Kicking the carcass, one more time...
If new Vikings quarterback Carson Wentz is going to have more success than injured quarterback J.J. McCarthy, Wentz will need more help than what McCarthy was given in Sunday night’s loss to the Falcons.
That means better blocking from offensive linemen, tight ends and receivers.
That means quicker developing pass plays if that blocking is not reliable.
Coordinator Wes Phillips told reporters on Tuesday that too often somebody wasn’t doing their job within the relatively few plays — just 46 — generated on offense. He pointed to a couple examples like the 19-yard throw to receiver Adam Thielen and the 17-yard throw to receiver Jalen Nailor when everyone, including McCarthy, was on point.
“The more of that we can get,” Phillips said, “I think you’ll start to see our offense grow more and more. There is an aspect as well of us learning not only J.J.’s strengths, Carson Wentz coming in, our offensive line — what schemes they are really taking to.”
Ready, set, go? Coaches haven’t had long to learn about Wentz, the 10th-year veteran on his sixth NFL team. He’s been with the Vikings for three weeks. But what’s clear is he isn’t walking into a finely-tuned machine. Film from the Falcons loss shows mistakes made by everyone from the rookie left guard to the team captain right tackle.
The Atlanta Falcons can’t produce a 53.3% pressure rate, the franchise’s best pass-rushing game in seven years, without unforced errors by the Vikings.
Coaches didn’t point fingers at who, exactly, was at fault for the strip sack in the fourth quarter. But right tackle Brian O’Neill appears to leave an unblocked edge rusher off his side, leading to the sack. Phillips alluded to not everyone having the protection call that is supposed to be communicated before the snap by the center, who at the time was backup Michael Jurgens, and McCarthy.
“That’s a play where we should have that defensive end blocked,” Phillips said, “and we just have to be on the same page across the board.”
The Falcons sacked McCarthy six times. Two came via unblocked defenders.
The Vikings’ O-line also struggled to pick up the Falcons’ defensive line movement. Atlanta wasn’t simply rushing straight ahead. They ran many twists, also called “stunts” or “games,” that Vikings’ interior blockers didn’t always pass off to each other.
On the opening third-and-7, when McCarthy scrambled for 6 yards, a Falcons twist generated quick pressure past center Ryan Kelly and Fries — a duo that has played many games together going back to Indianapolis.
“They showed the twists up front that we were prepared for,” said Jurgens, who played 24 snaps (51%) after Kelly exited with a concussion.
“We’ve seen twists a million times from every defense, so we have to be ready for that.”
Plenty of issues surrounded McCarthy, but the 22-year-old quarterback’s decision making and timing left plays on the field. Coaches are likely hoping Wentz can better play on schedule and find the one-on-one opportunities as he goes from options No. 1 to No. 2 to No. 3 in the progression.
Among the six sacks on McCarthy, there was at least one — on third-and-14 in the red zone after Skule was beaten for a different sack — that was solely on the quarterback.
McCarthy wasn’t quick enough with his decision making or throws. In the third quarter, McCarthy nearly threw another pick to Falcons cornerback Billy Bowman Jr. when he was a tick late on a pass to Hockenson.
McCarthy’s average time to throw of 3.15 seconds is the second-longest in the league through two weeks, according NFL Next Gen Stats.
This is affected not only by slower decision making, but also longer-developing pass plays.
McCarthy is averaging the second-most air yardage per attempt while getting very little from receivers after the catch. So, where are the quick passes? The screens that we saw during training camp?
Phillips, the offensive coordinator, said coaches have talked about implementing more quick throws. But those plays are not as easy to execute as they sound.
“The one thing about quick game ... the defense has to cover for this long,” said Phillips, who snapped his fingers. “It doesn’t mean you don’t like quick game, but the throws have to be — footwork and timing are essential in the quick game world. Being able to take the right footwork, seeing the defense quickly. You have to start your arm almost before you see it.”
Does the precision of quick passes mean that’s more difficult on inexperienced quarterbacks like McCarthy?
