Have we seen enough of....

I havent seen too many McCarthy detractors, least till the season started lol!

One of the young draftees I think the Viking hopeful were VERY hopeful about. Count me as one of em.

I think his demise is a major heart-break for the franchise followers.

As far as Kwesi goes? Its been beaten pretty heavily on most forum boards that I see.

purplefaithful wrote:
I havent seen too many McCarthy detractors, least till the season started lol!

One of the young draftees I think the Viking hopeful were VERY hopeful about. Count me as one of em.

I think his demise is a major heart-break for the franchise followers.

As far as Kwesi goes? Its been beaten pretty heavily on most forum boards that I see.

Yeah, for me this is a little keyboard therapy.  I have been disappointed by the  Vikings many times.  This is a new level, I really like the kid.  I still hold out a bit of hope, but gosh, where are the signs that its possible?

Our GM and JJM have to many similarities. Young and inexperienced, development stunted, lacks awareness, not good under pressure, takes unnecessary hits, turns it over to much.. both gotta go.

When your team is winning, the players are good, leadership is good, the sun is warm and bright, and damn, your wife is beautiful. When you’re losing, the players suck, leadership sucks, its overcast and you wake up next to a woman who looks something like Iggy Pop.

The line has had a horrible year with injuries. After the best free agent class in our history last season, this year’s has been a disappointment. But let’s not lose sight of where the biggest problem lies. It’s not ownership, it’s not the GM, it’s not coaching. To paraphrase James Carville, “it’s the QB, stupid.”

With just average QB play this team beats the Bears, Steelers, Eagles and Ravens and we’re not having this conversation.

I admire the ability of some folks to watch a disaster unfold and go, "Oh everything's fine, relax."

Otoh misidentifying KAM as the problem isn't much better.  He's weak, I'll give you that.  But Andrew Miller Baseball Guy runs this ship and those under him will take the fall if and when the time comes, not him.

Unless Max Brosmer is some sort of unheralded miracle worker I see a lot of bad football ahead.

comet52 wrote:
I admire the ability of some folks to watch a disaster unfold and go, "Oh everything's fine, relax."

Otoh misidentifying KAM as the problem isn't much better.  He's weak, I'll give you that.  But Andrew Miller Baseball Guy runs this ship and those under him will take the fall if and when the time comes, not him.

Unless Max Brosmer is some sort of unheralded miracle worker I see a lot of bad football ahead.

One of the big personal lessons I've learned this year is that 2 polar opposites can both be true at the same time...I've been sick with some big challenges in my life. Yet I have legit reasons to be grateful for much.

In the Vikings case, I think KAM/Miller/Grigson have to go - and MB is right too. With Avg QB play I can't wait to play GB/Lions at home for the division title.

StickierBuns wrote:

This isn't even debatable, its just the truth. I know a couple posters have been waiting to pounce on the organization, outside of the normal venting, but the org. doesn't need an overhaul. KAM deserves scrutiny, zero doubt about that but to burn it all down is knee-jerk fan-think. Listen, I'm as frustrated as anyone as it appears that my boy isn't going to be the dude I thought he was. But I can also see that scorched earth isn't necessary IMO. This regime seems to get zero credit for all the 'lucky' wins but every single ounce of blame for every loss with a few.

Who's talking about burning anything down? Making a common sense change at GM and overhauling the scouting department isn't burning it down, that's just a rational response after four years of proven ineptitude. It blows my mind how some of you just want to continue on with the same status quo who have proven time after time they don't know what they are doing. How many more picks does the guy have to miss on for some of you to say, "enough's enough?" This is year four. We have a maxed out cap situation, one of the oldest rosters in the league, no young depth of any kind, no franchise quarterback, and roster holes galore. This is all related to our inexperienced GM missing on draft picks over a period of four years yet some of you just want to continue down this path. Incredible

StickierBuns wrote:

This isn't even debatable, its just the truth. I know a couple posters have been waiting to pounce on the organization, outside of the normal venting, but the org. doesn't need an overhaul. KAM deserves scrutiny, zero doubt about that but to burn it all down is knee-jerk fan-think. Listen, I'm as frustrated as anyone as it appears that my boy isn't going to be the dude I thought he was. But I can also see that scorched earth isn't necessary IMO. This regime seems to get zero credit for all the 'lucky' wins but every single ounce of blame for every loss with a few.

Getting rid of Kwesi will keep us from burning it all down.  Do you honestly believe he can hit on the majority of draft picks next year to fill the gaps without going over the cap?
His past performance (and that of the staff) doesn't say so.

