whoever the individual underperforming coach was.

I think the most likely candidate for getting let go due to
mediocre team performance is Bradford. 
You’ve got a guy who’s pretty much his equal, and should be healthy
sometime during the season, who’s got the label of a winner.  You can only keep one of them anyway, and it’s
an easy change to make.

I could see Zimmer and Spielman on the hotseat going into
2018, and possibly being replaced in 2019 after two mediocre seasons.

That said, I think people are dramatically overstating the
issues on the team.  Once again, Zimmer
will have a top 10 defense.  Our not great
offense can only get better.  Even though
we looked sloppy this preseason and possibly into the regular season, one of
the hallmarks of Zimmer’s teams is being disciplined.  He will have those issues corrected not too
long into the season.

By 2019, that would be 3 mediocre seasons in a row, wouldn't it? He would not be the coach in 2019 if that's the case.

You mention a "melt down, where Zimmer lost the team". I agree - but IMO, we were dangerously close to that in 2017. You might define "losing the team" differently and feel it did not apply, but last season, the team was losing to those with less talent, inexplicably underperforming on defense, and in some games like Indianapolis, seemingly disinterested. "Losing a team" is sometimes defined as those rare situations where players openly rebel or disregard their coach publicly, but I think it can also mean the coach has lost the ability to motivate or get consistent performance out of the players.

I do agree that jumping back on the new-coach-merry-go-round every 4 years is no way to run a franchise. Butif the current coach turns out to be the wrong guy, how long do you stick with him in the name of stability?

Last year the team had one catastrophic failure.  The OLine.  And it tanked our whole season.  There were other minor issues, but almost all teams have minor issues.  I struggle to see how a defense that wasn't motivated or getting consistent performance out of it's players would be a top 3 defense.

If you got the wrong guy, you need to cut him quickly and move on, but the evidence in my mind points to us being closer to consistently good, then consistently mediocre or worse.

Why would any sane Viking fan EXPECT anything OTHER than a .500 season?!! Seriously. 

3 Head Coaches, 5(?) OC's, 5 (?) DC's, 100's of players. ....and  ONE VP of Player Personel/GM the past 11 seasons. Hmm...who's the common denominator during this extended period of mediocrity? Not to mention this VP/GM was/is in charge of ALL SCOUTING, both Pro and College, ysince 2006.

I do have to admit that Ricky and Sammy are a perfect match. Neither one has anything on their ACTUAL records that they can field/lead teams that WIN consistently, but both do JUST ENOUGH to avoid being BAD. 

I know "Embrace the Suck" was a wonderful slogan for Vikings fans a few years ago, but I propose something with a little more staying power....."Minnesota Mediocrity".

Apparently this is sufficient for Viking's fans.....as long as you're not the WORST, everything is beautiful! Wait 'til next year, or the year after that, or the year after that, or the year after that, etc.

I am hoping for this team to pleasantly surprise me this year, but I'm going to need to SEE results before I buy into anymore BS emanating from Winter Park and their paid cheerleaders on this and other fan sites.

JUST FUCKING WIN!!! 

To quote Zimmer himself, "Don't tell me about the labor, SHOW ME THE BABY".

Show me.

PEACE.

Darren Wolfson has been hinting that Spielman may be on the hot seat if the team doesn't turn things around this season. 

@"Wetlander" said: Darren Wolfson has been hinting that Spielman may be on the hot seat if the team doesn't turn things around this season. 

 I have to think that the new stadium and training facilities (and tripling their investment)  were priorities over winning.

Now that those issues have been addressed, I certainly hope Ricky's bullshit excuses will start falling on deaf ears. I'm happy to hear that he will FINALLY be judged by, you know, RESULTS.