QB controversy...what I think
I'm pretty much over seeing so much ink devoted to our supposed QB controversy/position battle, here and elsewhere...however it is phrased by the pundits du jour.
Here's what I think will play out:
1) KM will win the starting position coming out of training camp. JJM second string and Wentz third on the depth chart. Brosmer to PS. Pretty black & white to this point.
2) At some point in the season, KM will get hurt. JJM will go in and "do okay". Not great, but better than any time last season. Starting to get shades of gray, but mostly black and white.
3) KM will heal and be back on the field, JJM back to being #2, but having improved showing a glimmer of hope. Shades of gray..."we'll see"...
4) The season will end and the QB controversy will continue into the offseason. This is where the fork in the road splits. KM will either show marginal improvement at the position compared to what we had last season, or a significant improvement given what we perceive as a vastly improved roster surrounding him. We'll know it when we see it. Very gray and fuzzy crystal ball.
5) Depending on how JJM does in relief of KM, will create a very clear impression of whether JJM might still be the QBOTF...or not. Black and white and we'll all intuitively know.
6) Wentz will see the field if both KM and JJM get hurt...yeah, it could happen. But if that happens, Wentz is going to manage the offense far better than he was able to early last season, given he had little time to absorb the offensive scheme.
7) The question then is whether our new GM will spend $100mm+ for a three year extension on KM, or if that money is better diverted to keeping other positions and let JJM's last two years of rookie scale support the continued roster build. If KM takes this offensive roster and brings us deep into the playoffs, then it's a pretty easy evaluation. Very much shades of gray here.
8) Having been stung by Darnold winning the Lombardi, if KM does really well and takes us deep into the playoffs...they'll surely bite on keeping him here and we'll all support that decision.
9) The Vikings will still pick up JJM's 5th year extension as protection/depth...because if KM doesn't get hurt this season, he will next season. His recent history predicts it.
So this is a long way of saying that this season is pretty much set, even though KM still has to "earn it". But it's up to both KM and JJM to seize the day when given their opportunity in TC as well as the regular season.
JJM, when (not if) he gets his shot, can't treat this like his personal "rah rah" college team. He needs to be mature and cool under pressure and not jaw someone in the face when he has a singular good play, drawing another unsportsmanlike flag. That was childish. Gotta keep that crap in containment.
However these two perform on the field under fire, will determine which fork in the road is taken.
Please God, just one Lombardi before I die.
If there's a maturity problem, it ain't on JJM's side, trust me on this. I think you'll see the best from both and let the chips fall where they may. There's really no guarantee of anything, only opinion at this point. There's excitement for a talented guy like Murray and to see what he might be able to do here with this surround....but questions as well. That's all we got on May 19th. Let's see what happens when the ball is spinning in September.
StickierBuns wrote:
If there's a maturity problem, it ain't on JJM's side, trust me on this. I think you'll see the best from both and let the chips fall where they may. There's really no guarantee of anything, only opinion at this point. There's excitement for a talented guy like Murray and to see what he might be able to do here with this surround....but questions as well. That's all we got on May 19th. Let's see what happens when the ball is spinning in September.
I think those scrimmages against the Ravens will tell the tale - at least as much as can be told pre-season.
Pre-season games now are just for setting the depth chart and filling-in final roster spots.
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
“Hell is empty and all the devils are here”
Shakespeare
I believe it will be a true competition. I don't really care about other people trying to make drama out of the situation. It will end up however it ends up. I don't think JJM not being traded is good evidence that it will be a real competition. Even if Murray balls out for some period of time, he's still an injury risk, why wouldn't you keep JJM as cheap insurance. What are you going to trade him for? A 3rd or a 4th? Better off hoping he develops than buying high selling low. Also, for all the talk of letting Darnold walk, and not wanting to have it happen again with Murray, it can just as easily happen if you get rid of JJM and he balls out for some other team.
medaille wrote:
JJM not being traded is good evidence that it will be a real competition. Even if Murray balls out for some period of time, he's still an injury risk, why wouldn't you keep JJM as cheap insurance.
Yep. I like Tommy P. but that's not a logical reason why this will or won't be a true competition. Tom has planted his flag and reputation as a 'journalist' that this is real weeks ago so he's continuing to double down on it. Doesn't mean its accurate. My mild surprise comes from the fact of how many Viking's fans seem to be rooting for McCarthy with this.
It will be a competition, but only to bring out the best in both QBs. Murray will be the starting QB. And that will come with a lot of controversy at the time because fans and media will not likely see Murray much in the preseason, if at all. They will see a lot of JJ and I expect he will look great. Murray's experience is what will win the day. But I think the Samish, 3 year/$100M contract is a pipe dream. The contract he signed in Arizona was 5 years, $230M. It will be more in that ballpark.
However, one factor, the same factor that held Sam's numbers down, could apply again here. Will he look as good outside the Vikings surround?
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it”
MaroonBells wrote:
It will be a competition, but only to bring out the best in both QBs. Murray will be the starting QB. And that will come with a lot of controversy at the time because fans and media will not likely see Murray much in the preseason, if at all. They will see a lot of JJ and I expect he will look great. Murray's experience is what will win the day. But I think the Samish, 3 year/$100M contract is a pipe dream. The contract he signed in Arizona was 5 years, $230M. It will be more in that ballpark.
However, one factor, the same factor that held Sam's numbers down, could apply again here. Will he look as good outside the Vikings surround?
