Quote: @Canthony said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ StickyBun said:
Not sure how you can't see Brady as the GOAT, IMO. 6 Superbowl rings. 9 Superbowl appearances. 6-3 record in Superbowls. Its staggering.
Bradshaw and Montana were both 4-0 and were instrumental in those wins. Versus the Rams, Brady was along for the ride. Each of his SBs were decided by a single score IIRC. He could easily be 0-9.
But he isn't and he has 6 rings. Brady never had Rice to throw the ball to or Craig to hand the ball off to and had an offense that was just coming into its own that the league was adjusting to it.
Brady is the GOAT and Brees and Manning are close behind him IMO.
IMO Brees and Manning are quite a ways behind Brady. Manning was a regular season god who was usually surrounded by tremendous talent on offense but often fell apart in the postseason, and Brees has started to seem the same way.
The biggest difference with Brady is that he gets better as the lights get brighter.
I kinda agree with Barr. I think this is very much a debatable topic. I'm not even convinced Brady is the Greatest QB of all time let alone the GOAT NFL player.
If Super Bowl victories are your measuring stick than I guess Patterson is a better WR than Moss. Both played with Hoodie and Brady but yet only one has a ring.
Manning took 4 different head coaches and 2 different teams to the Super Bowl and got two of them the trophy. Manning has won League MVP 5 times to Brady's 3, while playing head to head(meaning at the same time in the same conference). So Manning was voted superior at his position 5 times while Brady's team were winning Super Bowls. Brady has never, never had to learn under a different system and the difficulties that go with that. Not his fault, but most people would agree that being able to produce at a high level under different circumstances is better than producing the same results without change, wouldn't they?
I don't think it's a clear open and shut case.
Quote: @SFVikingFan said:
@ Canthony said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ StickyBun said:
Not sure how you can't see Brady as the GOAT, IMO. 6 Superbowl rings. 9 Superbowl appearances. 6-3 record in Superbowls. Its staggering.
Bradshaw and Montana were both 4-0 and were instrumental in those wins. Versus the Rams, Brady was along for the ride. Each of his SBs were decided by a single score IIRC. He could easily be 0-9.
But he isn't and he has 6 rings. Brady never had Rice to throw the ball to or Craig to hand the ball off to and had an offense that was just coming into its own that the league was adjusting to it.
Brady is the GOAT and Brees and Manning are close behind him IMO.
IMO Brees and Manning are quite a ways behind Brady. Manning was a regular season god who was usually surrounded by tremendous talent on offense but often fell apart in the postseason, and Brees has started to seem the same way.
The biggest difference with Brady is that he gets better as the lights get brighter.
That wasn't the case though this year with Brady. He didn't play well and didn't even throw for a TD. Granted, this was a huge game of defense and no one played well on offense.
I do agree that in general that Brady steps up and plays his best when it counts.
Quote: @SFVikingFan said:
@ Canthony said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ StickyBun said:
Not sure how you can't see Brady as the GOAT, IMO. 6 Superbowl rings. 9 Superbowl appearances. 6-3 record in Superbowls. Its staggering.
Bradshaw and Montana were both 4-0 and were instrumental in those wins. Versus the Rams, Brady was along for the ride. Each of his SBs were decided by a single score IIRC. He could easily be 0-9.
But he isn't and he has 6 rings. Brady never had Rice to throw the ball to or Craig to hand the ball off to and had an offense that was just coming into its own that the league was adjusting to it.
Brady is the GOAT and Brees and Manning are close behind him IMO.
IMO Brees and Manning are quite a ways behind Brady. Manning was a regular season god who was usually surrounded by tremendous talent on offense but often fell apart in the postseason, and Brees has started to seem the same way.
The biggest difference with Brady is that he gets better as the lights get brighter.
If that were true why does Manning have a 3-2 record vs Brady in the AFCCG?
Quote: @Bezerker88 said:
I kinda agree with Barr. I think this is very much a debatable topic. I'm not even convinced Brady is the Greatest QB of all time let alone the GOAT NFL player.
If Super Bowl victories are your measuring stick than I guess Patterson is a better WR than Moss. Both played with Hoodie and Brady but yet only one has a ring.