This is what some of you remind me of with Kwesi

The Wilfs are patient owners. Sometimes patient to a fault. Still, they can't be happy that management spent over $300M of their dollars in free agency & this is the product that they're fielding. Someone in management has to pay for those decisions. If it's Kwesi, then so be it.

But there is a voice in the back of my head telling me let's not be Cleveland who changed regimes numerous times only to keep residing in the AFCN cellar.

Vikesrock wrote:
Kwesi?

Does anyone trust him and his brain trust to run another offseason?  Other then Addison, and maybe Dallas Turner (Not for the price we paid), I can't think of another draft pick he has made worth beans.  I suppose you can say Donovan Jackson, but is he hurt again?

I know I am bitter and angry these days, but the Vikings have 8 draft picks in this upcoming draft..I would rather put a poll up on Packers.com and let them pick for us then have Kwesi ruin another draft.  

And I have to say, the dramatic down of McCarthy is very Viking.  We didn't see it coming.  Ohh I am sure there are some I told you's out there, but we had the Coach of the Year.  A resurrection of Sam Darnold.  The hope pushed forward that McCarthy can do all this...and it's not just bad...it's HISTORICALLY bad.  Hell, I would take Shough from New Orleans right now over McCarthy.  Every week, I hope it gets better, and I can say after this week...can it get worse?

Not yet.  Kwesi has not been good, but you don’t move him until he fails.  He hasn’t failed yet.  A lot is riding on Turner and especially MCcarthey, who still meeds and deserves time.  Now if next year, we are not back in the playoffs, the you look at it.  Anything earlier than that is just the torches and pitchforks instant gratification crowd.

If a better option is available, I'm fine with upgrading. That said, I'm not ready to call him a failure yet. I think most of his drafting issues can be be summed up as a small sample size, as he's traded away a lot of the draft picks we've had. Addison, Turner, and Jackson are all adequate starters (although Turner is stuck behind 2 pro bowl caliber players, I do think he'd be starting most teams).

In general, I've agreed with the strategy he's put out there. I liked that he was very intentional in going to get a QB in a QB rich year. I like that it was synced up with our rebuilding and cap management. I like that we surrounded our QB with talent and sort of let the defense fend for itself a bit. I like that he built from the lines out. I like that he got a RB1B to go with our RB1A. Biggest beef I have with Kwesi is him getting rid of Philips.

Most of my beef this year comes from the coaching staff and just being underwhelmed at the QB position, but I still think it was the right choice to go get a potential HOF caliber QB in the draft, rather than running with a guy who's in that upper mid category that has many years of history suggesting he's not taking a team to a SB.

I still think JJM is going to figure it out at some point in time. I'm willing to let the core staff get 2026 to see how we look. I think we can swap some guys like I think McCown has to be out, maybe upgrade the OC and bring in a guy that allows KOC to be more of a pure head coach. Got to figure something out on ST coaching.

He gambled and lost. In hindsight I'm not a fan of Competitive rebuild. Should have ripped off the bandaid in the beginning. Now we have no depth, no qb, aging veterans, cap issues and a GM thats produced this still in charge.

Still Hurtn wrote:
He gambled and lost. In hindsight I'm not a fan of Competitive rebuild. Should have ripped off the bandaid in the beginning. Now we have no depth, no qb, aging veterans, cap issues and a GM thats produced this still in charge.

Ding ding ding! Hit the nail on the head

Knucklehead wrote:
The Wilfs are patient owners. Sometimes patient to a fault. Still, they can't be happy that management spent over $300M of their dollars in free agency & this is the product that they're fielding. Someone in management has to pay for those decisions. If it's Kwesi, then so be it.

But there is a voice in the back of my head telling me let's not be Cleveland who changed regimes numerous times only to keep residing in the AFCN cellar.

this isnt directed at the poster here,  but I see this 300M figure brought up quite a bit,  in reality it means nothing to the conversation,  the team HAS to spend X amount every single year and from the highest spender to the lowest is peanuts,  and what the low guy doesnt spend gets tacked onto next year where he eventually spend it, so the fact that the team spent 300 million in FA doesnt really mean much except that they had to spend that much on free agents because the didnt have their own talented free agents to spend it on.

the facts are the the teams drafting has been terrible and aside from a few bright additions,  their FA hasnt been as good on the field as it was on paper and something needs to change.

For TJ, JJM and Turner the Vikings traded
1 1st round
3 2nd round
2 3rd round
4 4th round
2 5th round
1 6th round
Or something close to that

MaroonBells wrote:
When your team is winning, the players are good, leadership is good, the sun is warm and bright, and damn, your wife is beautiful. When you’re losing, the players suck, leadership sucks, its overcast and you wake up next to a woman who looks something like Iggy Pop.

