Charlie Kirk Shot

Well, there's plenty of room in the anger line WB, plenty of room...

I'm still sending "thoughts and prayers" to the kids gunned down while in church mass and sad about the Hortmans and Gilbert...

Its the American way...Goes back to Lincoln, Bobby k, JFK, MLK, Gerald Ford, R. Regan and many more. 

Only one side uses the verbiage of Fascism, Nazis, and Hitler from the top of the party to the voters, which helps already unstable people justify these types of actions. There are so many sick people in this country, but the hatred emanates far more from the left than the right. This is a true gut punch. Just announced by Trump that he has died. For those of you (and you know who you are) that can't have a discussion without using these labels and slander, all I can do is pray for you. I'm so mad, but I refuse to be like the people that I speak of now.

I agree we need to mourn for all PF but I think there is a difference between the mass shootings and the targeted political shootings. Politics has become way too divisive and the division is increasing breeding this kind of activity. The Trump assassination attempts, Scalise attempt, Minnesota legislators, Kirk shooting are reflective of a society that devalues the other side. The over the top rhetoric has to stop. For instance, MSNBC's first response to the shooting was that they couldn't be sure it wasn't a Trump supporter just celebrating and their gun accidently went off. What do you figure the odds are of that? But it does provide insight into the state of the media that would jump to that hypothesis in spite of the astronomical odds against it being correct.

Did they ever figure out a motive for MN legislators btw? It kind of fell off from the National news cycle so I lost track.

badgervike wrote:
I agree we need to mourn for all PF but I think there is a difference between the mass shootings and the targeted political shootings.  Politics has become way too divisive and the division is increasing breeding this kind of activity.  The Trump assassination attempts, Scalise attempt, Minnesota legislators, Kirk shooting are reflective of a society that devalues the other side.  The over the top rhetoric has to stop.  For instance, MSNBC's first response to the shooting was that they couldn't be sure it wasn't a Trump supporter just celebrating and their gun accidently went off.  What do you figure the odds are of that?  But it does provide insight into the state of the media that would jump to that hypothesis in spite of the astronomical odds against it being correct.

Did they ever figure out a motive for MN legislators btw?  It kind of fell off from the National news cycle so I lost track.

I think they have a handle on it, but that one is going to be a long simmer with so much evidence to plow through. 

Look, I agree the politics in the country have gone crazy btw...I thought a lot of what Biden said was not presidential and welcoming to all (but neither is current Potus' WOKE posts etc.)

Neither one has reached across the aisle or tried to lower the temp. There is no reward for compromise today and there's plenty of division and hate to go around. 

The temp needs to be lowered, but I suspect that'll end-up in the thoughts and prayers pile.

badgervike wrote:
I agree we need to mourn for all PF but I think there is a difference between the mass shootings and the targeted political shootings.  Politics has become way too divisive and the division is increasing breeding this kind of activity.  The Trump assassination attempts, Scalise attempt, Minnesota legislators, Kirk shooting are reflective of a society that devalues the other side.  The over the top rhetoric has to stop.  For instance, MSNBC's first response to the shooting was that they couldn't be sure it wasn't a Trump supporter just celebrating and their gun accidently went off.  What do you figure the odds are of that?  But it does provide insight into the state of the media that would jump to that hypothesis in spite of the astronomical odds against it being correct.

Did they ever figure out a motive for MN legislators btw?  It kind of fell off from the National news cycle so I lost track.

I do mourn for all, but I also want to say that the reasons for people like Charlie Kirk being murdered are due to the rhetoric, and there is no way that both sides are equally culpable.  The false premises and lies spread by the media and leaders of the Democratic party are so vile as to make events like this inevitable rather than random acts.  TDS used to be a funny thing for me.  Now, it's obvious that it is not only real, it threatens our existence as a free country.  Nazi, Facscist, Existential Threat to Democracy, Racist.  All words used loosely, stupidly and consistently amongst liberals.  Enough is enough.  A part of our country's soul died today.  A loving father of two beautiful young girls and lovely wife gunned down because he dared to speak views of wholesomeness, responsibility, and rationality.  When they couldn't defeat his arguments where he willingly brought those who he disagreed with to the front of the line, they simply killed him, and there are cheerleaders online saying he deserved it.

purplefaithful wrote:

I think they have a handle on it, but that one is going to be a long simmer with so much evidence to plow through. 

