In Defense of Kyler Murray
We’re considering no less than a dozen QBs to come in and solidify our QB room. Most are aging vets who’ve had previous success, and it’s uncertain whether or not they can continue that success (Cousins, Rodgers, Geno). Some are younger QBs who’ve had little to no success (Mac J, Willis, Richardson). You can add a half dozen names to one list or another: Jimmy G, Carr, Flacco, Mariota, Trubisky… But some of these names, despite not offering much upside, still come with a hefty price tag.
Meanwhile, one of our options is a former #1 overall pick. That by itself is meaningless. Bryce Young was a #1 overall pick, as was Jameis Winston. Unlike those players, though, Murray has solid numbers and a couple of Pro Bowls to go with it. Think about when we brought in Sam Darnold. Now THAT was a bust. He conjured more ghosts than a Salem seance. Viking fans everywhere were unimpressed. My point at the time was that for six years, the guy’s been driving a ’74 Pinto. What might a QB with his arm talent look like driving a sports car? The answer was pretty damn good. Do not underestimate the value of surround.
Fast forward two years and we have a similar opportunity. Except this guy hasn’t been a bust. No doubt, he has concerns surrounding his leadership and work ethic, and that might be a big problem for KOC. And if it is, so be it. Sign Geno and let’s get it on.
But if I’m KOC, I take that chance. The payoff could be enormous. Only 28, tools for days, represents the kind of running threat we’ve never had in our history. Not even Daunte or Fran could run like this guy. It’s almost unheard of for a team with this much talent to get an opportunity to sign a QB with tools like this.
And he’s a Viking fan? And you can get him for close to vet min? Sold American!
MaroonBells wrote:
A lot of harumphing in this thread. Folks seem to think we’re in the catbird’s seat and we have countless great opportunities just waiting for us to put pen to paper and go win a Super Bowl. Kyler Murray? Harumph! Only under the following conditions…!
It’s madness. And your guy is…..who? Every one of these guys has a problem or four, including McCarthy. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t be available. The truth is Kyler Murray, given his talent, age, salary and trade comp, is the best QB option for the Vikings and it’s not even remotely close. I don’t know if the Vikings will sign him. No clue what their thoughts are on this. But I think they’d be absolute eejits for not taking this gift. Because that’s what it is: a GIFT. QBs like this rarely become available. And they never become available (for FREE) to teams with everything else in place.
If the Vikings screw this up and pass on Kyler, an uber-talented QB who’s only 28, was voted rookie of the year and went to two straight Pro Bowls on a crap team, who does not require any trade comp, who does not require any money, and has the Vikings at the top of his wishlist, and then we watch that guy go have success with another team (AGAIN), ala Darnold, I would not want to be the one who has to explain that to this guy…
[twitter]https://x.com/vikesinsider/status/2028976021026783432?s=20[/twitter]
This is the kind of impassioned plea that I applaud.
And this nugget:
https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/onsi/news/with-immense-support-from-vikings-dots-connect-kyler-murray-to-minnesota
Canthony wrote:
He's available for free for a reason, no?
'Hi.....just won the Superbowl'
Listen, I don't think Murray to Minnesota is going to happen for reasons I've mentioned. Its not ideal IMO. BUT....I'm not going to sit here and act like Kyler Murray isn't talented. Can't do it. And if my sweet baby boy just HAS to go down in flames in Minnesota (which I don't think at all is what KOC wants), not sure I couldn't pull a more intriguing option than Murray. Just being honest.
greediron wrote:
Yeah, but not with Minnesota. So why would Murray do any better? If he does well, he moves on. If not, we have wasted another year of JJM.
Please don't misunderstand me, the best way to go this year IMO is with JJ McCarthy. I don't want nor think they will sign Murray. And they can't waste a year of development for JJ, it means they are in all manner of practicality done with him. You don't start a year, sit the bench the next year and then the organization says 'you're our guy again!. Never happen. They'd move on from him next season or the year after.
BUT: its a lie to say Kyler Murray isn't talented and might not have an upward trajectory in his next stop. That's all I'm saying. Trust me, plenty of people said 'well why would Sam Darnold do any better elsewhere'? He'd been with how many other teams? And of all the people on this board, there was just one that thought Uncle Sammy would/could have a great year in Minnesota and that was MB. So MB is running his campaign now so may as well read what he's got to say.
Canthony wrote:
He's available for free for a reason, no?
Yes, the Cardinals are resetting and eating his salary. It happens a lot. But I'm sure you couldn't possibly be arguing that a QB whose team moves on is a QB whose career is over, because that would suggest you haven't paid attention to the NFL the last 10 years.
As a fan, Ive gone back and forth about this situation...I have zero idea what they'll do and I dont know if they have their QB board sorted. But I do think a "Wentz type" signing is more likely than a Murray or Cousins type signing.
Just a hunch...
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
pattersaur wrote:
Kyler started 5 games last year and never topped 220 passing yards. The groundswell of support for us to sign him is wild.
