Ya Let’s hold off on that Kevin O’Connell contract extension

medaille wrote:

KOC will definitely get extended, but maybe we’ve transitioned from “KOC is Coach of the Year/Offensive Guru/QB Whisperer/Just back up the brinks truck” to “He’s a pretty coach that still has some flaws that keep him out of the top tier of coaches”

So who's your 'top tier of coaches'? And what's your criteria? And why are you blaming him again for obvious Darnold shortcomings? What are his flaws? 

Nobody's perfect and neither is KOC. But if I hear one more dim perspective of how KOC didn't gameplan 'short throws or check downs' I'm going to burp up bile. They were there.....Sam didn't utilize them or see them in his skittish frenzy. Execution is everything. John McKay's great quote when asked what he thought about the team's execution in a particular game and he famously said, "I'm all for it".

Sometimes the best laid plans of mice and men......they don't work if the players don't perform.

MaroonBells wrote:


It probably IS both. It's possible KOC could've done a better job with the game plan after what happened in Detroit. That doesn't mean he's not a terrific coach, deserving of a new contract. The good far outweighs the bad in his case. But he's not flawless. I'm sure he'd be the first to admit that, which is another thing that makes him a good coach. 

It's also obvious Darnold was terrible again, held the ball too long and missed open receivers. That doesn't mean he wasn't pretty damn spectacular for most of the year deserving of a Pro Bowl nod and a bigger contract. 

All of this can be true.

So what is KOC supposed to do here when he tells Sam what to do and he shits himself? From Mike Silver, The Athletic:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6060488/2025/01/14/vikings-playoffs-loss-sam-darnold-kevin-oconnell/

Canthony wrote:

If KOC needs to tell his QB what he should look for and in what order and what to do... He was never KOCs QB to start.

KOC is managing chaos at this point. Darnold is pissing down his leg on national TV in the playoffs and he's trying to calmly make chicken salad out of chicken shit. I can't imagine how frustrated Kevin was at the point he realized Darnold was off the rails. The game was like sand through his fingers. His whole gameplan went up in flames because Sam turned into Don Knots.

DH11 wrote:
Yeah, at some point if your quarterback is struggling, it’s on the head coach to call some different plays possibly some three step drops. How about a few hot reads once in a while it looked to me every pass there were three wide receivers & the tight end 15 to 20 yards downfield you just can’t win in the NFL like that you have to hot reads. Kfan now taking KOC to task and they are completely correct he was horrible these past 2 games.

You are watching a different game than I am. There were plays to be made, Darnold didn't make them.

comet52 wrote:

What he should have done is put Mullens in.  It couldn't be much worse, it might have even been better.  Sam had no chance, zero, zip, nada to win that game.  Nick might just have completed some simple throws, released the ball quickly, given the team a glimmer of hope--basic QB stuff that broken-brain Sam couldn't. 

What I want to know is, if KOC is really the "QB whisperer" then what did he whisper in Sam's ear the last two games?  Sam completely lost his head, he looked like a high school kid out among men.

So I guess that is KOC's fault?

hogjowlsjohnny wrote:

You are watching a different game than I am. There were plays to be made, Darnold didn't make them.

So I guess that is KOC's fault?

I asked the question, I didn't provide the answer because I don't know. But all year long the credit was going to KOC for taking a guy who looked like shit for 6 years and maxing him out. So does he bear any responsibility when the guy turns back into a pumpkin in the 2 games that matter the most?

comet52 wrote:

I asked the question, I didn't provide the answer because I don't know.  But all year long the credit was going to KOC for taking a guy who looked like shit for 6 years and maxing him out.  So does he bear any responsibility when the guy turns back into a pumpkin in the 2 games that matter the most?

KOC took Sam to be a bridge QB and paid him bridge money. Through his coaching, his offense and our weapons, Sam exploded, throwing for 4300 yards, 35 TDs and 12 INTs, winning 14 games, while his passer rating dropped below 100 in only 4 of 17 games. He won more games than this franchise has won in its 63 year history. About three times as many games as you predicted, by the way. He deserves a lot of credit for that. But it sounds like you're saying that after watching 16 games of Pro Bowl level QB play, KOC should've just known Sam was going to shit the bed in games 17 and 18. Ridiculous. 

But do I think KOC is blameless in what happened in Detroit and LA? No I don't. By the time the little headset scenario played out, we'd already given up 6 sacks. Why are we still dropping straight back and going deep? There's just not enough time. No Darrisaw, no O'Neill. And Sam is a shell. By that point the game probably should've changed. Rollouts, max protects, quick slants, I don't know, he's the OC.

