Greenberg: Vikings should trade McCarthy

Unless Sam is hoisting a Lombardi in a few weeks? NFW I trade JJM. Even then, with JJ on a rook contract?

I like Greeny and think he's a smart guy, but disagree with him here.

Vikings hold all the cards right now...Franchise Sam and buy yourself some time to make sure the kid is right & ready. Get some assets for Darnold down the road. There are QB needy teams EVERY YEAR.

No need to panic or make a decision b4 they have to.

I concur I think they move JJ. I find it hard to believe they’re gonna turn over the keys to a guy that never played a down in the NFL who is basically was a  caretaker at Michigan. JJ basically had two close games in college :  One was against Bowling Green Where was through 3 horrible pics.  The other was the national championship game where he was absolutely atrocious. Pretty easy to play quarterback when your teams up 20 to 3 after the first quarter.

DH11 wrote:
I concur I think they move JJ. I find it hard to believe they’re gonna turn over the keys to a guy that never played a down in the NFL who is basically was a  caretaker at Michigan. JJ basically had two close games in college :  One was against Bowling Green Where was through 3 horrible pics.  The other was the national championship game where he was absolutely atrocious. Pretty easy to play quarterback when your teams up 20 to 3 after the first quarter.

Not a very good take imo. He threw for 22 TD and 5 INT in 2022 and 22 TD and 4 INT in 2023. While throwing for 70% comp. He also had a completion percentage on the run of 71.4%, which was higher than any other quarterback. 

Third-down conversion percentage: McCarthy had a 62.5% third-down conversion percentage on passes.
Third-down, 1-3 to go: McCarthy had a rating of 88.57 on third down.
Third-down, 4-6 to go: McCarthy had a rating of 121.74 on third down
Third-down, 7-9 to go: McCarthy had a rating of 177.57 on third down
Third and 7 or longer: McCarthy had a first down conversion percentage of 55.1%

McCarthy was known for his clutch performances on third down. So there you go. McCarthy’s first down conversion percentage on third and 7 or longer is an astonishing 55.1%. No other big name quarterbacks in the draft can even get their percentage into the 40% range, let alone the 50’s.

Canthony wrote:

Not a very good take imo. He threw for 22 TD and 5 INT in 2022 and 22 TD and 4 INT in 2023. While throwing for 70% comp. He also had a completion percentage on the run of 71.4%, which was higher than any other quarterback. 

Third-down conversion percentage: McCarthy had a 62.5% third-down conversion percentage on passes.
Third-down, 1-3 to go: McCarthy had a rating of 88.57 on third down.
Third-down, 4-6 to go: McCarthy had a rating of 121.74 on third down
Third-down, 7-9 to go: McCarthy had a rating of 177.57 on third down
Third and 7 or longer: McCarthy had a first down conversion percentage of 55.1%

McCarthy was known for his clutch performances on third down. So there you go. McCarthy’s first down conversion percentage on third and 7 or longer is an astonishing 55.1%. No other big name quarterbacks in the draft can even get their percentage into the 40% range, let alone the 50’s.

go back and look at the Bowling Green game. It was actually close in the first half and he threw three horrible interceptions. The national championship game he was 10 out of 18 for a 58 rating that is horrible. Like I said most the time Michigan was up 20 to 3 after the first quarter a lot easier to play quarterback in that situation and I’m a Michigan fan but I can see average and he is very average. He was a product of basically having great players around him like Zach Wilson, Joey Harrington, Brady Quinn, Tim Couch, Drew Henson, Ponder, etc…

I think Mike Greenberg is implying his Jets should give up their top 10 pick for JJ McCarthy lol

No way we trade him.

DH11, the National Championship game wasn't even close. Michigan blew out Washington. The week prior against #5 Alabama was close... And JJ McCarthy won it with his arm on the back of 220 yds, completing 63% of his passes on 27 attempts, and 3 TDs and no INTs.

He was in a run heavy system, but I don't think that is an indictment on him as a player. KOC is a believer and I am too.

Look at what Harbaugh did with the Chargers this year. Justin Hebert who I think everyone agrees was a prolific passer in college and has had a great start to his NFL career went from throwing 35-40 passes per game to 29 per game under Jim Harbaugh. Doesn't seem like much, but he had 504 passing attempts in 17 games, threw for under 4000 yds and had 23 TDs:3 INTs. In 2022, he had almost 700 passing attempts in 17 games.

