Vikings want to keep 23?

MaroonBells wrote:

...after not doing what it took to keep Cousins, not doing what it took to move up for the QB last year, not doing what it took to sign Christian Wilkins, Hunter. Hopefully we don't add JJ to that list. 

I like a lot of the hard decisions Kwesi has made in setting this team up for a run in '25, with $159M in cap space and hopefully the QBOTF on a rookie deal. But this seeming refusal to go X+1 to add key pieces could be his downfall.

Oh...It would be. 

OTOH, it sounds like the org is aligned on a Penix or Nix + 23 as a reason to dance. 

Who gives a F about cap if you don't have the most important position in sports well manned?

I think this is just the Vikings letting teams know publicly that they aren't going to get raked over the coals on a trade up. I think this is more to counteract some of the reports of teams in the top 5 reportedly asking for at least 3 first rounders as a starting point. If you look at all the trade value charts out there, 11+23 will get you to #3 with a mid round pick tossed in and is more than enough to get to #4 or #5 (even with the QB tax).

I'm guessing in the end we'll move 11+23 if we trade up to 4 or 5 for a QB in the end which I'm cool with if we love that QB. No price is too high. All this is just public negotiating to set the table for real trade discussions and an attempt by the Vikings to let teams know they aren't desperate.

JimmyinSD wrote:

The problem w8th the logic of assuming next years 1st will be a high first if Darnold doesn't work out is that we still have a pretty potent offense,  what should be am improved defense,  and a couple of backups that could win a few games themselves.  We have seen plenty of teams do ok with less than stellar QB play.  I think it's more likely that we end up picking in that 10 to 20 range again if Darnold doesn't worn out,  but in what's likely to be a much weaker QB draft the option to move into a top 5 spot for one of those QBs would likely be much more costly if even an option at all.  I dont want to spend next years one either, especially after trading our 2s, but get your guy this year.

Agreed. I know some fans don't want to hear it, but the team could win 7 or 8 games this year with Darnold. 

We'll find out next week. The team has options, but no QB selected in the first round?? IMO, that's the least likely scenario. But its not at zero. I think the team really loves the defensive players available.

JimmyinSD wrote:
The problem w8th the logic of assuming next years 1st will be a high first if Darnold doesn't work out is that we still have a pretty potent offense,  what should be am improved defense,  and a couple of backups that could win a few games themselves.  We have seen plenty of teams do ok with less than stellar QB play.  I think it's more likely that we end up picking in that 10 to 20 range again if Darnold doesn't worn out,  but in what's likely to be a much weaker QB draft the option to move into a top 5 spot for one of those QBs would likely be much more costly if even an option at all.  I dont want to spend next years one either, especially after trading our 2s, but get your guy this year.

I think based on our division, if we end up in a scenario where Darnold starts most of the season (possible), it's highly likely that pick is in the top 10, maybe top 5 in 2025. I'm not giving that pick up under any circumstances for the 4th rated QB in this draft

From GBN;

We are just kind of spitballing here, but we are starting to get a sense that what happens with the 4th pick overall at this month’s draft could come down to whether Arizona or Minnesota blinks first. As noted earlier, people around the league are now pretty convinced that QBs Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels and Drake Maye will go 1-2-3 to Chicago, Washington and New England, respectively, with the first three picks. At the same time, Arizona has made it pretty clear that with JJ McCarthy still on the board, the 4th pick is there for the taking to any team that ponies up their asking price of what appears to be multiple first round picks. Indeed, not that long ago it appeared that there were as many as 4 teams – the Giants, Minnesota, Denver and Las Vegas – which were interested. However, it now appears that the Giants, who pick 6th, don’t appear to be willing to part with any future #1 picks, while neither Denver nor Vegas, which pick 12th and 13th, are prepared to part with both their 2025 and 2026 first rounders, at least for the 4th rated QB in this draft class. That leaves Minnesota at #11 which still seems very interested. Earlier this week, for example, GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah was quoted as saying that there were a number of QBs that the Vikings were ‘in love with!’ and that they were willing to pay the price which according to reports would include the 11th and 23rd picks this year and their #1 in 2025. At the same time, though, Adofo-Mensah also cautioned that there ‘were also other guys they were in love with if they could get them at a certain value.’ Translated, the Vikings also aren’t going to overpay for the right to move and have some legitimate backup alternatives. If that is in fact the case, and again we’re just speculating here, then there may not be a whole lot of pressure on either team to rush into a deal and if anything gets done it could very well be much closer to the draft. Stay tuned!

