The Athletic: KOC doubles down on himself

purplefaithful wrote:


Despite a dramatic debut last September, J.J. McCarthy, the 10th selection in the 2024 draft, clearly isn’t regarded (by O’Connell or anyone else) as the Vikings’ long-term answer at the position.

I dont think anyone knows this is how KOC or the Vikings feel about JJM...I dont think thats true tbh.

100% agree. I like Silver, but he’s arrogant. But it helps the narrative for his story to say that.

I'll say this and echo what I said before if Murray signs: its the beginning of the end of JJ McCarthy in Minnesota. Its a shame IMO. KOC has decided that JJM isnt the QB of the future for the Vikings. Murray is being brought in to be QB1, that's obvious. I'm not going to repeat ad nauseam the whys of it, everyone on the board has read those from me.

If you want to applaud KOC for 'taking a big swing' like Silver does, great....but I don't want to hear again how 'organizations fail QBs' not the other way around from O'Connell. I do believe KOC is The King right now organizationally after KAM's departure, so he deserves to do things his way. I just don't personally agree at all with this direction, but that and $5.00 will get you a Starbucks coffee.

MaroonBells wrote:


Bah....I been saying the same thing for weeks. Do I have to quote Lizzo to get any respect around here?  :cool:
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I don't think this is true either. I just think the Vikings think he needs more time..more coaching, more development, more maturity. But it would not at all surprise me if in a couple years McCarthy ends up being one of the better QBs in the league. I just hope he's still wearing purple at the time.

I guess its 'Bad Bitch O'clock' when Kyler shows up...don't get me started on Lizzo, I have a whole Pandora channel dedicated to her and the algorithm.

One last complaint. So THIS is what KOC is staking his reputation on? Okey dokey. An excerpt from this story:

"He has absorbed a healthy share of scrutiny and criticism, some of it self-inflicted. In a 2021 New York Times profile, Murray leaned into his reputation for not being a grinder, saying, “I think I was blessed with the cognitive skills to just go out there and just see it before it happens. I’m not one of those guys that’s going to sit there and kill myself watching film. I don’t sit there for 24 hours and break down this team and that team and watch every game because, in my head, I see so much.”

The next spring, Murray engaged in a messy contract fight that ended up further damaging his reputation, unless the goal was to impress fellow video-game aficionados. Murray’s five-year, $230.5 million contract included an “independent study addendum” requiring him to review four hours of game film per week on his own time.

The Cardinals later removed the clause in the face of public backlash, but they’d obviously put it in there for a reason, and the damage was done. As one Arizona veteran told me the following January, near the end of a miserable 4-13 season, “It was like they created a monster.” Once paid, the veteran said, Murray felt less pressure to study or behave like a typical franchise quarterback, and the disastrous campaign that followed felt predictable.

It’s tough to predict exactly how Murray’s second act will play out".

MaroonBells wrote:


[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/pdRH5wzCQQw?si=zV5BaOwNU80j_Eqg[/video]

[twitter]https://x.com/i/status/2032077247650173429[/twitter]

This from Alec Lewis at The Athletic on Barreiro’s show this morning. Just what I’ve been saying, number one it’s no competition and number two this is going to be the end for JJ McCarthy‘s future with the team. Doesn’t mean it’s this year or next year but no more quarterback of the future. If its true that personnel people on NFL teams are saying that Kyler is a 'major upgrade', then JJM is toast. Straight up fact. They are seeing the video, the tape and have the true inside info. I guess we'll see.

Alec_Lewis expands with @DanBarreiroKFAN on @KFAN1003.

“I've had multiple people, director, personnel, level of people within the league say to me, since the Kyler conversations emerged, like, this would be a major upgrade for the Vikings. That's how others would perceive it and view it. So it does, the obvious question, if this does come to fruition, which is the expectation, is what then happens with J.J. McCarthy? And I mean, you go down many roads there. One would be, I don't believe, right now, he and his representation, Brian Ayrault of WME, have much leverage with the situation. The Vikings obviously would also have to weigh just that dynamics from a personality fit within the QB room, the future from that standpoint. But if you are signing Kyler Murray, a guy who has accomplished what he's accomplished, to sell it as a QB competition, I mean, it's a really lofty attempt at trying to do that, in my opinion.”

comet52 wrote:


I would say it's gone wrong here for JJM in so many ways I don't want to take the time to list them all, but in light of that it would make sense for the Vikings to let his agent find a situation where he can make a fresh start in exchange for a low end draft pick to the Vikings.