Harbaugh doesn't need his QB to throw a bunch of passes to win. He wants to run the ball, play good defense, and have a QB who is efficient in the red zone and on 3rd down and doesn't commit turnovers. Kinda funny Herbert went from a passing god to having literally the same TD:INT ratio as JJ McCarthy did in college. Justin Herbert also had 7 games this season with under 200 passing yds.

Just something to think about when we're evaluating JJ McCarthy in college vs what we saw in NFL preseason and pairing him with a coach that loves to throw the football.

The thing is, every QB has strengths and weaknesses. Sam Darnold is a fine QB when given time. He's a bit of a slow processor and holds the ball, but he is special accurate on intermediate and long throws. He also is pretty good at escaping pressure. Because he is a slow processor he isn't gifted at on schedule passes. Give him better protection than what the Vikings have, and he will carve you up with the receivers he currently has. I believe JJM could do the same with better protection.
Improve the Oline and either QB will do well with better protection and a better run game. Improvement in the O-line is the key to the future on offense. But it may not make a difference if Flores leaves. I don't see any defensive coordinator out there that can get the same production out of this defensive roster.
I don't know what the Vikings are going to do with Darnold, but they would be stupid to trade JJM!

MAD GAINZ wrote:
I think Mike Greenberg is implying his Jets should give up their top 10 pick for JJ McCarthy lol

No way we trade him.

DH11, the National Championship game wasn't even close.  Michigan blew out Washington.  The week prior against #5 Alabama was close...  And JJ McCarthy won it with his arm on the back of 220 yds, completing 63% of his passes on 27 attempts, and 3 TDs and no INTs.

He was in a run heavy system, but I don't think that is an indictment on him as a player.  KOC is a believer and I am too.

Look at what Harbaugh did with the Chargers this year.  Justin Hebert who I think everyone agrees was a prolific passer in college and has had a great start to his NFL career went from throwing 35-40 passes per game to 29 per game under Jim Harbaugh. Doesn't seem like much, but he had 504 passing attempts in 17 games, threw for under 4000 yds and had 23 TDs:3 INTs.  In 2022, he had almost 700 passing attempts in 17 games.

Harbaugh doesn't need his QB to throw a bunch of passes to win. He wants to run the ball, play good defense, and have a QB who is efficient in the red zone and on 3rd down and doesn't commit turnovers.  Kinda funny Herbert went from a passing god to having literally the same TD:INT ratio as JJ McCarthy did in college. Justin Herbert also had 7 games this season with under 200 passing yds.

Just something to think about when we're evaluating JJ McCarthy in college vs what we saw in NFL preseason and pairing him with a coach that loves to throw the football.

JJ was terrible in the national championship game. It was obvious the head coach did not trust him to pass the ball.  I encouraged you to pull up the Bowling Green /Michigan game. He was absolutely horrendous and admitted after the game the defense had him confused after throwing three horrendous interceptions.

He’s in the long line of average college quarterbacks surrounded by NFL level talent.

seven years from now he’ll be on his third or fourth team backing somebody up.

https:

StickierBuns wrote:
Sometimes I think that the whole sports media operation is in it to sustain itself with these ridiculous takes. Just create a feeding frenzy of outrageous takes that each can either comment on or just see who can push narratives that create engagement without really believing what they are saying. The ol' 'wink-wink' they know will rile up the lowest common denominators of social media for those views and clicks. This week have given me two examples of media members I didn't expect to stoop into the mire: Jay Glazer and now Mike Greenberg. Disappointing.

There isn't enough actual news to sustain a 24 hour news, and now social media information cycle. So now 90% of what's out there is manufactured bullshit, which gets recycled in an endless grade school game of "pass it on".

I noticed it years ago, before social media really took off, when guys on ESPN (back when I actually paid for cable LOL) would sit around and discuss what other guys on ESPN had said about some topic. That was kinda the point at which I checked out on their sports media circle jerk.

