Finger of Shame- TJ

I posted a similar sentiment about TJH in the Vikings v Lions thread...

All the stars were pointing to him having a big game and the team needing him to have a big game.

I also think we would have seen a couple of PI calls for him if that game was here. Just saying.

Yah, today is a vent day for sure...

KOC has just a short time to turn these guys around.

A win at LA would do wonders to flip the script.

pattersaur wrote:
Alright I'm not here to b and moan too much, so I apologize.

But sadly I am here looking for answers-- Can someone explain to me why TJ Hockenson is 'just a guy'?

I thought he was going to come back midseason and light it up. Hasn't happened at all and it's been Addison who's picked up the slack (up until last night).

Hock gets ignored, then Sam remembers he exists and he'll do some good things for us. Then it's back to nowheresville. He's open and it's a bad throw. It's a good throw and he drops it / can't make the contested catch.

Is it the playcalling? Is he still hurt? Does Sam secretly hate his guts? Was I expecting too much and he's just not that Alpha TE guy?

I know we have other weapons. I know he has to block too. I'm not saying he stinks. He's just... fine.

In games like last night when we desperately need some quick passes or easy completions to move the chains, seems like the Top 10 Pick TE would be someone to lean on.

It was a bad game for everyone. Sam, KO, TJ, JJ, JA. All of those players have had really good seasons though, so I doubt it continues next week. I guess if all your best players are going to suck at any given time, it's probably best that all of it happens in one game--a game that isn't a season-ender. 

Now just throw those performances in one big box with some heavy rocks and drown it in the Mississippi.

They had plenty of Opportunities to win. Plenty of open receivers. Darnold was pressured but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. He appeared to be rushing it. The refs never called anything which didn't help. Detroit is a very good team despite all their injuries.

Anzalone outclassed and shut him down. It was a big squeeze point last night where a lot of stuff went wrong. So many good players just slightly off, KOC off. A game of missed opportunities early that would have changed the course of the game.

That said Detroits coordinators put on a clinic. They both will likely be interviewed for HC jobs. That missed safety call on Goff early was also a killer.

TJ has a flaw, which comes and goes: not great hands.

He's big, he's strong, he can often make great plays...but last season, he, KJ, and Mattison aged me in dog years. They bobbled, dropped, and/or caused INTs with their lacks of dexterity all through those early games. Hock showed the "stone hands" tendency again, last night, which still worries me.

I'm hoping, like the infamous "stone hands Shiancoe", that he spends the needed time with QBs and the JUGS machine to get that sorted.

You should never expect a player to be 100%+ coming off an ACL injury. Sure a handful of players have came back and been great after an ACL injury, but it’s not routine for a player to be their same old selves after an ACL tear.

hogjowlsjohnny wrote:
They had plenty of Opportunities to win. Plenty of open receivers. Darnold was pressured but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. He appeared to be rushing it. The refs never called anything which didn't help. Detroit is a very good team despite all their injuries.

Anzalone was mugging TJ 10-15 yrds downfield all game.  As was Dets CB's.  B-Flo and KOC should have figured that out and adjusted quickly.  We were not doing the same to their playmakers.

SurfnRide wrote:

Anzalone was mugging TJ 10-15 yrds downfield all game.  As was Dets CB's.  B-Flo and KOC should have figured that out and adjusted quickly.  We were not doing the same to their playmakers.

Exactly, they were holding and mugging all of the receivers and were getting away with it.  But Flores was comfortable in his soft zone coverage, letting receivers catch the ball but limiting the YAC.  He should have been playing the same tight coverage.

Greylock wrote:

Exactly, they were holding and mugging all of the receivers and were getting away with it.  But Flores was comfortable in his soft zone coverage, letting receivers catch the ball but limiting the YAC.  He should have been playing the same tight coverage.

There were so many plays though that defined this game for us. The INT that was dropped with us down by just a score would have changed the game. The 3rd and 16 I believe that Darnold missed a wide open TJ would have given us momentum. Over throws that would have been big plays. The defense being able to get pressure but not other times when needed was a big question for me.

Greylock wrote:

Exactly, they were holding and mugging all of the receivers and were getting away with it.  But Flores was comfortable in his soft zone coverage, letting receivers catch the ball but limiting the YAC.  He should have been playing the same tight coverage.

We don't really have guys who can do it, not for 4 quarters. Secondary needs upgrading this off-season.

comet52 wrote:

We don't really have guys who can do it, not for 4 quarters.  Secondary needs upgrading this off-season.

you beat me to it,  and besides, how many CBs in the league can handle St Brown in press coverage?  he loses 99% of them with his first move,  the other 1% with a quick 2nd move.

Its always been this way, that most of the season, teams aren't allowed to hold and then in the playoffs, they for whatever reason change to defensive holding is allowed all the time. People have been saying that campbell tells his CBS to hold every play because they won't call it.

I really think that they just need to be consistent. It shouldn't change whether its a penalty or not just because the officiating team is different, or the player is more regarded or whatever, or it's the postseason.

medaille wrote:
Its always been this way, that most of the season, teams aren't allowed to hold and then in the playoffs, they for whatever reason change to defensive holding is allowed all the time.  People have been saying that campbell tells his CBS to hold every play because they won't call it.

I really think that they just need to be consistent.  It shouldn't change whether its a penalty or not just because the officiating team is different, or the player is more regarded or whatever, or it's the postseason.

when the refs flip script and let shit like that go,  it really begs the question of the integrity of the game.

JimmyinSD wrote:

when the refs flip script and let shit like that go,  it really begs the question of the integrity of the game.

Damn right. Reminds me of 2009 season playoff against the Saints.

JimmyinSD wrote:

when the refs flip script and let shit like that go,  it really begs the question of the integrity of the game.

I feel like it makes the whole postseason really weird, because the regular season rewards teams like ours that are more of a finesse team, and then to win in the playoffs you need to be a physical team as well.

I totally get it in one sense, that you want to stymie player safety issues, but also want hard hitting plays during the primetime games.  But defensive grabbiness isn’t really a player safety issue, it just changes the style of the game to reward different teams.  I do feel like it really benefits a team like the Lions though that is averaging 33 points a game, and can afford to stack up regular season penalties, and then to have those penalties ignored in primetime is nuts, whereas other teams probably lose those games, and have to play clean in the regular season and then retrain themselves how to play in the postseason.

medaille wrote:

I feel like it makes the whole postseason really weird, because the regular season rewards teams like ours that are more of a finesse team, and then to win in the playoffs you need to be a physical team as well.

I totally get it in one sense, that you want to stymie player safety issues, but also want hard hitting plays during the primetime games.  But defensive grabbiness isn’t really a player safety issue, it just changes the style of the game to reward different teams.  I do feel like it really benefits a team like the Lions though that is averaging 33 points a game, and can afford to stack up regular season penalties, and then to have those penalties ignored in primetime is nuts, whereas other teams probably lose those games, and have to play clean in the regular season and then retrain themselves how to play in the postseason.

Same thing happens in the NBA. I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other but yeah, coaches should be aware of it and adapt if possible.

MaroonBells wrote:

It was a bad game for everyone. Sam, KO, TJ, JJ, JA. All of those players have had really good seasons though, so I doubt it continues next week. I guess if all your best players are going to suck at any given time, it's probably best that all of it happens in one game--a game that isn't a season-ender. 

Now just throw those performances in one big box with some heavy rocks and drown it in the Mississippi.

For sure. The money side of it might be affecting my feelings too. Whereas everyone else you mentioned has vastly outperformed their contracts, TJ... eh. He's been fine. Hopefully he torches the Rams and I feel like a bozo here shortly.