Baker On Kyler

When I started looking into Murray as an option long before we signed him, it became clear almost immediately that much of that "lazy" reputation was at the very least exaggerated.

MaroonBells wrote:

https://twitter.com/SleeperVikings/status/2071953875431473606

If it pans out, the value of that contract is one of the best since we picked up Cris Carter for $100 waiver fee.

I guess I don’t really care to dig in too much on if he’s lazy or not as that seems like a bit too much mindreading for my taste. By the end of the year, we’ll probably have a pretty good idea on if he’s performing at a high level or at a frustratingly-mid level.

Regardless, this is a contract year and we should get a little bit of bonus hustle out of him with 10’s of millions of dollars on the line.

medaille wrote:

I guess I don’t really care to dig in too much on if he’s lazy or not as that seems like a bit too much mindreading for my taste. By the end of the year, we’ll probably have a pretty good idea on if he’s performing at a high level or at a frustratingly-mid level.
Regardless, this is a contract year and we should get a little bit of bonus hustle out of him with 10’s of millions of dollars on the line.

I'll assume you realize how much of an upgrade a "frustratingly-mid level" performance would be.

So is it safe to say that maybe the media occasionally blows things out of proportion and that body language isn't always what it's perceived to be? Perception matters, but it isn't the whole story.

I've always thought that was true with Randy Moss. I remember his Thanksgiving Day interview during his rookie season when he barely looked at the camera. My first thought wasn't that he was arrogant; it was that he was shy, guarded, incredibly competitive, and wanted his play to do the talking. From that point on, though, it seemed like everything he did was filtered through the lens of "attitude."

Some of the criticism was deserved. Some wasn't. But over time, we got to know the person better than the headlines. Fast forward to today, and Moss is one of the most respected ambassadors the game has.

I think social media has only amplified this. Every facial expression, every body movement, every five-second clip gets dissected like it's a psychology experiment. We see a glance on the sideline or a short answer in an interview, and suddenly people are writing stories about someone's character.

That's why I tend to put more weight on what teammates and people inside the building say than on hot takes from TV or social media. If Baker Mayfield says Kyler Murray isn't lazy, that carries more weight with me than years of speculation. If Brian O'Neill and A Jones say J.J. McCarthy has the locker room behind him, I'll trust the guys who are with him every day over anonymous reports or fan theories.

None of us have the full picture. We all form opinions, but it's worth remembering that perception and reality aren't always the same thing.

MaroonBells wrote:

I'll assume you realize how much of an upgrade a "frustratingly-mid level" performance would be.

If you compare anything to our QB play last year, it will look amazing by comparison, but by the end of the year, no one is going to care about the “upgrade” if it doesn’t produce a playoff win.  One year of bad QB play isn’t enough to make me desperate for signing a mid-QB long term and jump on that “every other year make the playoffs only to lose the wild card game” train.

medaille wrote:

If you compare anything to our QB play last year, it will look amazing by comparison, but by the end of the year, no one is going to care about the “upgrade” if it doesn’t produce a playoff win.  One year of bad QB play isn’t enough to make me desperate for signing a mid-QB long term and jump on that “every other year make the playoffs only to lose the wild card game” train.

Yes, the vikings were so “desperate” they gave Tai Felton money to a 28-year-old, 2X Pro Bowl QB to help the best WR in the NFL score more than 2 TDs in 17 games. Utter tomfoolery!! 

And what long-term deal are you referring to? One that doesn’t exist? Here’s an idea: how about we wait to see how 2026 plays out before talking about long-term contracts? 

I’m having a hard time believing there are Vikings fans in the world who wanted them to just sit on their hands after what we witnessed last season. 

MaroonBells wrote:

Yes, the vikings were so “desperate” they gave Tai Felton money to a 28-year-old, 2X Pro Bowl QB to help the best WR in the NFL score more than 2 TDs in 17 games. Utter tomfoolery!! 
And what long-term deal are you referring to? One that doesn’t exist? Here’s an idea: how about we wait to see how 2026 plays out before talking about long-term contracts? 
I’m having a hard time believing there are Vikings fans in the world who wanted them to just sit on their hands after what we witnessed last season.

My how this conversation has escalated.  😉

Just to reclarify how I view things:

I like the move to get Murray.  He’s certainly the biggest bargain in the league at this current price, which is only good for this year before he’ll get another contract for 30M+ a year.  I’m glad we have competition.  We certainly need to do better than last year.  I don’t think the first 10 games from JJM is the ceiling for how he’ll perform for the rest of his career.  I think if JJM starts the whole season, he’d be playing at least a tier above his last year stats.  Murray is historically a mid QB.  He’s Kirk Cousins.  He’s Dak Prescott.  He’s Sam Darnold.  You put him with a great coach (I think KOC is good not great) and a great supporting cast (supporting cast should be great) and things should be pretty good.  His playstyle is not KOC’s preferred playstyle.  He’s going to frustrate KOC and JJ with all the plays he leaves on the table.  There’s going to many plays where JJ is streaking down the field wide open and Murray flees the pocket early into a 9 yard sack.  You just hope that he overcomes those negative plays with some backyard heroics.  I think a lot of how well this season goes is going to come down to how much KOC caters his offense to Murray’s playstyle.  I don’t think KOC can repeat what he did last year, where he pretty much threw his normal offense at rookie JJM and watched him sink instead of swim.  If he forces Murray to play the Kirk Cousins/Sam Darnold offense, he’s going to exhibit the same things that caused Arizona to move on from Murray, just hopefully at a mangeable level with our better supporting cast.