supafreak84 wrote:

I think based on our division, if we end up in a scenario where Darnold starts most of the season (possible), it's highly likely that pick is in the top 10, maybe top 5 in 2025. I'm not giving that pick up under any circumstances for the 4th rated QB in this draft

From GBN;

We are just kind of spitballing here, but we are starting to get a sense that what happens with the 4th pick overall at this month’s draft could come down to whether Arizona or Minnesota blinks first. As noted earlier, people around the league are now pretty convinced that QBs Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels and Drake Maye will go 1-2-3 to Chicago, Washington and New England, respectively, with the first three picks. At the same time, Arizona has made it pretty clear that with JJ McCarthy still on the board, the 4th pick is there for the taking to any team that ponies up their asking price of what appears to be multiple first round picks. Indeed, not that long ago it appeared that there were as many as 4 teams – the Giants, Minnesota, Denver and Las Vegas – which were interested. However, it now appears that the Giants, who pick 6th, don’t appear to be willing to part with any future #1 picks, while neither Denver nor Vegas, which pick 12th and 13th, are prepared to part with both their 2025 and 2026 first rounders, at least for the 4th rated QB in this draft class. That leaves Minnesota at #11 which still seems very interested. Earlier this week, for example, GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah was quoted as saying that there were a number of QBs that the Vikings were ‘in love with!’ and that they were willing to pay the price which according to reports would include the 11th and 23rd picks this year and their #1 in 2025. At the same time, though, Adofo-Mensah also cautioned that there ‘were also other guys they were in love with if they could get them at a certain value.’ Translated, the Vikings also aren’t going to overpay for the right to move and have some legitimate backup alternatives. If that is in fact the case, and again we’re just speculating here, then there may not be a whole lot of pressure on either team to rush into a deal and if anything gets done it could very well be much closer to the draft. Stay tuned!

Vikings have probably told each team between 4 and 10 (except the Bears) to call them if they get an offer and the Vikings will beat it. But that Bears pick at 9 scares me. I could see the non QB run starting at 4 and staying strong thru pick 8. At 9, the Broncos and Raiders are now in spitting distance and the Bears would love nothing more than to screw the Vikings out of their guy.

MaroonBells wrote:

Vikings have probably told each team between 4 and 10 (except the Bears) to call them if they get an offer and the Vikings will beat it. But that Bears pick at 9 scares me. I could see the non QB run starting at 4 and staying strong thru pick 8. At 9, the Broncos and Raiders are now in spitting distance and the Bears would love nothing more than to screw the Vikings out of their guy.

Or Poles realizes with limited draft picks in this draft, they have an opportunity to really add some talent in THIS draft to go with Caleb Williams and deal with the Vikings completing the Kwesi Trifecta...  :-)

All this conjecture about mortgaging our present and future to go up to #3, 4 or 5 (from 11), makes me ill.
We have no second round pick. We have no third round pick.
All of this talk to move up reminds me so much of the Herschel Walker gift to the Cowboys.
Please Kwesi and KOC, stay the course, fall in love with one of the QBs you can get at 11, and get a beast on IDL at 23. A first round pick theoretically (unless you are Lewis Cine or numerous other first round busts) should be a starter/contributor in the first season. We'd be stronger if we had two immediate contributors vs one.

Minnesota Vikings 2024 draft picks
Round 1: No. 11 overall
Round 1: No. 23 (from Cleveland through Houston)
Round 4: No. 108
Round 4: No. 129 (from Detroit)
Round 5: No. 157 (from Cleveland)
Round 5: No. 167 (from Kansas City)
Round 6: No. 177 (from Carolina through Jacksonville)
Round 7: No. 230 (from Atlanta through Cleveland and Arizona)
Round 7: No. 232 (from Denver through San Francisco and Houston)

Wow, here’s a refresher on the Herschel Walker trade, for those throwing around the trade as a comparison to trading up:  :cool: :P

Really don’t think there’s any real comparison to that debacle…

I am not pounding the table to trading 3 #1's for Maye or Daniels, but if they do? 

I will contend that it's apples/oranges vs the Walker Fleece:

LB Jesse Solomon
RB Darrin Nelson (to Chargers from Cowboys)
LB David Howard
CB Issiac Holt
DE Alex Stewart
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990
Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Solomon)
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Howard)
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Holt)
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (condition met by trading away Nelson)
Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Stewart)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade

If the Vikings hit on a QB via trade? Nobody would give a hoot about trading 3 #1's. If they don't? Everyone will give a hoot lol!

purplefaithful wrote:

If the Vikings hit on a QB via trade? Nobody would give a hoot about trading 3 #1's. If they don't? Everyone will give a hoot lol!