Look, I agree the politics in the country have gone crazy btw...I thought a lot of what Biden said was not presidential and welcoming to all (but neither is current Potus' WOKE posts etc.)

Neither one has reached across the aisle or tried to lower the temp. There is no reward for compromise today and there's plenty of division and hate to go around. 

The temp needs to be lowered, but I suspect that'll end-up in the thoughts and prayers pile.

I'm too emotional to listen to you properly right now.  There's a lot of anger, and I don't feel that the rhetoric on both sides is anywheres near being equal.  It's very one-sided and has been since 2016.  I think trying to slip in a shot about thoughts and prayers right now is below you.  For many on here, no.  For you, it falls short of where you should be right now.  Believe it or not, in a lot of peoples worst moments, that's all they have to go to.

I think the point for the Right is that we have normalized calling people racists...or Nazis...or Hitler. It even happens with some regularity on this board. Kirk had the Hitler/Nazi thing tossed at him with great regularity. When people asked where and when they would go back in time if they had a time machine...what was the #1 answer? Go back to the pre-Nazi period in Germany and kill Hitler and save millions of lives. You're seeing the rhetoric already in some of the media coverage of his assassination...calling Kirk dangerous and divisive... I didn't agree with some of his stuff but at least he was willing to go out and respectfully have discussions with those with different viewpoints...maybe too effectively for some on the Left.

Waterboy wrote:

I do mourn for all, but I also want to say that the reasons for people like Charlie Kirk being murdered are due to the rhetoric, and there is no way that both sides are equally culpable.  The false premises and lies spread by the media and leaders of the Democratic party are so vile as to make events like this inevitable rather than random acts.  TDS used to be a funny thing for me.  Now, it's obvious that it is not only real, it threatens our existence as a free country.  Nazi, Facscist, Existential Threat to Democracy, Racist.  All words used loosely, stupidly and consistently amongst liberals.  Enough is enough.  A part of our country's soul died today.  A loving father of two beautiful young girls and lovely wife gunned down because he dared to speak views of wholesomeness, responsibility, and rationality.  When they couldn't defeat his arguments where he willingly brought those who he disagreed with to the front of the line, they simply killed him, and there are cheerleaders online saying he deserved it.

I'm too emotional to listen to you properly right now.  There's a lot of anger, and I don't feel that the rhetoric on both sides is anywheres near being equal.  It's very one-sided and has been since 2016.  I think trying to slip in a shot about thoughts and prayers right now is below you.  For many on here, no.  For you, it falls short of where you should be right now.  Believe it or not, in a lot of peoples worst moments, that's all they have to go to.

This will be my last post in this thread, but wanted to respond...

At the bold, thats a good reminder; that for some, it's still a meaningful phrase and notion.

IT's rung hollow (for me) for so long as it pertains to gun violence/gun control that I've come to discount it a great deal. 

Sadly, we have another household with an empty chair at the dinner table. Hopefully, this country can turn down the political rhetoric/heat  in our life-times. Maybe the mid-terms we'll start hearing/seeing signs.

purplefaithful wrote:

This will be my last post in this thread, but wanted to respond...

At the bold, thats a good reminder; that for some, it's still a meaningful phrase and notion.

IT's rung hollow (for me) for so long as it pertains to gun violence/gun control that I've come to discount it a great deal. 

Sadly, we have another household with an empty chair at the dinner table. Hopefully, this country can turn down the political rhetoric heat  and find sensible ways to keep guns out of the hands of people that shouldn't own one.

I think the error in your logic is that for many when they say you’re in my prayers they mean it.  When I offer a prayer for someone I’m doing something meaningful. The power of wishing well and good in moments of powerful reflection leads to people being better in every day life.  Somewhere along the line, people have started to think they’re more powerful than our God.  I know where I want to end up when my time here is done, and I hope I’m worthy of his grace and that I have helped others join me.  For those that want to minimize that, I feel sorry for them.