Throw out his stats. Just like the numbers Darnold put up in New York or Carolina, just throw 'em out. They're meaningless. Same with Brees's numbers in San Diego, Stafford's numbers in Detroit, Mayfield's numbers in Cleveland, Mac Jones's numbers in New England, Malik Willis's numbers in Tennessee. Hell, even Fran's numbers in New York. All meaningless.
If we don't know by now that QBs are massively influenced by their surround, then we're just eating the pages of history. And when I say surround, I don't just mean supporting cast, I mean ownership, facilities, coaching, scheme, defense, culture, weapons....all of it.
If we sign him and he stays healthy, Kyler's going to have an enormous year in Minnesota.
MaroonBells wrote:
Throw out his stats. Just like the numbers Darnold put up in New York or Carolina, just throw 'em out. They're meaningless. Same with Brees's numbers in San Diego, Stafford's numbers in Detroit, Mayfield's numbers in Cleveland, Mac Jones's numbers in New England, Malik Willis's numbers in Tennessee. Hell, even Fran's numbers in New York. All meaningless.
If we don't know by now that QBs are massively influenced by their surround, then we're just eating the pages of history. And when I say surround, I don't just mean supporting cast, I mean ownership, facilities, coaching, scheme, defense, culture, weapons....all of it.
If we sign him and he stays healthy, Kyler's going to have an enormous year in Minnesota.
Well, if 2009 is going to get redone at all, this would be the year...And I agree that Murray here with Jettas, Addison and (hopefully) a healthy TJH and OL would blow-up offensively.
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
MaroonBells wrote:
Throw out his stats. Just like the numbers Darnold put up in New York or Carolina, just throw 'em out. They're meaningless. Same with Brees's numbers in San Diego, Stafford's numbers in Detroit, Mayfield's numbers in Cleveland, Mac Jones's numbers in New England, Malik Willis's numbers in Tennessee. Hell, even Fran's numbers in New York. All meaningless.
If we don't know by now that QBs are massively influenced by their surround, then we're just eating the pages of history. And when I say surround, I don't just mean supporting cast, I mean ownership, facilities, coaching, scheme, defense, culture, weapons....all of it.
If we sign him and he stays healthy, Kyler's going to have an enormous year in Minnesota.
"Throw out his stats"... cmon.
On the rest-- If we sign Murray and he stays healthy I think he'll have a good year too and I'll ofc be rooting for it. If we get a Randall Cunningham/Brad Johnson year with Kyler and JJM I can get behind that.
But if bringing in Kyler Murray to start means McCarthy gets dealt to another team, I really really hate that. I'd so much rather roll with JJM and see what he's got than to trade him away and see what he's got for another team.
pattersaur wrote:
But if bringing in Kyler Murray to start means McCarthy gets dealt to another team, I really really hate that. I'd so much rather roll with JJM and see what he's got than to trade him away and see what he's got for another team.
Sure but you don't lose your job if that ends up being a shit sandwich. Or have to figure out how to manage a bunch of pissed vets who thought they were here to win not fuck around and find out with JJM.
You and I have nothing at stake, we can imagine it any way we like. It's different for the guys getting paid millions to produce something more than "See ya again next year boss, ok?!"
IMO Kwesi was prepared to make Kevin do just what you described, but KOC had enough juice with the Wilfs to push him out the door. Hence the very awkward timing.
It's his show now and his publicly backhanding JJM pretty consistently over several months isn't what you hear from a guy who's all-in to risk his career on that kid.
MaroonBells wrote:
If we sign him and he stays healthy, Kyler's going to have an enormous year in Minnesota.
He's not exactly a perfect fit for what Kevin wants to do but you'd think maybe in year 5 with his seat getting warm that Kevin might adjust a bit to circumstances.
If Kyler can stay healthy I agree he could have a very good year.
At the end of the day, we're all Viking fans more than we are JJM fans...That doesnt mean most of us arent pulling for the kid, I am.
BUT - if Murray is here (it makes sense to me to sign him) and he blows the roof off of USB? Well then the org will have to pivot.
Thats a lot of ifs ands or buts...And frankly a good problem to have.
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
pattersaur wrote:
"Throw out his stats"... cmon.
On the rest-- If we sign Murray and he stays healthy I think he'll have a good year too and I'll ofc be rooting for it. If we get a Randall Cunningham/Brad Johnson year with Kyler and JJM I can get behind that.
But if bringing in Kyler Murray to start means McCarthy gets dealt to another team, I really really hate that. I'd so much rather roll with JJM and see what he's got than to trade him away and see what he's got for another team.
Yes, throw out the stats. I can show you stats that make JJ McCarthy look like Tom Brady. And I can show you stats that make him look like Josh Rosen. I can do the same thing with Sam Darnold. Where does that ever get us? Not all stats are meaningless, but they don't mean much when you're talking about how a QB might perform on a totally different team with a totally different surround. Context.