The line has had a horrible year with injuries. After the best free agent class in our history last season, this year’s has been a disappointment. But let’s not lose sight of where the biggest problem lies. It’s not ownership, it’s not the GM, it’s not coaching. To paraphrase James Carville, “it’s the QB, stupid.”

With just average QB play this team beats the Bears, Steelers, Eagles and Ravens and we’re not having this conversation.

Completely agree Bells, but who exactly made the decisions which put the Franchise in this QB quandry?   Ultimately Kwesi is responsible.   He needs to be held accountable.  His drafts are just completely awful.  That in itself should be enough to jettison him from the GM position.

JimmyinSD wrote:

this isnt directed at the poster here,  but I see this 300M figure brought up quite a bit,  in reality it means nothing to the conversation,  the team HAS to spend X amount every single year and from the highest spender to the lowest is peanuts,  and what the low guy doesnt spend gets tacked onto next year where he eventually spend it, so the fact that the team spent 300 million in FA doesnt really mean much except that they had to spend that much on free agents because the didnt have their own talented free agents to spend it on.

the facts are the the teams drafting has been terrible and aside from a few bright additions,  their FA hasnt been as good on the field as it was on paper and something needs to change.

To be clear, I'm not talking about $300M charged to the cap although every one of those dollars was charged against this year's cap or will be charged against future caps. I'm referring to over $300M in actual cash outlays that the Wilfs paid out for this year's FA crop. That may be peanuts against their ledger or it might not be.

Chuckf wrote:

Completely agree Bells, but who exactly made the decisions which put the Franchise in this QB quandry?   Ultimately Kwesi is responsible.   He needs to be held accountable.  His drafts are just completely awful.  That in itself should be enough to jettison him from the GM position.

Sure, ultimately Kwesi is responsible for the QB quandry because he's the GM. But, one of the reason's KOC was hired was to identify this team's franchise QB. KOC gave the green light to draft JJM (I'm not saying that he won't someday be our franchise QB. He was an accurate passer at Michigan & I attribute his issues to a lack of experience & changes made to his throwing motion).

It was KOC, not Kwesi, who saw JJM every day during offseason workouts & training camp. He knew that JJM couldn't perform at the required level, yet he still trotted him out there,

Knucklehead wrote:
To be clear, I'm not talking about $300M charged to the cap although every one of those dollars was charged against this year's cap or will be charged against future caps. I'm referring to over $300M in actual cash outlays that the Wilfs paid out for this year's FA crop. That may be peanuts against their ledger or it might not be.

Sure, ultimately Kwesi is responsible for the QB quandry because he's the GM. But, one of the reason's KOC was hired was to identify this team's franchise QB. KOC gave the green light to draft JJM (I'm not saying that he won't someday be our franchise QB. He was an accurate passer at Michigan & I attribute his issues to a lack of experience & changes made to his throwing motion).

It was KOC, not Kwesi, who saw JJM every day during offseason workouts & training camp. He knew that JJM couldn't perform at the required level, yet he still trotted him out there,

my point is.... they as NFL owners were going to spend that money no matter what.   its all cap and cash out of pocket,  they were not going to get to own the Vikings and not spend that kind of money,  hell this way they can write it off sooner,  likely works out for them no matter when they wrote the check so I doubt the really care that much.

Knucklehead wrote:
To be clear, I'm not talking about $300M charged to the cap although every one of those dollars was charged against this year's cap or will be charged against future caps. I'm referring to over $300M in actual cash outlays that the Wilfs paid out for this year's FA crop. That may be peanuts against their ledger or it might not be.

Sure, ultimately Kwesi is responsible for the QB quandry because he's the GM. But, one of the reason's KOC was hired was to identify this team's franchise QB. KOC gave the green light to draft JJM (I'm not saying that he won't someday be our franchise QB. He was an accurate passer at Michigan & I attribute his issues to a lack of experience & changes made to his throwing motion).

It was KOC, not Kwesi, who saw JJM every day during offseason workouts & training camp. He knew that JJM couldn't perform at the required level, yet he still trotted him out there,

Cut the horseshit, son. I've got their draft files right here. Who dropped a whole truckload of fizzies into the swim meet? Who delivered the medical school cadavers to the alumni dinner? Every Halloween, the trees are filled with underwear. Every spring, the toilets explode.

That would be Kwesi Sir.

Of course I'm talking about Kwesi, you TWERP!!! This year is going to be different. This year we are going to grab the bull by the balls and kick him out of office!