Waterboy wrote:
I think the error in your logic is that for many when they say you’re in my prayers they mean it.  When I offer a prayer for someone I’m doing something meaningful. The power of wishing well and good in moments of powerful reflection leads to people being better in every day life.  Somewhere along the line, people have started to think they’re more powerful than our God.  I know where I want to end up when my time here is done, and I hope I’m worthy of his grace and that I have helped others join me.  For those that want to minimize that, I feel sorry for them.

PF is one of the most genuinely good humans you will ever meet.  Despite his political differences,   I can guarantee you he found no joy in the actions of today,  and any inference to the contrary will not be tolerated.

I am truly sickened by this assassination. Kirk embodied what I think we all need to learn and that is to respect everyone, especially in disagreement. To act harshly towards others at this time would not be honoring his memory.

JimmyinSD wrote:

PF is one of the most genuinely good humans you will ever meet.  Despite his political differences,   I can guarantee you he found no joy in the actions of today,  and any inference to the contrary will not be tolerated.

Jimmy, I said virtually the same thing and you know how I feel about PF.  We both kept it respectful. I took issue with the shot at Thoughts and Prayers and he acknowledged he shouldn’t have done so.  End of story on that end and no chastening necessary.

JimmyinSD wrote:

PF is one of the most genuinely good humans you will ever meet.  Despite his political differences,   I can guarantee you he found no joy in the actions of today,  and any inference to the contrary will not be tolerated.

As far as I'm concerned, WB and I are on good terms...

We have our listening ears on when the other speaks and its always been respectful, even when we vehemently disagree. 

Give me a call soon, we'll catch-up and I'll let you know how recovery is coming along.

Liz May, state Representative from SD:

Socrates once said that the unexamined life is not worth living. He paid for that conviction with his life, condemned by his own city for daring to question authority. Plato, his student, carried those lessons forward, warning that a Republic cannot survive if its people trade reasoned debate for fear and silence.
That same thread runs through the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson and our Founders declared that liberty itself rests on the right to speak, to question, and to challenge power. Free speech is not a luxury in a Republic — it is its very foundation.
The assassination of Charlie Kirk was more than the murder of a man — it was a message. A message meant to silence anyone who dares to use their freedom of speech. We can either cower, or we can stand. We owe it to the sacrifices of patriots before us to choose courage.
What saddens me most is not just the act itself, but the reaction. Some of our fellow Americans are celebrating the assassination of another American. That is the real story. Each of us should look in the mirror and ask: why do I feel this way? Some are deleting these voices from social media, as if erasing them will erase the problem. I will not delete them. I want people to see it — to see where hatred leads when left unchecked.
If you are a leader, you cannot say “Charlie deserved to die.” To even whisper such a thing is to condone tyranny. They killed Charlie to shut you up, out of fear. Don’t let them.
Courage is not measured in mobs, in fists, or in bullets. Courage is measured in standing firm in your convictions, speaking truth even when it costs you, and showing decency even to those who oppose you. That is the lesson of Socrates. That is the warning of Plato. And that is the price Charlie Kirk has paid.
I pray the young people who followed Charlie will step up and carry on the debate. Our Republic depends on it.
RIP, Charlie — good and faithful servant. May your courage live on in the next generation, and may we never let freedom of speech be silenced in America.

Agree or disagree, he didn't deserve to go out like that. A wife is a widow and children will grow up without a father.

He spread a lot of hate and caused damage along the way. The division in this country and around the world will remain. Working with kiddos and parents after the shooting here has my guard up.

The footage of the person on the roof is concerning to say the least. The suspect will answer to the fullest extent of the law for his actions

Vikergirl wrote:
Agree or disagree, he didn't deserve to go out like that. A wife is a widow and children will grow up without a father.

He spread a lot of hate and caused damage along the way. The division in this country and around the world will remain. Working with kiddos and parents after the shooting here has my guard up.

The footage of the person on the roof is concerning to say the least. The suspect will answer to the fullest extent of the law for his actions

That was unnecessary VG.  When you say "he spread a lot of hate and caused damage along the way"....aren't you really just making a backhanded case for his assassination?  As someone that watched his clips for years, I can tell you that comment certainly didn't describe him.  Do you actually have much familiarity with his work or just going off what you read fom the Far Left?

