purplefaithful wrote:

I'm 100% with Sheftie on this one...
I think K1 starts the season and I dont believe JJM is done playing QB for the Vikings either.

I'm leaning the same way. I'm no fan of K1, I've given plenty of reasons plenty of times, but I'm aware of the skillset and how good he can be...when upright, when engaged, and when (if?) his "wheels" are working well.

All that said I think that he's also fragile, I'm among those that think he peaks and falls off, and I'm feeling like JJM will be starting most of the season after the bye week.

Magnus1018 wrote:

Shefter is also a University of Michigan alum. “The team had flaws” - yes we did with very poor QB play (outside of a few decent outings here and there) being one of the biggest but still managed to win 9 games.

I'd gently suggest that, for all the kid's rough start (I think fatherhood played a part), he was behind a line that got Wentz' shoulder broken...and had 26 permutations. This has hardly been a new problem.

We’ve rehashed this to death, but I think there’s a very real possibility that Kyler isn’t a fit for KOC’s offense or that JJM develops into a better QB than Kyler at some point.  I don’t think you want to shut the door on JJM’s potential this early, because the whole point of the competition is that it brings out the best in both QBs.

I don’t think the Vikings were convinced that Kyler was the savior when they brought him in.  This is a rebuilding year.  This is a year where “we are eating our vegetables” and setting our roster up for future success.  We jettisoned veteran talent.  We didn’t spend FA money.  If we thought Kyler was “the guy”, we would have built a team that went all-in around him, similar to what we did last year.  People need to see this for what it is.  It’s a delusion to think that Kyler is “the guy”, that the Vikings think Kyler is “the guy”, and that the Vikings actions are built around maximizing Kylers future with the Vikings.  The Vikings have two question marks at QB and hopefully one of them grows into “the guy” we need them to be.  I don’t think the Vikings are settling for a QB that’s just barely good enough to win the playoffs, they’re trying to figure out how to create an environment where one or both of these guys develops into a better version of themselves.

That said, this won’t go all the way up to the start of the season (in the building), although I still think there’s a real chance that it goes until the end of camp without publicly naming a starter and we have to live in the uncertainty while they practice in private.  I would guess that they split the first preseason game reps and then a decision is made after that game but before the Ravens scrimmage.

"they’re trying to figure out how to create an environment where one or both of these guys develops into a better version of themselves"

The competition will likely be over soon in reality but continued as long as possible publicly. JJ seems to be responding to it and Murray has taken notice.

I'm not convinced there truly was a competition, but they are trying to get the best out of these guys. It seems to be working so far.

I still think there is a 50% chance JJ will be the starting QB for the Vikings in '27, if not before! But I don't think he will start the season opener this year.

medaille wrote:

We’ve rehashed this to death, but I think there’s a very real possibility that Kyler isn’t a fit for KOC’s offense or that JJM develops into a better QB than Kyler at some point.  I don’t think you want to shut the door on JJM’s potential this early, because the whole point of the competition is that it brings out the best in both QBs.
I don’t think the Vikings were convinced that Kyler was the savior when they brought him in.  This is a rebuilding year.  This is a year where “we are eating our vegetables” and setting our roster up for future success.  We jettisoned veteran talent.  We didn’t spend FA money.  If we thought Kyler was “the guy”, we would have built a team that went all-in around him, similar to what we did last year.  People need to see this for what it is.  It’s a delusion to think that Kyler is “the guy”, that the Vikings think Kyler is “the guy”, and that the Vikings actions are built around maximizing Kylers future with the Vikings.  The Vikings have two question marks at QB and hopefully one of them grows into “the guy” we need them to be.  I don’t think the Vikings are settling for a QB that’s just barely good enough to win the playoffs, they’re trying to figure out how to create an environment where one or both of these guys develops into a better version of themselves.
That said, this won’t go all the way up to the start of the season (in the building), although I still think there’s a real chance that it goes until the end of camp without publicly naming a starter and we have to live in the uncertainty while they practice in private.  I would guess that they split the first preseason game reps and then a decision is made after that game but before the Ravens scrimmage.

I agree we’ve rehashed this to death. I agree it’s a very real possibility that Kyler isn’t a fit for KOC’s offense. I agree that it’s possible that JJM develops into a better QB than Kyler at some point, and that we shouldn’t shut the door on his potential this early. 