MaroonBells wrote:

KOC took Sam to be a bridge QB and paid him bridge money. Through his coaching, his offense and our weapons, Sam exploded, throwing for 4300 yards, 35 TDs and 12 INTs, winning 14 games, while his passer rating dropped below 100 in only 4 of 17 games. He won more games than this franchise has won in its 63 year history. About three times as many games as you predicted, by the way. He deserves a lot of credit for that. But it sounds like you're saying that after watching 16 games of Pro Bowl level QB play, KOC should've just known Sam was going to shit the bed in games 17 and 18. Ridiculous. 

But do I think KOC is blameless in what happened in Detroit and LA? No I don't. By the time the little headset scenario played out, we'd already given up 6 sacks. Why are we still dropping straight back and going deep? There's just not enough time. No Darrisaw, no O'Neill. And Sam is a shell. By that point the game probably should've changed. Rollouts, max protects, quick slants, I don't know, he's the OC.

You're just making stuff up about me as usual. I predicted 6-7 wins, which was reasonable if Sam Darnold played all year long like he did in the last 2 games. So the coach gets credit for getting more out of a guy I certainly didn't believe in. But I never became a Sam Darnold believer regardless, because I saw how much he was getting away with all year long, including one of the highest turnover-worthy play rates in the league. To me this was Case Keenum part deux, a guy playing above his career averages and getting a lot of luck.

And yeah, the coach did a lot to keep him from melting down mentally which was his m.o. for 6 years until those last two games. Which is all I'm asking and all I said, despite you needing to make up stuff I didn't say and attribute it to me which is just.. weird. Why did he collapse again in the biggest games, the ones that really mattered? Was it KOC that collapsed and it rubbed off on Sam? Again, I don't know. I'm just asking.

And frankly I don't care, because I don't want Sam Darnold leading this team any more than I wanted Case Keenum back in 2018. I want to see what JJ McCarthy can do and if we've finally found a real franchise qb who can elevate the team and take it to a SB. Something we haven't had around here in 50 years.

There’s probably like 5 people who are going to be upset when KOC gets resigned. It’s not a real big subset of fans. Just because people can see that KOC got outcoached in all four Lions and Rams games, doesn’t mean they’re ready to toss him into the sun.

He just needs to get better, and he’s probably our best option to become the guy that’s good enough.

The fact that some fans will be disappointed when KOC gets an extension is mind blowing, lol. Sometimes you just can't with these takes.....

A lot of people I hear talk about McVay and what he did in year 2 and then went .500 in year 3. That defense he got had center pieces to work with. Donald being a big one. Then trading for Ramsey that ultimately brought them a SB in 2021. The Rams also traded away two first round picks for Ramsey. So they made bold moves for their QB and CB.

medaille wrote:
There’s probably like 5 people who are going to be upset when KOC gets resigned. It’s not a real big subset of fans.  Just because people can see that KOC got outcoached in all four Lions and Rams games, doesn’t mean they’re ready to toss him into the sun.

He just needs to get better, and he’s probably our best option to become the guy that’s good enough.

I agree here. One thing that makes a coach great is his ability to adjust and make in game changes to counter what the opponent is doing. I haven't seen any of that with KOC dating back to our home playoff loss to Danny Dimes and the Giants. KOC is going to sink or swim running HIS  offense and that's that. I think this aspect of coaching is especially important in the playoffs where every team is good. If the Vikings sign him to an extension now, they better hope this is something that changes going forward.

supafreak84 wrote:

I agree here. One thing that makes a coach great is his ability to adjust and make in game changes to counter what the opponent is doing. I haven't seen any of that with KOC dating back to our home playoff loss to Danny Dimes and the Giants. KOC is going to sink or swim running HIS  offense and that's that. I think this aspect of coaching is especially important in the playoffs where every team is good. If the Vikings sign him to an extension now, they better hope this is something that changes going forward.

Reminds me of a particular defensive minded head coach.

supafreak84 wrote:

I agree here. One thing that makes a coach great is his ability to adjust and make in game changes to counter what the opponent is doing. I haven't seen any of that with KOC dating back to our home playoff loss to Danny Dimes and the Giants. KOC is going to sink or swim running HIS  offense and that's that. I think this aspect of coaching is especially important in the playoffs where every team is good. If the Vikings sign him to an extension now, they better hope this is something that changes going forward.

Bingo!! 

Thank you! 

His in game adjustments have been absolutely horrendous.