An Absurd Idea

Just saw this as well. Pretty absurd, but gimme a minute.

Derek Carr once had a season with 28 TD passes and 6 INTs... went 12-3 as a starter and shit the bed in his first playoff game. Anyone banging down the door to bring in Derek Carr long term? Cuz that's what we'll have with Darnold. A QB who puts up good numbers, but is fundamentally flawed enough to not be able to win consistently against good teams in the playoffs.

No guarantees JJ McCarthy will, but I'd rather give him a chance to fail than sign up for a stats QB that can't play his best when it matters most.

JustInTime wrote:
Just saw this as well. Pretty absurd, but gimme a minute.

OK, I'll play devil's advocate. We can probably get a king's ransom for McCarthy. Likely a very high 1st rounder this year and also be able to flesh out the rest of our draft. 

And since Sam would likely take under market to stay with the Vikings, we can still probably build a pretty good surround with the added picks and the cap space we have. Last year we added a damn good free agency class with only $17M in cap space. Even if you factor in Sam's hit, we'd probably have twice that this year. We won 14 games last year. Add an IOL or two, sign a free agent corner, put Mason Graham and Ashton Jeanty on the team and lace 'em up. 

(I can see Sticky reading this, having his 3rd pint at the Biergarten, and just SEEETHING. lol. Sorry man, just playing devil's advocate. The thought of trading JJ makes me sick inside).

MaroonBells wrote:

OK, I'll play devil's advocate. We can probably get a king's ransom for McCarthy. Likely a very high 1st rounder this year and also be able to flesh out the rest of our draft. 

And since Sam would likely take under market to stay with the Vikings, we can still probably build a pretty good surround with the added picks and the cap space we have. Last year we added a damn good free agency class with only $17M in cap space. Even if you factor in Sam's hit, we'd probably have twice that this year. We won 14 games last year. Add an IOL or two, sign a free agent corner, put Mason Graham and Ashton Jeanty on the team and lace 'em up. 

(I can see Sticky reading this, having his 3rd pint at the Biergarten, and just SEEETHING. lol. Sorry man, just playing devil's advocate. The thought of trading JJ makes me sick inside).

I don't think Sticky or anyone for that matter would get super worked-up about a scenario that will never happen. JJM is going to be leading this team come fall.

So, here’s the question: Do you think KOC has already maxed out Darnold? Or do you think he can get him over the hump? 

Or

Do you want to see what he can do with McCarthy?

So, I’ve completely rebuilt the CB room, rebuilt, 2/3 of the interior with Gs that could rival the Eagles or at least KC. I’ve added an excellent iDL. A starting RB and a young QB to mentor(McCord got cut off) I’ve still got money to spend on 1 premium FA. 

I’ll still probably order a McCarthy whiteout jersey, but I think I’d do this if I could get SEVEN STARTERS out of a draft plus 2 Day 2 picks next year. Yeah, I’d definitely do this and if it works, Howie Roseman is calling me for advice.

KOC made Dobbs look decent for a few games and Darnold good++ for 16...

I am excited to see what he can do with a QB that has the ceiling/intangibles of a McCarthy.

I'm good with it, do what we can to build a better surround in FA/draft around the kid and go. Probably wont see 14 wins in 25, but I'd be wearing shades a lot thinking the future is pretty bright.

I can't go there. Granted, we've yet to see JJM beyond a tiny bit of preseason and practice footage, but he's getting an almost ideal situation: forced to watch/learn/absorb the system and the culture at work right in front of him as he heals. Nothing replaces reps, it's true, but he had all the positives and negatives from a very exciting season as an involved spectator. This should bring his mental game to an impressive place while his physical game catches up.

I was very happy for Sam, and if he gets the big $$ in Vegas or wherever, I'll still be happy for him. That said, my faith in his processing/vision is pretty shattered at this point, and while our IOL has a huge amount of blame, Sam quit rising to the occasions.

Get a good veteran QB for insurance/guidance, and let's FINALLY develop a franchise QB for a change...!

JustInTime wrote:
So, here’s the question: Do you think KOC has already maxed out Darnold? Or do you think he can get him over the hump? 

Or

Do you want to see what he can do with McCarthy?

So, I’ve completely rebuilt the CB room, rebuilt, 2/3 of the interior with Gs that could rival the Eagles or at least KC. I’ve added an excellent iDL. A starting RB and a young QB to mentor(McCord got cut off) I’ve still got money to spend on 1 premium FA. 