“It’s based on the individual quarterback,” Phillips said. “Some guys love quick game and some guys don’t. ... J.J. is up for any plays scheme-wise. ... There’s some guys that have always run a lot of quick game, liked quick game. ... Fast-release guys that just want to get the ball out of their hand quickly. We got to find ways to put the ball in the hands of our playmakers, first and foremost, no matter how that is done.”
O’Connell called at least two screens vs. Atlanta. Both went nowhere.
“We don’t throw and catch one with a pretty significant chance for a gain on that play,” O’Connell said, “and then just have a mental error on another screen that ends up being a two-yard gain, when we should clearly have everybody kind of accounted for with a chance to have Jordan Mason in space with a lot of grass.”
Running back Aaron Jones dropped a screen that would’ve been a huge gain in the third quarter. Earlier in the game, a missed block by receiver Tim Jones (14) — the “mental error” that O’Connell referenced — undercut a screen attempt to Mason.
STRIB
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
The purple part is eye opening. The team is shell-shocked and completely out of sync. 7 quarters in 8 of dysfunctional football on both sides of the ball. Someone said if McCarthy can just play average football, the Vikings roster is good enough to play in the title game.
Problem is, McCarthy wasn't playing average and the rest of the roster—even our stars, even the high-priced free agents we brought in— are not playing well either.
I think Wentz can give us some "average" QB play this Sunday, so I think we should see a more functional offense. But the bigger question is will the rest of the roster pull their heads out? Because if they don't it's not going to make any difference how Wentz plays.
"Phillips, the offensive coordinator, said coaches have talked about implementing more quick throws. But those plays are not as easy to execute as they sound"
This is BS. These coaches need to design a system that plays to their players strengths rather than make the players adapt to their system. I don't see how quick throws or small ball could be more difficult than trying to run complex long developing plays.
Give the rookie a chance and build some confidence with the short game. He has a shit line and no protection and a propensity to hold the ball. Coaches, players, and JJ share the blame equally for the Falcons loss.
MaroonBells wrote:
The purple part is eye opening. The team is shell-shocked and completely out of sync. 7 quarters in 8 of dysfunctional football on both sides of the ball. Someone said if McCarthy can just play average football, the Vikings roster is good enough to play in the title game.Problem is, McCarthy wasn't playing average and the rest of the roster—even our stars, even the high-priced free agents we brought in— are not playing well either.
I think Wentz can give us some "average" QB play this Sunday, so I think we should see a more functional offense. But the bigger question is will the rest of the roster pull their heads out? Because if they don't it's not going to make any difference how Wentz plays.
Yep. The team as a whole has been worse than any one player.
Russell Wilson couldn't do anything in Week 1 because he had no time. In Week 2 the Giants OL gave him lots of time, and he went psycho passing all over them. Wentz is unfortunately going to be facing the same uphill battle that McCarthy was facing.
If Wentz comes out and light's it up, then I'll ease up on the team and chalk more of it up to an inexperienced QB taking some lumps. But my eyes are telling me the injuries and issues are not isolated to one player or even one side of the ball.
IMO it's pretty simple as a fan ---
We can't (ever) explain why players play bad some weeks - they're human and we gotta live with it lol!
The OL imo is 50%+ of the problem, 40% JJM in-experiene and 10% everybody else.
You guys figure out where coaching fits, cause I can't...Its an age old question when teams look like shit.
hogjowlsjohnny wrote:
"Phillips, the offensive coordinator, said coaches have talked about implementing more quick throws. But those plays are not as easy to execute as they sound" This is BS. These coaches need to design a system that plays to their players strengths rather than make the players adapt to their system. I don't see how quick throws or small ball could be more difficult than trying to run complex long developing plays. Give the rookie a chance and build some confidence with the short game. He has a shit line and no protection and a propensity to hold the ball. Coaches, players, and JJ share the blame equally for the Falcons loss.
I suspect we will see more of small ball this week...And hopefully more efficient in the run game too.
I dont dispell the notion that quick hitting, west coast type stuff is something JJM might have to grow into. Not sure how much it was part of Michigan's repertoire or not?