That's exactly it. KOC knows what he's looking for to run his offense. Identify that guy and then go get that guy. Don't settle for a guy you "kinda" like. If they're wrong, so be it. But have the courage of your convictions.

MaroonBells wrote:
I wonder if the Vikings might also be considering trading a player instead of pick 23. Vikings just brought in JC Latham for a visit. Latham is a 1st round RT prospect, which you would think we don't need. Might the Vikings consider trading Brian O'Neill? Latham might also project to guard. Dude's massive at 6-6, 342, but unlike most big guys he has a reputation for zone blocking well.

I really don't think O'Neill would move the needle for many of the teams in the top 3-4 (just based on where they are). I would look at the Latham visit as a deep dive into JJM. They were co-captains I believe at IMG and have a very strong relationship.

I am very torn on JJM...

I am very convinced he wont drop to 11. My gut says he goes to The Giants in a move up to Az or LA.

I wish I had a better sense of where his floor/ceiling are vs Penix/Nix, who would come at a lesser cost.

purplefaithful wrote:
I am very torn on JJM...

I am very convinced he wont drop to 11. My gut says he goes to The Giants in a move up to Az or LA.

I wish I had a better sense of where his floor/ceiling are vs Penix/Nix, who would come at a lesser cost.

Just my take, but the ceiling is pretty high. Whether he hits it or not, he definitely has some Joe Burrow esq traits to his game. More reasonable you're probably looking at an Alex Smith type player. That still is a very solid outcome on a rookie deal. So somewhere in the top 8-12 QB in the league seems reasonable. 

Williams, Maye, Daniels all have top 5 QB upside which is why the conversation is a little different. You should always draft QBs on ceiling which is why the traits matter more than anything else. 

I have both Penix/Nix as lower level starters if not backups. Still value in those players but wouldn't touch either in the top 15 or 20 picks. Might sound crazy but given the cost I would almost prefer taking a shot on Rattler in the 2nd/3rd. At least I can back myself into the argument that his ceiling is higher than Darnold. Can't really get there is Nix. Penix, maybe.

StickierBuns wrote:

This is a point I made about JJM awhile ago: he's well liked by a lot of other college players, not just his own teammates. He's going to make a great leader and captain on whatever team drafts him.

NFL Draft Guru wrote:

Just my take, but the ceiling is pretty high. Whether he hits it or not, he definitely has some Joe Burrow esq traits to his game. More reasonable you're probably looking at an Alex Smith type player. That still is a very solid outcome on a rookie deal. So somewhere in the top 8-12 QB in the league seems reasonable. 

Williams, Maye, Daniels all have top 5 QB upside which is why the conversation is a little different. You should always draft QBs on ceiling which is why the traits matter more than anything else. 

I have both Penix/Nix as lower level starters if not backups. Still value in those players but wouldn't touch either in the top 15 or 20 picks. Might sound crazy but given the cost I would almost prefer taking a shot on Rattler in the 2nd/3rd. At least I can back myself into the argument that his ceiling is higher than Darnold. Can't really get there is Nix. Penix, maybe.

Those are some pretty clear tiers 

I dont want Alex Smith, I want a top 5 qb upside. 

I think we have the nurture @ Eagan to get there with the right QB to start with.

purplefaithful wrote:

Those are some pretty clear tiers 

I dont want Alex Smith, I want a top 5 qb upside. 

I think we have the nurture @ Eagan to get there with the right QB to start with.

In all of that is why its probably so tough to know how this is going to shake out. You need to have a mutual trade partner in the top-3, which may or may not happen. Then you really need to debate how much you really love JJM. If they have a healthy enough opinion that he is a top 10 QB, they'll move up into 4/5 regardless the cost. If they think he is a high-level NFL starter but may need a decent supporting cast (E.G Alex Smith) I tend to think they may sweat it out and see if the Giants take him or not. They'll eventually need to move up for him but getting to 7/8 would not be prohibitive.

NFL Draft Guru wrote:

In all of that is why its probably so tough to know how this is going to shake out. You need to have a mutual trade partner in the top-3, which may or may not happen. Then you really need to debate how much you really love JJM. If they have a healthy enough opinion that he is a top 10 QB, they'll move up into 4/5 regardless the cost. If they think he is a high-level NFL starter but may need a decent supporting cast (E.G Alex Smith) I tend to think they may sweat it out and see if the Giants take him or not. They'll eventually need to move up for him but getting to 7/8 would not be prohibitive.