Justin Jefferson scored 2 TDs last year. He's a crap WR. Addison and Hockenson can't catch the ball. Well, if you think either of those things are true, there might be some context you might want to be aware of.
And I have no idea why so many think that signing Murray means moving on from JJ. I certainly don't see it that way. Vikings are going to need a QB in 2027. Darnold said the best thing that happened to him was his year on the bench in San Francisco. Could work well for JJ too................if'n any of this comes to pass.
purplefaithful wrote:
At the end of the day, we're all Viking fans more than we are JJM fans...That doesnt mean most of us arent pulling for the kid, I am.BUT - if Murray is here (it makes sense to me to sign him) and he blows the roof off of USB? Well then the org will have to pivot.
Thats a lot of ifs ands or buts...And frankly a good problem to have.
After what happened with Darnold I can't see them letting Murray walk away if he has a great year, even if they have to tag him. If he leads a playoff run that's more than the usual first round faceplant they will be all-in on him.
If I was JJM and his agent and this team signs Murray I'd just say trade me or release me, thanks. Odds that he gets on the field barring injury trend towards zero at that point. Typically when the guy that was supposed to be the franchise hits the bench, the next move is he hits the road and tries again elsewhere.
comet52 wrote:
After what happened with Darnold I can't see them letting Murray walk away if he has a great year, even if they have to tag him. If he leads a playoff run that's more than the usual first round faceplant they will be all-in on him.
If I was JJM and his agent and this team signs Murray I'd just say trade me or release me, thanks. Odds that he gets on the field barring injury trend towards zero at that point. Typically when the guy that was supposed to be the franchise hits the bench, the next move is he hits the road and tries again elsewhere.
JJM has no leverage at all in this...
Neither Rogers or Love played for 3 years. If JJM doesnt sniff the field this year and he plays the next? Then he'd be on the same path.
Yes, I am aware of the differences of JJM circumstances vs theirs. We all know there are a million ways this can go and I still think Murray is a long-shot here (cause I think they want JJM to be their QB).
But he sure is worth a long consideration and kick the tires.
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
comet52 wrote:
After what happened with Darnold I can't see them letting Murray walk away if he has a great year, even if they have to tag him. If he leads a playoff run that's more than the usual first round faceplant they will be all-in on him.
If I was JJM and his agent and this team signs Murray I'd just say trade me or release me, thanks. Odds that he gets on the field barring injury trend towards zero at that point. Typically when the guy that was supposed to be the franchise hits the bench, the next move is he hits the road and tries again elsewhere.
well with KMs track record and playing style.... odds are pretty good JJM starts a few games next year if they sign Kyler.....
I will say that if they do bring in Murray, it better be for at least 2 years, this one and done shit is stupid. if they are going to take a year away from JJMs development and spend that time working with KM ( or really any other QB) then they need to be able to have some control on at least a 2nd year instead of seeing them walk and maybe getting a mid round draft pick.
Why isn't Chuck Foreman in the Hall of Fame?
MaroonBells wrote:
Yes, the Cardinals are resetting and eating his salary. It happens a lot. But I'm sure you couldn't possibly be arguing that a QB whose team moves on is a QB whose career is over, because that would suggest you haven't paid attention to the NFL the last 10 years.
Would be 'must-see' TV for the NFL if Kyler came in and Minnesota got their RB (either draft or FA), along with BFlo's new contract.
Kyler Murray 2.0 in KOC's offense.
[hr]
p.s. Some national reporters from areas like New York are reporting that their 'sources', which I'm sure are agents, are saying Kyler to Minnesota. I'm seeing MORE steam over this rather than less and that usually lends a lot more heft to it as we are mere days from free agency.
StickierBuns wrote:
Ummm, I'd like to see those stats, thank you.....asking for a friend.
What, you don't remember? Same thread where I became the only man in Denver history to win a beer-league, 2-man volleyball gold, while playing on sand for the first time, with a female teammate, when the temperature was over 90, and the feather of a bird flying south tucked in my cap.
You add enough criteria to your stat, it can sound pretty exclusive. And JJ is, in fact, the ONLY QB in NFL history to have 3 games with multiple TD passes....while also rushing for a TD.... in his first 8 starts. Tom Brady never did that. Goat my ass.
MaroonBells wrote:
Yes, throw out the stats. I can show you stats that make JJ McCarthy look like Tom Brady.
Ummm, I'd like to see those stats, thank you.....asking for a friend.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kTFm6faLdUw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fmeMIKyk22s
I don't get the smoke. Heard some interesting stats on Purple Daily. Since 2022 (last four seasons);
- Murray ranked dead last out of 50 qualified quarterbacks in completion percentage on passes that traveled 25 yards or more in the air.
- In that same time period on passes that traveled 10 or more yards down field, Murray ranked 41st out of 43 qualified quarterbacks in yards per attempt, and 43rd in completion percentage.
Annnnd someone explain to me again how he is a good fit in the O'Connell offense? Like I said, if OConnell wants to dig his own grave...have at it. I really don't care at this point
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