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
pattersaur wrote:
Yep. The team as a whole has been worse than any one player.
Russell Wilson couldn't do anything in Week 1 because he had no time. In Week 2 the Giants OL gave him lots of time, and he went psycho passing all over them. Wentz is unfortunately going to be facing the same uphill battle that McCarthy was facing.
If Wentz comes out and light's it up, then I'll ease up on the team and chalk more of it up to an inexperienced QB taking some lumps. But my eyes are telling me the injuries and issues are not isolated to one player or even one side of the ball.
It's definitely not just McCarthy. It's the injuries to Darrisaw, Kelly, Okudah, Harry, Gink, Cashman, etc. It's Ivan Pace missing tackles, it's TJ Hockenson running silly routes, hell it's even Justin Jefferson letting balls fly through his hands. These are not bad players, but they're playing badly right now. I think they'll eventually get in sync. I just hope when that happens it's not too late.
To me its pretty easy to explain. We already had an Oline that was going to be questionable gelling. They were to be the key to allowing JJ the time to grow and get comfortable. Not having Darrisaw has caused massive issues. Then Kelly gets concussed and several times the oline just does not pick up a defensive lineman. There was 1 play where D end on outside edge, goes untouched to Mccarthy. Both Oneill and Jones had the opportunity to at minimum chip or just go and block him. The oline has to get healthy, then they have to start gel and becoming the dominant Oline we were expecting.
Bunsen82 wrote:
To me its pretty easy to explain. We already had an Oline that was going to be questionable gelling. They were to be the key to allowing JJ the time to grow and get comfortable. Not having Darrisaw has caused massive issues. Then Kelly gets concussed and several times the oline just does not pick up a defensive lineman. There was 1 play where D end on outside edge, goes untouched to Mccarthy. Both Oneill and Jones had the opportunity to at minimum chip or just go and block him. The oline has to get healthy, then they have to start gel and becoming the dominant Oline we were expecting.
I think this is a big part. QBs don't like getting hit, they get uncomfortable and then aren't using proper mechanics/base and make bad throws. It is how you ruin a young QB.
Bunsen82 wrote:
To me its pretty easy to explain. We already had an Oline that was going to be questionable gelling. They were to be the key to allowing JJ the time to grow and get comfortable. Not having Darrisaw has caused massive issues. Then Kelly gets concussed and several times the oline just does not pick up a defensive lineman. There was 1 play where D end on outside edge, goes untouched to Mccarthy. Both Oneill and Jones had the opportunity to at minimum chip or just go and block him. The oline has to get healthy, then they have to start gel and becoming the dominant Oline we were expecting.
They definitely need time to gel, and that's going to be hard to do with LT3 and C2 forced to play due to injuries. But from the "you just can't make this shit up" category, here's a bizarre fact that will have you banging your head against the wall and asking for a straitjacket.
Through two games, Garrett Bradbury is the highest graded pass blocker in the NFL among centers (1st/44). Ezra Cleveland is the 5th highest graded guard (5th/88). Who's 1st? Yep. Ed Fucking Ingram (1st/88). It's a small sample size and a long season, so I doubt those grades stick, but FFS, it kinda makes you wonder if we need a new OL coach.
MaroonBells wrote:
They definitely need time to gel, and that's going to be hard to do with LT3 and C2 forced to play due to injuries. But from the "you just can't make this shit up" category, here's a bizarre fact that will have you banging your head against the wall and asking for a straitjacket.
Through two games, Garrett Bradbury is the highest graded pass blocker in the NFL among centers (1st/44). Ezra Cleveland is the 5th highest graded guard (5th/88). Who's 1st? Yep. Ed Fucking Ingram (1st/88). It's a small sample size and a long season, so I doubt those grades stick, but FFS, it kinda makes you wonder if we need a new OL coach.
Did you see ED Ingram on Monday night? I had to look hard a few times (thought I was seeing things)because I had never witnessed him play like that with the Vikings.
I think time to throw is kind of a meaningless stat. In general, I think a long time to throw is generally bad, and a short time to throw is generally better, because the offense is clicking when the QB is throwing quick and on time, but there’s so many factors that go into how long it takes to throw the ball that it’s hard to differentiate what’s what and you end up going back to the context anyway.