Agreed, he wont drop to 11.

We've all been talking about Denver, LA and Giants as move-up candidates. I think Seattle is another one.

Assuming they did have a top 3 dance partner, would you prefer it be for Maye or Daniels?
What would you be willing to part with in draft capital for Patriots spot?
What would you be willing to part with in draft capital for JJ @ 4 or 5?
Will u be providing a V 2.0 mock before next week?

NFL Draft Guru wrote:

In all of that is why its probably so tough to know how this is going to shake out. You need to have a mutual trade partner in the top-3, which may or may not happen. Then you really need to debate how much you really love JJM. If they have a healthy enough opinion that he is a top 10 QB, they'll move up into 4/5 regardless the cost. If they think he is a high-level NFL starter but may need a decent supporting cast (E.G Alex Smith) I tend to think they may sweat it out and see if the Giants take him or not. They'll eventually need to move up for him but getting to 7/8 would not be prohibitive.

Guru, your take is one of the most informative I have seen in regard to our first round draft. Thanks much! What is your hope or preference as far as the first round? I'm guessing Maye if they can trade up with NE for the 3rd pick or some smaller trade up for JJM? I guess I'm asking if you see Maye as worth 3 firsts plus (if NE would do it) vs JJM at 7/8 or even 5?

NFL Draft Guru wrote:


I really don't think O'Neill would move the needle for many of the teams in the top 3-4 (just based on where they are). I would look at the Latham visit as a deep dive into JJM. They were co-captains I believe at IMG and have a very strong relationship.

This is a point I made about JJM awhile ago: he's well liked by a lot of other college players, not just his own teammates. He's going to make a great leader and captain on whatever team drafts him.

PurplePastor wrote:

Guru, your take is one of the most informative I have seen in regard to our first round draft. Thanks much! What is your hope or preference as far as the first round? I'm guessing Maye if they can trade up with NE for the 3rd pick or some smaller trade up for JJM? I guess I'm asking if you see Maye as worth 3 firsts plus (if NE would do it) vs JJM at 7/8 or even 5?

I have a really high opinion of Drake Maye so hope they have an opportunity to get up into the top 3 for him, or something crazy happens. I'm also onboard with McCarthy but would only give up 2 total 1st round picks to get up for him. So either 11 & 23 or 11 & a 2025 1st.

purplefaithful wrote:

Agreed, he wont drop to 11.

We've all been talking about Denver, LA and Giants as move-up candidates. I think Seattle is another one.

Assuming they did have a top 3 dance partner, would you prefer it be for Maye or Daniels?
What would you be willing to part with in draft capital for Patriots spot?
What would you be willing to part with in draft capital for JJ @ 4 or 5?
Will u be providing a V 2.0 mock before next week?

I would give up a lot to get up into the top 3. Probably more than the Trey Lance deal. Depending on how you discount picks I'd do 11,23, 2025 1st and a 2026 2nd. Its a lot, but you just don't get cute at QB if you love a prospect. At least if you're denied moving up you have all the proof in the world you got the evaluation correct and did all you could. 

For JJ I wouldn't give up more than 11 & 23. Would swap out one of those picks for a 2025 1st if it were a real difference maker.

Mock V2 will be coming either later this week or early next week!

NFL Draft Guru wrote:

I have a really high opinion of Drake Maye so hope they have an opportunity to get up into the top 3 for him, or something crazy happens. I'm also onboard with McCarthy but would only give up 2 total 1st round picks to get up for him. So either 11 & 23 or 11 & a 2025 1st.

I would give up a lot to get up into the top 3. Probably more than the Trey Lance deal. Depending on how you discount picks I'd do 11,23, 2025 1st and a 2026 2nd. Its a lot, but you just don't get cute at QB if you love a prospect. At least if you're denied moving up you have all the proof in the world you got the evaluation correct and did all you could. 

For JJ I wouldn't give up more than 11 & 23. Would swap out one of those picks for a 2025 1st if it were a real difference maker.

Mock V2 will be coming either later this week or early next week!

Thanks Geoff,

that would be extraordinary if it went down like that for a top 3. I'm game if they are strongly convicted, I think half of Viking nation would lose their collective s hit. 

The 49'ers went into it with the same "dont get cute on a QB you love" attitude and went for it. 

It didnt work out, but they went for it. 

We'll look foward to mock 2.0