Where I don’t agree is that this is a rebuilding year. You don’t rebuild a roster with Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, TJ Hockenson, Darrisaw, O’Neill, Cashman, Gink, Turner, et al. I see this year as a 2025 “do-over” with a better QB. Whether that’s Kyler Murray or an improved JJ McCarthy remains to be seen. But KAM spent his wad last year in a “go for it” offseason, banking on his belief that JJ would at least be average, because that’s really all he needed to be. 

We now know that this belief was not unanimous. Still, he spent big money on several free agents, most of whom didn’t work out, and most of whom are now gone, resulting in about $30M in dead money for 2026. Last year’s fruitless spending spree, still on our books, meant that this year’s class would have to be cheaper. In other words, the thrifty approach had much more to do with cap realities than whatever they might think about the QB.

Maybe its me, but I don't see the team standing on a platform of 9 wins for 2026 because the QB1 play will be better hence we'll be adding on from that number from last season. Each season is new unto itself. The rest of the NFCN didn't sit around doing nothing, they attempted improvements as well. Nobody is operating in a vacuum.

IMO this is one of the hardest years on projecting how a division like the NFCN will go down. I think its going to be a slugfest, where a couple plays change the outcome of games.

MaroonBells wrote:

I agree we’ve rehashed this to death. I agree it’s a very real possibility that Kyler isn’t a fit for KOC’s offense. I agree that it’s possible that JJM develops into a better QB than Kyler at some point, and that we shouldn’t shut the door on his potential this early. 
Where I don’t agree is that this is a rebuilding year. You don’t rebuild a roster with Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, TJ Hockenson, Darrisaw, O’Neill, Cashman, Gink, Turner, et al. I see this year as a 2025 “do-over” with a better QB. Whether that’s Kyler Murray or an improved JJ McCarthy remains to be seen. But KAM spent his wad last year in a “go for it” offseason, banking on his belief that JJ would at least be average, because that’s really all he needed to be. 
We now know that this belief was not unanimous. Still, he spent big money on several free agents, most of whom didn’t work out, and most of whom are now gone, resulting in about $30M in dead money for 2026. Last year’s fruitless spending spree, still on our books, meant that this year’s class would have to be cheaper. In other words, the thrifty approach had much more to do with cap realities than whatever they might think about the QB.

I think the proof is in the pudding, we dramatically cut spending. We didn’t bring in free agent talent. We didn’t have to do this. Teams can go several years trying to extend their window. We went one year and are pretending that we’re in cap hell. If we had brought in a legit elite QB with an elite QB budget, we could have easily stretched the window another 3-4 years without it compromising the roster too much.

Vikesrock wrote:

I just don't know how all of this couldn't be theater? Why would Murray sign here for what is essentially peanuts to go through a QB competition when he could have went to probably 10 other places and been insta-starter? He is going in to a final year before free agency and to risk sitting on the bench prior to that would be foolish. I have to believe that there was a wink and a nod somewhere to Murray saying you will start here and get a chance to work with KOC. Then you can look swell and make your millions in 27. What other scenario could it be? If they told him it was going to be a competition and he may not win, why wouldn't Murray take his toys to say Pittsburgh (Before Rogers re-signed) or Miami or a number of other teams that would give him starter guarantees?

You missed that point big time. Yes, we pulled a Steelers Russell Wilson contract with Murray, where the Cardinals are still paying Murray $36 million cash. He did not sign here for peanuts (he's getting $37 mm large), but for the opportunity to resuscitate his career under the known "QB Whisperer".

The offer was there like it would have been at any of those other teams. Arizona was always going to be held to the fire...but he agreed to it.

So yeah, he likes his chances in Minnesota, but I don't believe he was guaranteed by KOC to be anointed as the starter.

May the best QB win.

MaroonBells wrote:

I agree we’ve rehashed this to death. I agree it’s a very real possibility that Kyler isn’t a fit for KOC’s offense. I agree that it’s possible that JJM develops into a better QB than Kyler at some point, and that we shouldn’t shut the door on his potential this early. 
Where I don’t agree is that this is a rebuilding year. You don’t rebuild a roster with Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, TJ Hockenson, Darrisaw, O’Neill, Cashman, Gink, Turner, et al. I see this year as a 2025 “do-over” with a better QB. Whether that’s Kyler Murray or an improved JJ McCarthy remains to be seen. But KAM spent his wad last year in a “go for it” offseason, banking on his belief that JJ would at least be average, because that’s really all he needed to be. 
We now know that this belief was not unanimous. Still, he spent big money on several free agents, most of whom didn’t work out, and most of whom are now gone, resulting in about $30M in dead money for 2026. Last year’s fruitless spending spree, still on our books, meant that this year’s class would have to be cheaper. In other words, the thrifty approach had much more to do with cap realities than whatever they might think about the QB.