I’ll still probably order a McCarthy whiteout jersey, but I think I’d do this if I could get SEVEN STARTERS out of a draft plus 2 Day 2 picks next year. Yeah, I’d definitely do this and if it works, Howie Roseman is calling me for advice.

7 starters...  Doubtful.  If KOC thinks JJ McCarthy is a franchise QB (he does), there aren't enough picks to justify trading him.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

7 starters...  Doubtful.  If KOC thinks JJ McCarthy is a franchise QB (he does), there aren't enough picks to justify trading him.

Ok, 7 is strong but in no way farfetched:

1. Barron-CB competition: Blackmon, Nudie, Wright, Reddy Steward, Ambry Thomas, Even if you sign Reed, Barron still starts.

2. Harmon-4i competition: Bullard, LDR, something called Travis Bell. I like the chances he starts.

3. Booker-LG competition: Brandel, something called Henry Byrd. After KOC basically called out the iOL after the playoff loss, I like his chance to start.

4. Porter-CB competition: See 1

5. Emmanwori-Nickel competition: Also See 1. I project him as the big nickel/LB hybrid that BFlo is going to use in a similar fashion to Mettellus. This might be a stretch. But maybe Kahlef Hailassie beats him out.

6. Rutledge-RG competition: Ingram, Jurgens, Byrd. Do I have to go any further?

7. JCM-RB competition: Chandler, Zaiver Scott. Let's say for arguments sake they re-sign Jones. Is he starting all 17 games?

Doubtful? The whole premise has about a .00001 chance of playing out. But, if it were or something similar were to happen, I bet we'd pull multiple starters with a potential haul from JJM.

@"moda253" @"JimmyinSD"

I’m noticing no matter how I reply to a thread, the post gets imbedded to my previous reply. Defect or undocumented feature?

StickierBuns wrote:

Yep. Uncle Sammy had a nice run, but the sheets will end up back on the clothesline in big games. I'm obviously excited to see McCarthy play ball, he's only won national championships at every level.

I’ll assume your answer is no.

Question: Do you think it’s possible that KOC could coax an additional gain out of Darnold with another year of coaching? Let’s assume for arguments sake the iOL has been improved.

I’ll assume your eyebrows are at least slightly raised.

I’m not here to bash JJM, but outside an excellent preseason performance against the Raiders, we don’t have a clue how good or bad McCarthy is. None. Not many positions with a higher bust factor than QB. This isn’t debatable.

I’d bet on Darnold improving over last year with a better iOL and better running game happening before McCarthy producing 75% of what Darnold did.

MAD GAINZ wrote:
Derek Carr once had a season with 28 TD passes and 6 INTs...  went 12-3 as a starter and shit the bed in his first playoff game. Anyone banging down the door to bring in Derek Carr long term?  Cuz that's what we'll have with Darnold.  A QB who puts up good numbers, but is fundamentally flawed enough to not be able to win consistently against good teams in the playoffs.

No guarantees JJ McCarthy will, but I'd rather give him a chance to fail than sign up for a stats QB that can't play his best when it matters most.

We’re comparing Carr to Darnold? That’s not apples to oranges, that’s apples to aardvarks. There’s a reason Darnold went 3rd overall and Carr went in the second round. 

To date, Darnold hasn’t played to his best when it matters most exactly twice. Not a 7 year career of shitting the bed with the season on the line, but twice.  

Knowing the history of QBs, which is more likely, McCarthy being a bust or Darnold building on last season? 

Are we throwing out the baby with the bath water? We’ll never know most likely.

It’s all a moot point because it will never happen.

I’ll just order myself a McCarthy whiteout jersey and see if we have ourselves the first real franchise QB since Francis.

JJ ain't going anywhere!

JustInTime wrote:
It’s all a moot point because it will never happen.

I’ll just order myself a McCarthy whiteout jersey and see if we have ourselves the first real franchise QB since Francis.

Now, now...

Culpepper flamed-out in the end, but he was a true franchise QB for a while.

purplefaithful wrote:

Now, now...

Culpepper flamed-out in the end, but he was a true franchise QB for a while.

Yes he was. He had everything you would ask for from a QB.

JustInTime wrote:

Ok, 7 is strong but in no way farfetched:

1. Barron-CB competition: Blackmon, Nudie, Wright, Reddy Steward, Ambry Thomas, Even if you sign Reed, Barron still starts.