As I said, I didn't agree with some of his stances...but I did agree with his approach.

Vikergirl wrote:
Agree or disagree, he didn't deserve to go out like that. A wife is a widow and children will grow up without a father.

He spread a lot of hate and caused damage along the way. The division in this country and around the world will remain. Working with kiddos and parents after the shooting here has my guard up.

The footage of the person on the roof is concerning to say the least. The suspect will answer to the fullest extent of the law for his actions

WTF is with this insane liberal talking point.  He did not spread hate.  He engaged in debate and welcomed the public exchange of facts and ideas.  Because liberal ideas have veered so far from the mainstream, they instantly resort to labels of Nazism, Concentration Camps, and Fascism to anyone who dares to disagree with them.  All the while, your side looks past blacks being slaughtered in the inner cities, hard-working American being slaughtered financially and physically by illegals, and encouraging juveniles to do permanent damage to their bodies and minds.  How dare a person challenge your ideals because they have a different vision?   If speaking out against parents enabling 5 yr olds to go through hormone therapy and surgeries to change their sex, when they have no idea of what the concept even means, he was one hateful dude.  Speaking up against discrimination for any race or gender is not hate speech.  Illegal immigration encourages child trafficking, drug transport, and cheats people trying to enter the country legally.  It would be AWESOME if we could let every single individual who wanted to be here in.  It can't happen and still maintain a law abiding and prosperous country.  Face it, your side is the side of hate and you're just too jaded to understand that.  The avg Democrat is so radical as to not even deserve to be taken seriously.  How dare a guy be self-made, have a beautiful family, be Christian, and want to spread his ideals and values.  How dare Charlie Kirk.  Right?   You might as well just say it all instead of your lame fricking false sorrow.

badgervike wrote:

That was unnecessary VG.  When you say "he spread a lot of hate and caused damage along the way"....aren't you really just making a backhanded case for his assassination?  As someone that watched his clips for years, I can tell you that comment certainly didn't describe him.  Do you actually have much familiarity with his work or just going off what you read fom the Far Left?

As I said, I didn't agree with some of his stances...but I did agree with his approach.

No I am not making a case for that at all and I never would. I don't follow the far left much at all actually. Like I said I don't agree with him and I also said he didn't deserve what happened to him. I also said that whoever did this needs to answer for it in a court of law. Tensions are high right now and we need to figure out how to move forward. I don't wish harm on anyone, certainly not anyone I disagree with. There is a huge difference in priorities and approach and that will continue to be an issue

Vikergirl wrote:

No I am not making a case for that at all and I never would. I don't follow the far left much at all actually. Like I said I don't agree with him and I also said he didn't deserve what happened to him. I also said that whoever did this needs to answer for it in a court of law. Tensions are high right now and we need to figure out how to move forward. I don't wish harm on anyone, certainly not anyone I disagree with. There is a huge difference in priorities and approach and that will continue to be an issue

Why don't you tell us what he talked of that you disagreed with?  I'm guessing you're just ill-informed and saying what others say instead what Chalie advocated which was to educate yourself.

Vikergirl wrote:

No I am not making a case for that at all and I never would. I don't follow the far left much at all actually. Like I said I don't agree with him and I also said he didn't deserve what happened to him. I also said that whoever did this needs to answer for it in a court of law. Tensions are high right now and we need to figure out how to move forward. I don't wish harm on anyone, certainly not anyone I disagree with. There is a huge difference in priorities and approach and that will continue to be an issue

VG..I respectfully disagree.  You obviously haven't spent much time listening to him...but you were comfortable saying that he spread a lot of hate...now watered down to "I don't agree with him".  We need to get beyond calling people that disagree with you Nazis, Fascists, Purveyors of Hate, etc.  Can't we just simply disagree?

badgervike wrote:

VG..I respectfully disagree.  You obviously haven't spent much time listening to him...but you were comfortable saying that he spread a lot of hate...now watered down to "I don't agree with him".  We need to get beyond calling people that disagree with you Nazis, Fascists, Purveyors of Hate, etc.  Can't we just simply disagree?

Both are true. He spread hate and I don't agree with him. I also don't advocate violence. I want to see the person that took his life face consequences for his actions. We clearly disagree.