That's where KAM really fucked up. KOC wanted to re-sign Darnold. Why? JJ McCarthy was coming off a missed year and a lot of development. He was our starter the year prior, had an excellent statistical season and would tamp down any QB controversy. Basically Darnold was good enough to be our short-term starter and allow JJ to develop without any outside media pressure. When KAM sorry, my spreadsheet says it's JJM time and let Darnold and Daniel Jones walk... he really fucked us over.

Now a year later, we had to bring in another veteran which calls into question our commitment to JJM (at least from the media) and leaves him in a weird spot where he was the starter and now may not be. The QB position is the most important decision a GM can make and KAM buttfucked it royally by not keeping Darnold or Daniel Jones in house.

MaroonBells wrote:

He did look good in that first preseason. I think people underestimate how much damage was done to JJ's development by missing his entire rookie season. I looked it up. In the modern era, it's never happened before where a highly drafted QB missed his entire rookie season due to injury. It's a special dig from the football gods that this only happened to the Vikings, and to the QB they drafted higher than any other QB in their history.
The closest is 2022 3rd rounder Matt Corrall who was injured in the preseason and missed the whole year, 2019 2nd rounder Drew Lock who was hurt in the preseason, but made it back by week 11. And JP Losman, who was drafted in the 1st round in 2004, then was hurt in training camp and missed all but the final four games. These QBs may not have been good even without the injuries, but it's interesting that none of them amounted to anything.

I appreciate you looking it up as this is what I've been saying all along. It was an incredibly unfortunate situation for McCarthy, but even worse for the Vikings last season as it started his development in a hole.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

The QB position is the most important decision a GM can make and KAM buttfucked it royally by not keeping Darnold or Daniel Jones in house.

lmao, awesome. 😂

I can understand some fans really questioning JJM.....but giving up on him after only 10 games with all the other things going on around him? I don't get it. Daniel Jones was their Plan B after Uncle Sammy and he surprised them by leaving....big time.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

That's where KAM really fucked up. KOC wanted to re-sign Darnold. Why? JJ McCarthy was coming off a missed year and a lot of development. He was our starter the year prior, had an excellent statistical season and would tamp down any QB controversy. Basically Darnold was good enough to be our short-term starter and allow JJ to develop without any outside media pressure. When KAM sorry, my spreadsheet says it's JJM time and let Darnold and Daniel Jones walk... he really fucked us over.
Now a year later, we had to bring in another veteran which calls into question our commitment to JJM (at least from the media) and leaves him in a weird spot where he was the starter and now may not be. The QB position is the most important decision a GM can make and KAM buttfucked it royally by not keeping Darnold or Daniel Jones in house.

Yes, he believed in JJ when he probably shouldn't have. And if we're to believe the rumors, within the organization he was alone in this belief. But not among fans. I would say the majority of fans on this board and elsewhere thought he was right to let Darnold walk and go with the QBOTF on a rookie deal.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

That's where KAM really fucked up. KOC wanted to re-sign Darnold. Why? JJ McCarthy was coming off a missed year and a lot of development. He was our starter the year prior, had an excellent statistical season and would tamp down any QB controversy. Basically Darnold was good enough to be our short-term starter and allow JJ to develop without any outside media pressure. When KAM sorry, my spreadsheet says it's JJM time and let Darnold and Daniel Jones walk... he really fucked us over.
Now a year later, we had to bring in another veteran which calls into question our commitment to JJM (at least from the media) and leaves him in a weird spot where he was the starter and now may not be. The QB position is the most important decision a GM can make and KAM buttfucked it royally by not keeping Darnold or Daniel Jones in house.

Darnold was the perfect, behind center, big armed, brass balls, throw into tight windows QB KOC covets - and hasn't had since Stafford. I just didnt believe it after the Lions/Rams games.

Yah, KAM threw all that $$ at the roster and screwed the pooch with the most important position in sports.

I would love to have been a fly on the wall in those 2025 off season discussions between KAM/KOC.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

That's where KAM really fucked up. KOC wanted to re-sign Darnold. Why? JJ McCarthy was coming off a missed year and a lot of development. He was our starter the year prior, had an excellent statistical season and would tamp down any QB controversy. Basically Darnold was good enough to be our short-term starter and allow JJ to develop without any outside media pressure. When KAM sorry, my spreadsheet says it's JJM time and let Darnold and Daniel Jones walk... he really fucked us over.
Now a year later, we had to bring in another veteran which calls into question our commitment to JJM (at least from the media) and leaves him in a weird spot where he was the starter and now may not be. The QB position is the most important decision a GM can make and KAM buttfucked it royally by not keeping Darnold or Daniel Jones in house.