Regarding quick throws, I don’t think the team has ever really tried them in the KOC era. Not sure they should be dismissing them so quickly. Regardless, when things aren’t going well, they need to have something else to try, as it doesn’t really look different at all from my eyes. Is anyone else detecting changes in play designs at all when the other teams take away our first things. I also think there’s a lot of other things they could try, that they aren’t trying. I don’t think we’re really a screen team. We’re a little too finesse at the skill positions to really be hammering screens, especially WR screens.
I think I’m most interested in trying to figure out how to become a top tier rushing team. We’ve been a pass to setup the run team for all of KOC’s career. This year, more than others, we probably need to develop the ability to run the ball even if nothing else is working.
Bunsen82 wrote:
To me its pretty easy to explain. We already had an Oline that was going to be questionable gelling. They were to be the key to allowing JJ the time to grow and get comfortable. Not having Darrisaw has caused massive issues. Then Kelly gets concussed and several times the oline just does not pick up a defensive lineman. There was 1 play where D end on outside edge, goes untouched to Mccarthy. Both Oneill and Jones had the opportunity to at minimum chip or just go and block him. The oline has to get healthy, then they have to start gel and becoming the dominant Oline we were expecting.
While this may be easy to explain, it is unfathomable to me that it didn't happen during training camp. The OLine should have done their gelling in TC, not in the first quarter of the season. Particularly Kelly and Fries, who played next to each other for years in Indy.
Something was/is very wrong with the coaching here.
Where’s that 230-pound running back when fewer than 3 yards are needed?
The question was posed to Vikings offensive coordinator Wes Phillips on Tuesday. It would have been posed to head coach and play caller Kevin O’Connell on Monday, but he dropped the J.J. McCarthy-won’t-play-this-week bombshell at the top of his news conference, making it awfully difficult to wedge an off-topic question into the QB whisperer’s sea of loquaciousness.
It was above Phillips’ pay grade to answer, but he gave it a shot.
“We had a third-and-2 where he ran the football,” said Phillips, referring to Sunday’s 22-6 loss to the Falcons at U.S. Bank Stadium. “We had some short-yardage plays where he was in the game and didn’t get a lot of opportunities down close to the goal line.”
He noted Mason was on the field before the delay of game the Vikings had on second-and-goal from the 2, adding, “He’s been in there for a lot of these short-yardage type opportunities.”
Some? Yes. A lot? Sorry, Wes, but no.
Phillips was speaking before we learned that running back Aaron Jones was headed to injured reserve, so presumably Mason will be “in there” more in all situations coming soon.
But here’s a look at how the two teams that played in Minneapolis on Sunday have used their 230-pound running backs – Mason for the Purple and Tyler Allgeier for the Falcons — in short-yardage situations in their first two games.
The Vikings have run 15 plays that needed fewer than 3 yards. Mason has had four touches (26.7%), three between the tackles (20%).
The Falcons, meanwhile, have run 14 plays that needed fewer than 3 yards. Allgeier has had seven touches (50%), six between the tackles (42.9%).
When running between the tackles, Mason has converted 2 of 3 opportunities (66.7%). Everyone else is 3 of 12 (25%) with McCarthy going 0-for-5 passing with two sacks when attempting to throw.
As for Allgeier, he has converted 4 of 6 short-yardage runs between the tackles (66.7%). Everyone else is 4 of 8.
In the Week 1 win over the Bears, Mason didn’t have a touch in five short-yardage situations. He wasn’t on the field for some of them, including a sack of McCarthy on third-and-2 as the Vikings opened the season with a three-and-out. The Vikings converted only two short-yardage situations that day, including McCarthy’s 14-yard touchdown run off a third-and-1 read-option play with Mason.
In Week 2, Mason again wasn’t on the field in some short-yardage plays, including the fourth-and-1 when McCarthy was stuffed for no gain as the Vikings opened the game by turning the ball over on downs at their 36-yard line. Mason did go on to gain 3 yards on second-and-2, 2 yards on third-and-1 and 0 yards on third-and-1. He also lost a yard on an outside run to the left on second-and-1.