I think it’s also that real journalism takes time and effort, but audiences don’t really care about real information, because the things that they actually look at our click on are just things that innately make them react strongly. Why have a professional researcher spend time and effort trying to track someone down and have a real discussion with them, when you can just have AI or an intern speculate and offer an opinion that half your audience is going to take out of context and get pissed off about, and the other half feels like they have to throw their opinion into the ring on the matter.

medaille wrote:
I think it’s also that real journalism takes time and effort, but audiences don’t really care about real information, because the things that they actually look at our click on are just things that innately make them react strongly. Why have a professional researcher spend time and effort trying to track someone down and have a real discussion with them, when you can just have AI or an intern speculate and offer an opinion that half your audience is going to take out of context and get pissed off about, and the other half feels like they have to throw their opinion into the ring on the matter.

And that's the underlying sickness that is so corrosive. The reactionary stance that so many people take, some without thought, some to manipulate the other reactionaries. It's total dysfunction.

At this point anything I read or hear that seems designed to enlicit some emotional response, particularly "outrage", I question. Or ignore. :)

StickierBuns wrote:
Sometimes I think that the whole sports media operation is in it to sustain itself with these ridiculous takes. Just create a feeding frenzy of outrageous takes that each can either comment on or just see who can push narratives that create engagement without really believing what they are saying. The ol' 'wink-wink' they know will rile up the lowest common denominators of social media for those views and clicks. This week have given me two examples of media members I didn't expect to stoop into the mire: Jay Glazer and now Mike Greenberg. Disappointing.

The idea that the Vikings "should" trade JJ McCarthy is not a ridiculous or outrageous take. It's just an opinion, and one others have expressed, too. I disagree with it. You disagree with it. But Greenberg is welcome to it. And if he says it on camera, it's fair to post that on Twitter. 

What IS ridiculous and outrageous is re-writing the lede to say that Mike Greenberg thinks the Vikings "will look to trade" JJ McCarthy, which is what Pat Macafee's tweet said, even using quotation marks. And then that was repeated in a Tweet by SkorNorth I saw this morning: "ESPN's Mike Greenberg believes the Minnesota Vikings 'will look to trade' JJ McCarthy this offseason."

Greenberg never says that. Not once. Unless it was said outside of what was in the video, but I doubt it. It's this distortion of the truth that drives me crazy.

MaroonBells wrote:
Mike Greenberg is a pretty smart guy, but this is not his best moment. I agree that the Vikings should explore the possibility of keeping Darnold, in whatever shape or form that takes. And I don't agree with some of the responses to this thread who think the Detroit game nixed that idea. It really should not have much of an impact on that decision.

I just think a lot of these talking heads have not paid much attention to the cap picture Kwesi has been carefully crafting since he came on board. The Vikings may extend Darnold, they may tag him, but the are absolutely not giving up JJ McCarthy before he's even thrown a pass in an NFL game....even for a top 10 pick. 

And if it comes down to one or the other, and if KOC thinks it's close at all between the two (and I suspect it is), then the Vikings are going to choose the $4M salary over the $40M salary. 

"I think Sam Darnold has proved that he's more than good enough in this Vikings offense..

I think Minnesota will look to trade JJ McCarthy"@Espngreeny #PMSLive pic.twitter.com/nuNjqaSGkv

— Pat McAfee (@PatMcAfeeShow) January 7, 2025

Greenberg is an asshat airbag.  Technically, he may be smart.  There are a lot of people that are smart.  He's not one I want to listen to in any capacity.

Going by what he actually said, which was he thinks JJM is the clear #1 QB if he were in this draft and that the Vikings should trade JJM for a top 10 pick. We were talking about trading for the 3rd best QB in the draft last year, and the trade packages being tossed around were massive just to swap firsts. We lined up two firsts in 2024 and that wasn’t enough. JJM was a top 10 pick. Then, JJM spent a year at QBU. Assuming he can pass a physical, I don’t think a top 10 pick cuts it here. I think we’d have to be much more in the territory of trading multiple firsts and seconds. I think 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and some other pick would have to be the starting point for the best QB in the draft. But I still think that the Vikings need to end up with the better of the two QBs more than they need to worry about draft compensation.