KAM screwed the pooch but he didn’t screw anyone here. I proposed 3/90 for Darnold week 14 or 15 of 2024, saying you can’t give up on a solid starter and 1 other fan here agreed and that’s it. Literally everyone said it was McCarthy time. We can’t revise history now.

No one here whined about Jones either until KAM got fired, for the very same reason, it was JJM time.

To us fans yeah it feels like the team should just name Kyler the starter and be on with it.

But how many practices has Kyler even had in MN? A week or two in a red jersey? He's barely just arrived for all intents and purposes so taking the "competition" into training camp makes sense.

pattersaur wrote:

To us fans yeah it feels like the team should just name Kyler the starter and be on with it.
But how many practices has Kyler even had in MN? A week or two in a red jersey? He's barely just arrived for all intents and purposes so taking the "competition" into training camp makes sense.

Well, I don't think anyone is expecting a QB1 named before training camp, lol. This was fodder for the local media podcasters, I think what many are saying is QB1 needs the reps so if it goes on for 2+ weeks, fine....but not into early September.

pattersaur wrote:

To us fans yeah it feels like the team should just name Kyler the starter and be on with it.
But how many practices has Kyler even had in MN? A week or two in a red jersey? He's barely just arrived for all intents and purposes so taking the "competition" into training camp makes sense.

I'd bet a big part of this is about what each QB did/does during his time between minicamp and the start of training camp. JJ has to keep maturing and developing his touch, and Kyler has to show that he used this time to learn the offense—not completely, but I'm betting KOC has an idea of where he should be by August 1. If one of those things doesn't happen to his satisfaction, the other QB is going to have an advantage.

MaroonBells wrote:

I'd bet a big part of this is about what each QB did/does during his time between minicamp and the start of training camp. JJ has to keep maturing and developing his touch, and Kyler has to show that he used this time to learn the offense—not completely, but I'm betting KOC has an idea of where he should be by August 1. If one of those things doesn't happen to his satisfaction, the other QB is going to have an advantage.

I agree with this big time. I think KOC asked Jefferson to work with both. Get a feel for where both of them are at. We are a week before TC and we are starting to hear from well known big insiders and not just Schefter but now Pelissero most recently, that this will go on longer than we think and it is wide open. More talking praise of JJ now. Makes you wonder what KOC is being updated with on the offseason. It is probably nothing, because I know the baby jesus is the guaranteed starter. Just something that caught my attention.

Montana Tom wrote:

You missed that point big time. Yes, we pulled a Steelers Russell Wilson contract with Murray, where the Cardinals are still paying Murray $36 million cash. He did not sign here for peanuts (he's getting $37 mm large), but for the opportunity to resuscitate his career under the known "QB Whisperer".
The offer was there like it would have been at any of those other teams. Arizona was always going to be held to the fire...but he agreed to it.
So yeah, he likes his chances in Minnesota, but I don't believe he was guaranteed by KOC to be anointed as the starter.
May the best QB win.

I didn't miss that point. I am well aware of the 35 million he stuck to Arizona. My point was that the veteran minimum could and would have been offered by numerous teams. He quite literally would have had his pickings of several teams. And next year being a free agency season for him, why would he risk playing in a QB competition that he could lose when he could walk in to the door of 10 other teams week 1 starter? Either he has the worst agent on the planet, or someone promised him something if he came here, there is no other logical conclusion. You can say he wanted to play with JJ, and maybe he did, but what if he loses said competition? Is he risking his next contract by being beat by what some said was the worst QB in the league last year? Come on...

Its funny because we are all really tired of this topic as fans.....yet its almost impossible not to talk about when various stories pop up. That's how important and what a lightning rod the QB position is in the NFL. I'd wager we could go through every poster and almost everyone on this board would know exactly how the other feels about it, that's how much its been discussed. You dare to hope that if you draft a QB, maybe you'd have a guy you could rely on for 12+ years like you see other teams do: nope, its never that easy for Viking's fans. JJ might still be that guy, but we'll have to go through hell first as fans. And then he might turn out not to be. Wash, rinse and repeat.

So what do we do as fans? We hope individual seasons turn up rosy. We sign cast offs and hope for the best. Never ends that way ultimately. If only deserves had anything to do with it, lol. Sigh.