Allgeier? Well, all he did between the tackles on Sunday was gain 10 yards on third-and-1, 3 yards on third-and-2 and 4 yards on third-and-1. He also was stopped short on a third-and-2 and a third-and-1.
This is not to say Mason or Allgeier or anyone should touch the ball every time their offenses need fewer than 3 yards. But, in the Vikings’ case, some of us are spending too many of these plays looking at this brand-new Mount St. Purple interior offensive line on the field, the 230-pound running back not on the field and asking, hey K.O. …
“Where’s the beefy back?
STRIB
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
purplefaithful wrote:
Where’s that 230-pound running back when fewer than 3 yards are needed?The question was posed to Vikings offensive coordinator Wes Phillips on Tuesday. It would have been posed to head coach and play caller Kevin O’Connell on Monday, but he dropped the J.J. McCarthy-won’t-play-this-week bombshell at the top of his news conference, making it awfully difficult to wedge an off-topic question into the QB whisperer’s sea of loquaciousness.
It was above Phillips’ pay grade to answer, but he gave it a shot.
“We had a third-and-2 where he ran the football,” said Phillips, referring to Sunday’s 22-6 loss to the Falcons at U.S. Bank Stadium. “We had some short-yardage plays where he was in the game and didn’t get a lot of opportunities down close to the goal line.”
He noted Mason was on the field before the delay of game the Vikings had on second-and-goal from the 2, adding, “He’s been in there for a lot of these short-yardage type opportunities.”
Some? Yes. A lot? Sorry, Wes, but no.
Phillips was speaking before we learned that running back Aaron Jones was headed to injured reserve, so presumably Mason will be “in there” more in all situations coming soon.
But here’s a look at how the two teams that played in Minneapolis on Sunday have used their 230-pound running backs – Mason for the Purple and Tyler Allgeier for the Falcons — in short-yardage situations in their first two games.
The Vikings have run 15 plays that needed fewer than 3 yards. Mason has had four touches (26.7%), three between the tackles (20%).
The Falcons, meanwhile, have run 14 plays that needed fewer than 3 yards. Allgeier has had seven touches (50%), six between the tackles (42.9%).
When running between the tackles, Mason has converted 2 of 3 opportunities (66.7%). Everyone else is 3 of 12 (25%) with McCarthy going 0-for-5 passing with two sacks when attempting to throw.
As for Allgeier, he has converted 4 of 6 short-yardage runs between the tackles (66.7%). Everyone else is 4 of 8.
In the Week 1 win over the Bears, Mason didn’t have a touch in five short-yardage situations. He wasn’t on the field for some of them, including a sack of McCarthy on third-and-2 as the Vikings opened the season with a three-and-out. The Vikings converted only two short-yardage situations that day, including McCarthy’s 14-yard touchdown run off a third-and-1 read-option play with Mason.
In Week 2, Mason again wasn’t on the field in some short-yardage plays, including the fourth-and-1 when McCarthy was stuffed for no gain as the Vikings opened the game by turning the ball over on downs at their 36-yard line. Mason did go on to gain 3 yards on second-and-2, 2 yards on third-and-1 and 0 yards on third-and-1. He also lost a yard on an outside run to the left on second-and-1.
Allgeier? Well, all he did between the tackles on Sunday was gain 10 yards on third-and-1, 3 yards on third-and-2 and 4 yards on third-and-1. He also was stopped short on a third-and-2 and a third-and-1.
This is not to say Mason or Allgeier or anyone should touch the ball every time their offenses need fewer than 3 yards. But, in the Vikings’ case, some of us are spending too many of these plays looking at this brand-new Mount St. Purple interior offensive line on the field, the 230-pound running back not on the field and asking, hey K.O. …
“Where’s the beefy back?
STRIB
Glad the press is asking these questions. Because the fans certainly are. Hopefully someone hand delivers this article to KOC's desk. Start leaning on the big fellas in the middle.
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