If JJM has a reasonable chance of being Josh Allen, which is a tier above Darnold, I think you owe it to yourself to wait it out a year, especially for a single first which would has maybe like a 40% chance of busting. You’re probably getting a very similar trade package next year as you would to this year.

medaille wrote:
Going by what he actually said, which was he thinks JJM is the clear #1 QB if he were in this draft and that the Vikings should trade JJM for a top 10 pick.  We were talking about trading for the 3rd best QB in the draft last year, and the trade packages being tossed around were massive just to swap firsts.  We lined up two firsts in 2024 and that wasn’t enough.  JJM was a top 10 pick.  Then, JJM spent a year at QBU.  Assuming he can pass a physical, I don’t think a top 10 pick cuts it here.  I think we’d have to be much more in the territory of trading multiple firsts and seconds.  I think 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and some other pick would have to be the starting point for the best QB in the draft.  But I still think that the Vikings need to end up with the better of the two QBs more than they need to worry about draft compensation.

If JJM has a reasonable chance of being Josh Allen, which is a tier above Darnold, I think you owe it to yourself to wait it out a year, especially for a single first which would has maybe like a 40% chance of busting.  You’re probably getting a very similar trade package next year as you would to this year.

Agreed, if they can get a haul and they see him as Darnold but cheaper, you consider it because additional picks would offset the larger % of cap the QB takes up. But if they think his ceiling is higher than Darnold's, which they probably do, then keep him for sure unless it's an historic fleecing.

pattersaur wrote:

Agreed, if they can get a haul and they see him as Darnold but cheaper, you consider it because additional picks would offset the larger % of cap the QB takes up. But if they think his ceiling is higher than Darnold's, which they probably do, then keep him for sure unless it's an historic fleecing.

What you see is what you get with Darnold. This is his ceiling. JJ coming out had the highest ceiling out of the QBs but the lowest floor. Darnold has been off on his throws for over a month. Winning masked that. We have WRs that can make up for that as well. JJ is 21 and with KOC, the sky is the limit.

I can see the attraction if it is for the number one overall pick, plus appropriate additional picks. I don't see that happening. I see the Vikings sticking to their original plan, which is, JJM being their young, first contract, franchise QB with the cap space to build around him. A short term contact with Darnold, which I doubt he would do, or a tag and trade would not derail the future plans for JJM with the Vikings.
I don't think the Vikings are blind to their roster weaknesses. I think they stick to their original plan.

Canthony wrote:

What you see is what you get with Darnold. This is his ceiling. JJ coming out had the highest ceiling out of the QBs but the lowest floor. Darnold has been off on his throws for over a month. Winning masked that. We have WRs that can make up for that as well. JJ is 21 and with KOC, the sky is the limit.

He hasn't been THIS kind of off. I remember he sailed a pass to Hockenson on the sideline a couple games ago. I think it was in Seattle. I can remember a few other inaccurate passes recently. But nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing all QBs don't occasionally do before they settle in. Just a week before the Detroit game he threw for 400 yards, 3 TDs and had a 77% completion percentage against what was, at the time, the hottest defense in the NFL. You don't do that if you're not throwing with accuracy.  Up until the Lions game, he had TWO bad games, the Jags and the Jets. One average game (the recent Bears game). But every other game--13 of 'em--he was exceptional.

The Detroit game was an entirely different animal. We haven't seen shit like that all year. He never settled in. He was high and outside on nearly all of his passes.

MaroonBells wrote:

He hasn't been THIS kind of off. I remember he sailed a pass to Hockenson on the sideline a couple games ago. I think it was in Seattle. I can remember a few other inaccurate passes recently. But nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing all QBs don't occasionally do before they settle in. Just a week before the Detroit game he threw for 400 yards, 3 TDs and had a 77% completion percentage against what was, at the time, the hottest defense in the NFL. You don't do that if you're not throwing with accuracy.  Up until the Lions game, he had TWO bad games, the Jags and the Jets. One average game (the recent Bears game). But every other game--13 of 'em--he was exceptional.

The Detroit game was an entirely different animal. We haven't seen shit like that all year. He never settled in. He was high and outside on nearly all of his passes.

My fear is that the game, when they matter, are just too big for him. Mondy Night should tell us a lot more.

Canthony wrote:

My fear is that the game, when they matter, are just too big for him. Mondy Night should tell us a lot more.

I think we satisfied the football gods by giving them the most "Viking" stat ever: the only team in NFL history to be a 14-win wild card team. Satiated, they should now leave us (and Sam) alone to beat the Rams.