But back to this conversation:

Which is about defending Murrays honor from accusations that he’s lazy.  I’m not a mind reader.  I don’t care about labeling Murray as lazy or not lazy.  I don't need to defend his honor. I care if he’s good.  He’s historically been mid with enough flashes to give you hope and lows that make you groan.  How good he is for us will be determined by how well he plays and I’m fine with waiting before judging him.  Hopefully, our superior supporting cast will stay healthy and combine with a KOC scheme that maximizes his QBs’ skillsets and any QB playing for us looks good.

IceRatz16 wrote:

None of us have the full picture. We all form opinions, but it's worth remembering that perception and reality aren't always the same thing.

Everyone has a story...

medaille wrote:

My how this conversation has escalated.  😉
 
Just to reclarify how I view things:
I like the move to get Murray.  He’s certainly the biggest bargain in the league at this current price, which is only good for this year before he’ll get another contract for 30M+ a year.  I’m glad we have competition.  We certainly need to do better than last year.  I don’t think the first 10 games from JJM is the ceiling for how he’ll perform for the rest of his career.  I think if JJM starts the whole season, he’d be playing at least a tier above his last year stats.  Murray is historically a mid QB.  He’s Kirk Cousins.  He’s Dak Prescott.  He’s Sam Darnold.  You put him with a great coach (I think KOC is good not great) and a great supporting cast (supporting cast should be great) and things should be pretty good.  His playstyle is not KOC’s preferred playstyle.  He’s going to frustrate KOC and JJ with all the plays he leaves on the table.  There’s going to many plays where JJ is streaking down the field wide open and Murray flees the pocket early into a 9 yard sack.  You just hope that he overcomes those negative plays with some backyard heroics.  I think a lot of how well this season goes is going to come down to how much KOC caters his offense to Murray’s playstyle.  I don’t think KOC can repeat what he did last year, where he pretty much threw his normal offense at rookie JJM and watched him sink instead of swim.  If he forces Murray to play the Kirk Cousins/Sam Darnold offense, he’s going to exhibit the same things that caused Arizona to move on from Murray, just hopefully at a mangeable level with our better supporting cast.
 
But back to this conversation:
Which is about defending Murrays honor from accusations that he’s lazy.  I’m not a mind reader.  I don’t care about labeling Murray as lazy or not lazy.  I don't need to defend his honor. I care if he’s good.  He’s historically been mid with enough flashes to give you hope and lows that make you groan.  How good he is for us will be determined by how well he plays and I’m fine with waiting before judging him.  Hopefully, our superior supporting cast will stay healthy and combine with a KOC scheme that maximizes his QBs’ skillsets and any QB playing for us looks good.

Defend his honor? OK, Inigo Montoya.

I hope you’re right; I hope he is Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott or Sam Darnold. Prescott won the passing title last year and Darnold won the Super Bowl. Either one would be a massive upgrade and give us a real chance to compete for a title. So if that's who you think Murray is, why the resistance? 

MaroonBells wrote:

Defend his honor? OK, Inigo Montoya.
I hope you’re right; I hope he is Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott or Sam Darnold. Prescott won the passing title last year and Darnold won the Super Bowl. Either one would be a massive upgrade and give us a real chance to compete for a title. So if that's who you think Murray is, why the resistance?

I don't see this as resistance. I think being cautiously optimistic is a perfectly acceptable outlook on this season. I just don't need to go full chub for Kyler. Regarding mid QBs, we as a community have had this conversation many times. Mid QBs are a low probability to win a SB. I like that Kyler raises our floor, but the odds of us winning a SB this year aren't great. They're probably pretty similar to 2024, where it's likely that we'll beat up on bad teams in a 3rd place schedule, but can we survive a gauntlet of playoff caliber teams? A lot will have to go right.

medaille wrote:

I don't see this as resistance. I think being cautiously optimistic is a perfectly acceptable outlook on this season. I just don't need to go full chub for Kyler. Regarding mid QBs, we as a community have had this conversation many times. Mid QBs are a low probability to win a SB. I like that Kyler raises our floor, but the odds of us winning a SB this year aren't great. They're probably pretty similar to 2024, where it's likely that we'll beat up on bad teams in a 3rd place schedule, but can we survive a gauntlet of playoff caliber teams? A lot will have to go right.

It's just the Kyler Murribators. People have this idea he will be MVP, win us our first Lombardi, and be the second coming of Brady himself. All because of how good our offense is. I mean, let's just look past his 14-28 record from November on his career. That should tell you a lot. Multiple games lost due to his mistakes and not being able to lead the team to the win. There is reason to question any of it.