So, you are essentially saying it isn't a true competition. You say that Murray will be the starting QB. Like it is fact, in May. So why have a competition? I feel like you don't like these takes that it will be a true competition. Since you have it made in your head that Murray will be the starting QB. It's crazy that I see contracts already laid out for Murray. Like all this is just a formality. There was a lot of smoke that said McVay wanted to trade for JJ. KOC said no. Must be a reason. Maybe this will be a true competition. If that is the case, JJ could very well win, if he comes out with something to prove and gives it his all. We did draft him 10th overall and didn't trade him when we had the chance.
Murray will be the starting QB. And that will come with a lot of controversy at the time because fans and media will not likely see Murray much in the preseason, if at all.
This is wild. lol
They will see a lot of JJ and I expect he will look great.
IF this is the case, you don't move forward with your 10th overall pick? Murray already has the job? Not sure the fans would be okay with this, and KOC would be putting himself in a situation that may blow up in his face.
I have a hard time seeing JJM on the roster past his contract. Dude just isn't an NFL QB.
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Canthony wrote:
So, you are essentially saying it isn't a true competition. You say that Murray will be the starting QB. Like it is fact, in May. So why have a competition? I feel like you don't like these takes that it will be a true competition. Since you have it made in your head that Murray will be the starting QB. It's crazy that I see contracts already laid out for Murray. Like all this is just a formality. There was a lot of smoke that said McVay wanted to trade for JJ. KOC said no. Must be a reason. Maybe this will be a true competition. If that is the case, JJ could very well win, if he comes out with something to prove and gives it his all. We did draft him 10th overall and didn't trade him when we had the chance.
This is wild. lol
IF this is the case, you don't move forward with your 10th overall pick? Murray already has the job? Not sure the fans would be okay with this, and KOC would be putting himself in a situation that may blow up in his face.
KOC doesn't play his starters in the preseason. If you see them playing much.... they aren't starters. That's pretty much been his MO. Not that I agree with it.
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Sorry, trading JJM was mentioned. TO who? And why would they take him? Outside of a few flashes the kid has been garbage and often injured. Who would trade for that? Outside of a box of plastic forks I am not sure what any team would be willing to give up for him.
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Mike Olson wrote:
Sorry, trading JJM was mentioned. TO who? And why would they take him? Outside of a few flashes the kid has been garbage and often injured. Who would trade for that? Outside of a box of plastic forks I am not sure what any team would be willing to give up for him.
You drafted a 20 year old QB. Not sure how people saw his first couple years play out. Injuries, I agree with.
Canthony wrote:
You drafted a 20 year old QB. Not sure how people saw his first couple years play out. Injuries, I agree with.
Yeah, I'm not ready to toss the towel in on the kid yet. Lets see how he comes out this year. If he still sucks KM1 won't have any issue being QB1.
Canthony wrote:
You drafted a 20 year old QB. Not sure how people saw his first couple years play out. Injuries, I agree with.
He has been historically bad at times. I didn't expect miracles but at least some competent play would have been nice to see. But honestly I just don't see the kid as an NFL player. Nothing he had done in college indicated he was an NFL caliber player to me. He was mostly there to hand the ball off. He was not a prolific thrower in college, if he were I would be all over the let him make his mistakes and grow. I just don't think the guy has anywhere to grow into. I think he is at his ceiling pretty much already.
Is this thing STILL on? | Skol Vikes! |
Mike Olson wrote:
He has been historically bad at times. I didn't expect miracles but at least some competent play would have been nice to see. But honestly I just don't see the kid as an NFL player. Nothing he had done in college indicated he was an NFL caliber player to me. He was mostly there to hand the ball off. He was not a prolific thrower in college, if he were I would be all over the let him make his mistakes and grow. I just don't think the guy has anywhere to grow into. I think he is at his ceiling pretty much already.
Interesting take. Not saying you are wrong, but it's an interesting perspective. I don't think he has even touched his ceiling. Again, just my take is all.
The only hole I see in this is the 5th year option for JJ. That number would be prohibitive for QB2.
“Hell is empty and all the devils are here”
Shakespeare
Mike Olson wrote:
Sorry, trading JJM was mentioned. TO who? And why would they take him? Outside of a few flashes the kid has been garbage and often injured. Who would trade for that? Outside of a box of plastic forks I am not sure what any team would be willing to give up for him.
Josh Rosen went for a second and a fifth (I think it was a 5th) so never underestimate what someone is willing to pay for potential.
“Hell is empty and all the devils are here”
Shakespeare
Mike Olson wrote:
He has been historically bad at times. I didn't expect miracles but at least some competent play would have been nice to see. But honestly I just don't see the kid as an NFL player. Nothing he had done in college indicated he was an NFL caliber player to me. He was mostly there to hand the ball off. He was not a prolific thrower in college, if he were I would be all over the let him make his mistakes and grow. I just don't think the guy has anywhere to grow into. I think he is at his ceiling pretty much already.
Interesting what can be missed.
KOC, JJM, Flores...make a good plan, or you'll be following Kwesi....
Zanary wrote:
Interesting what can be missed.
Or the fact he was on the come the latter half of the season. 10 games started, 6-4. You won't be changing any minds, it is what it is. Some fans have some very strong expectations for this offense with Murray, so let's see it....I'll be the first to crack a tin of candy and nuts for the board when it does.
Zanary wrote:
Interesting what can be missed.
Tell the quarterback whisperer lol.
The HC drove this move, not "fans who fail to believe in JJM" like that's some sort of terrible crime. And yeah I'm not a believer. I wanted to be at one point but that ship sailed.
JustInTime wrote:
Josh Rosen went for a second and a fifth (I think it was a 5th) so never underestimate what someone is willing to pay for potential.
That's accurate. I'd even argue that McCarthy has more believers right now than Rosen did at the time. Vikings would be fools for trading JJ. 2027 might be a different story though.
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it”
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