2. Harmon-4i competition: Bullard, LDR, something called Travis Bell. I like the chances he starts.

3. Booker-LG competition: Brandel, something called Henry Byrd. After KOC basically called out the iOL after the playoff loss, I like his chance to start.

4. Porter-CB competition: See 1

5. Emmanwori-Nickel competition: Also See 1. I project him as the big nickel/LB hybrid that BFlo is going to use in a similar fashion to Mettellus. This might be a stretch. But maybe Kahlef Hailassie beats him out.

6. Rutledge-RG competition: Ingram, Jurgens, Byrd. Do I have to go any further?

7. JCM-RB competition: Chandler, Zaiver Scott. Let's say for arguments sake they re-sign Jones. Is he starting all 17 games?

Doubtful? The whole premise has about a .00001 chance of playing out. But, if it were or something similar were to happen, I bet we'd pull multiple starters with a potential haul from JJM.

@"moda253" @"JimmyinSD"

I’m noticing no matter how I reply to a thread, the post gets imbedded to my previous reply. Defect or undocumented feature?

If you use the Quick Reply box at the bottom, it doesn't embed the previous post.

Maybe one of the BEST reasons to keep/develop JJM:

finally being spared the "Who's the Vikings QB this season?" posts, every-fuggin'-where. Between all the doubts of our starters, trade rumors, (current) seen QB quandries...I can't wait for all that BS for finally END.

JustInTime wrote:
So, here’s the question: Do you think KOC has already maxed out Darnold? Or do you think he can get him over the hump? 

Or

Do you want to see what he can do with McCarthy?

So, I’ve completely rebuilt the CB room, rebuilt, 2/3 of the interior with Gs that could rival the Eagles or at least KC. I’ve added an excellent iDL. A starting RB and a young QB to mentor(McCord got cut off) I’ve still got money to spend on 1 premium FA. 

I’ll still probably order a McCarthy whiteout jersey, but I think I’d do this if I could get SEVEN STARTERS out of a draft plus 2 Day 2 picks next year. Yeah, I’d definitely do this and if it works, Howie Roseman is calling me for advice.

I think Darnold is maxed out.  We have the perfect set up for a QB to succeed.  Justin Jefferson, Addison, Hock, Nailor, good OL, had AJ at RB.

I don't think you can coach his flaws out of him.  He's always been a guy who needs to see it to throw it and holds the ball too long.

JustInTime wrote:
So, here’s the question: Do you think KOC has already maxed out Darnold? Or do you think he can get him over the hump? 

Or

Do you want to see what he can do with McCarthy?

So, I’ve completely rebuilt the CB room, rebuilt, 2/3 of the interior with Gs that could rival the Eagles or at least KC. I’ve added an excellent iDL. A starting RB and a young QB to mentor(McCord got cut off) I’ve still got money to spend on 1 premium FA. 

I’ll still probably order a McCarthy whiteout jersey, but I think I’d do this if I could get SEVEN STARTERS out of a draft plus 2 Day 2 picks next year. Yeah, I’d definitely do this and if it works, Howie Roseman is calling me for advice.

I think Darnold is maxed out.  We have the perfect set up for a QB to succeed.  Justin Jefferson, Addison, Hock, Nailor, good OL, had AJ at RB.

I don't think you can coach his flaws out of him.  He's always been a guy who needs to see it to throw it and holds the ball too long.

Just my 2 cents, but to me Sam’s a reworked version of Kirk, and that’s something that many of us love…until we don’t.

Granted, Sam just reached the glory of the playoffs for the first time in his career this season, so he doesn’t quite have Kirk’s track record. But with all the turnover and such the org did to get set up for this rookie I can’t see any sense in diverting from the plan. As a fan on the outside looking in, I would be pissed if they took the off ramp to Darnoldville now.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

I think Darnold is maxed out.  We have the perfect set up for a QB to succeed.  Justin Jefferson, Addison, Hock, Nailor, good OL, had AJ at RB.

I don't think you can coach his flaws out of him.  He's always been a guy who needs to see it to throw it and holds the ball too long.

I think Darnold is maxed out.  We have the perfect set up for a QB to succeed.  Justin Jefferson, Addison, Hock, Nailor, good OL, had AJ at RB.

I don't think you can coach his flaws out of him.  He's always been a guy who needs to see it to throw it and holds the ball too long.

He did show anticipatory throws but not frequently enough. Definitely was slow to get the ball out. We’ll see if McVay gets him over the hump.