That's not going to happen this year, zero way. If Kyler gets hurt at some point, JJ comes in and lights it up, he's now got some leverage. Either commit to me or trade me to someone that will. There's all kinds of potential upside for him to put his head down and compete THIS year because odds are he's going to get into a couple games or so. And this all assumes Kyler Murray plays really well, that's first and foremost. If he stinks the first 3 weeks, the fans...being the fickle little bitches they are, will be chanting for McCarthy to come in. 

He's a penny stock right now......staying in Minnesota at least this year could get him to NASDAQ status. But the only way out is if Murray gets injured because he's not the QBOTF the minute Murray signs.
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MAD GAINZ wrote:


That is what I heard last off-season from a birdie.  KOC wanted to keep Darnold around because of his success here and the fact that JJM missed most of his rookie season with the meniscus injury. He wanted to give him more time. FO won that debate and wanted to build the team up around a rookie contract instead of paying Darnold.  The FO plan was to retain Daniel Jones as the veteran competition for JJM, but Kwesi badly misread how interested Daniel Jones was in returning.  When he left for Indy, it basically forced the Vikings to start JJ McCarthy.  I think most of the frustration from KOC was seeing that JJM wasn't quite ready and knowing he was right and the FO was wrong. I don't think his frustration is tied to anything ability wise, it's purely he wanted him to have a chance to develop more.

Makes sense. But what he's doing now is going to change the dynamic for the short and long term if he doesn't hit Yahtzee on Kyler Murray.

comet52 wrote:

This is counter to some of your other posts lately where you seem resigned to it being over for JJM in Minnesota.  But now you are back to believing in a miracle.  :cool:

Nope. He's not going to be QB1, so he needs some help i.e. a Murray injury or Murray not playing well to gain another view. And he needs to do very well. I've not given up on McCarthy, so if you look deeper into that conversation with Lewis, he also says the team feels like McCarthy could take that leap and his teammates want that. I still think McCarthy is going to succeed, but its looking like not in Minnesota. Which is too bad.

Zanary wrote:

Eh...

...this article is equal parts arrogance and revisionist noise. For all of JJM's issues last season, there were also plenty of highlights and an obvious series of steps towards real improvement in the later games. For all the babble about "simpifiying" the offense, it certainly worked better against opposing defenses as well as working for our offense. We've all agonized over the pass-happy and long-developing plays that KOC hangs his Purple cap on, and maybe he had a big of a reckoning as well.

What really concerns me, beyond the idea of giving up on a kid that shows serious promise, is that any truth in the article basically means that KOC is NOT a "QB Whisperer", but simply a tune-up artist, a guy who takes already-veteran QBs and simply fixes what their initial film shows.

It would say that he can't develop an NFL QB, he is just good at bolting the spinning rims onto QBs that got sent to the crusher too early.

I hope that's not the statement he's choosing to make.

I think that is an insightful and honest question, and I say that really liking O'Connell.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

What if we're all looking at this wrong?

There are reports that Kyler is looking to join a team that has a QB need in 2026 or 2027. 

What if the Vikings are interested purely for insurance in case JJ McCarthy doesn't make a leap this year?

I mean we all know how different QBs have said KOCs offense is complex and it takes awhile to learn it and execute it.  Wouldn't that give JJ McCarthy the upper hand at least initially?

What if the Vikings sign Kyler with the understanding that they want him to come in here to compete, learn the offense, and if he doesn't beat out JJ right away, he could have an opportunity if JJ falters or misses time with injury again this season.

Maybe the plan is to role with McCarthy, bring in a much better backup to push him and see how he responds?  If he responds well and kicks ass, win.  If he doesn't, they can turn to Murray and see how he does.

purplefaithful wrote:



But I have very little expectation that a 24 year old with 10 games played is going to win a TC comp vs a former #1 pick with 7 years under his belt (and training from KOC on top of it.)

Nor should you. Murray is QB1. Anything else really is silliness. You have to believe in KOC here with this. The 'expectation' from fans on this should be more wins and a playoff push, I guess lets start with 1 playoff victory being the floor. Why else do this? Hence the headline by the author about 'doubling down'....that's exactly what he is doing. So I don't blame a man for pushing all his chips in with everything to gain or lose when he's making the decisions, whether I agree with it as a fan or not.

p.s. JJ just turned 23 years old....two months ago.

MaroonBells wrote:


I think they're the loudest, but I don't think they're the majority. Ben Leber posted a poll the other day asking Viking fans a simple yay or nay on Murray. It had roughly 5,400 responses. Yays won 67 to 33.

It isn't the majority.....outside of this board, its easily over 65% in favor. That will grow incrementally as the weeks pass. As we get closer to the Draft, May OTAs, etc. the national media will continue to hype this signing and fans will follow suit.

JimmyinSD wrote:


i think you guys are saying the same thing in disagreement

I'm agreeing with MB that outside this board, most fans are in favor of it. My post might have been confusing?