Manning took 4 different head coaches and 2 different teams to the Super Bowl and got two of them the trophy. Manning has won League MVP 5 times to Brady's 3, while playing head to head(meaning at the same time in the same conference). So Manning was voted superior at his position 5 times while Brady's team were winning Super Bowls. Brady has never, never had to learn under a different system and the difficulties that go with that. Not his fault, but most people would agree that being able to produce at a high level under different circumstances is better than producing the same results without change, wouldn't they?
I don't think it's a clear open and shut case.
As with anything sports, it is very debatable. That is the nature of the question, purely subjective.
The red herring of Patterson/Moss aside, it isn't just superbowl victories. CP has 1. Lots of bit players have 1. Some bit players have a SB MVP (Larry Brown?). But to be in the SB 50% of the time for a career, let alone an 18 year career. To have as many rings as the other leading franchises.
Manning is up there as well. A very cerebral QB as well and played at an elite level for a long time. His last superbowl win was purely along for the ride as that defense won the game. Got his ass kicked by Seattle prior to that.
Dunno, most NFL players will tell you to enjoy the superbowl cuz most likely you will never get back there. Unless you are Tom Brady. Then it is a 50/50 chance.
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
Brady has 1 TD pass in two Super Bowl wins vs the Rams...
He also has a 505 yard passing with 3 TDs and no interceptions 115 QB rating and lost a Superbowl game. If he is not the Greatest of all Time. Then who is?
Quote: @Bezerker88 said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ Canthony said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ StickyBun said:
Not sure how you can't see Brady as the GOAT, IMO. 6 Superbowl rings. 9 Superbowl appearances. 6-3 record in Superbowls. Its staggering.
Bradshaw and Montana were both 4-0 and were instrumental in those wins. Versus the Rams, Brady was along for the ride. Each of his SBs were decided by a single score IIRC. He could easily be 0-9.
But he isn't and he has 6 rings. Brady never had Rice to throw the ball to or Craig to hand the ball off to and had an offense that was just coming into its own that the league was adjusting to it.
Brady is the GOAT and Brees and Manning are close behind him IMO.
IMO Brees and Manning are quite a ways behind Brady. Manning was a regular season god who was usually surrounded by tremendous talent on offense but often fell apart in the postseason, and Brees has started to seem the same way.
The biggest difference with Brady is that he gets better as the lights get brighter.
If that were true why does Manning have a 3-2 record vs Brady in the AFCCG?
Tom Brady has a 30-10 (.750) record in the postseason over his career, with almost twice as many wins as the next highest QB ever (Montana with 16).
Peyton Manning had a 14-13 (.519) record in the postseason.
Brady is also 6-3 in Super Bowls, where Manning was 2-2 (and he was carried to his last SB win by the Broncos defense).
Quote: @SFVikingFan said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ Canthony said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ StickyBun said:
Not sure how you can't see Brady as the GOAT, IMO. 6 Superbowl rings. 9 Superbowl appearances. 6-3 record in Superbowls. Its staggering.
Bradshaw and Montana were both 4-0 and were instrumental in those wins. Versus the Rams, Brady was along for the ride. Each of his SBs were decided by a single score IIRC. He could easily be 0-9.
But he isn't and he has 6 rings. Brady never had Rice to throw the ball to or Craig to hand the ball off to and had an offense that was just coming into its own that the league was adjusting to it.
Brady is the GOAT and Brees and Manning are close behind him IMO.
IMO Brees and Manning are quite a ways behind Brady. Manning was a regular season god who was usually surrounded by tremendous talent on offense but often fell apart in the postseason, and Brees has started to seem the same way.
The biggest difference with Brady is that he gets better as the lights get brighter.
If that were true why does Manning have a 3-2 record vs Brady in the AFCCG?
Tom Brady has a 30-10 (.750) record in the postseason over his career, with almost twice as many wins as the next highest QB ever (Montana with 16).
Peyton Manning had a 14-13 (.519) record in the postseason.
Brady is also 6-3 in Super Bowls, where Manning was 2-2 (and he was carried to his last SB win by the Broncos defense).
Fairly sure the Brady got a Super Bowl on a goal line INT from his defense, didn't he if you want to put * next to Super Bowl wins... I'm sure there's plenty to talk about with the Pats....
Quote: @Bezerker88 said:
I kinda agree with Barr. I think this is very much a debatable topic. I'm not even convinced Brady is the Greatest QB of all time let alone the GOAT NFL player.
If Super Bowl victories are your measuring stick than I guess Patterson is a better WR than Moss. Both played with Hoodie and Brady but yet only one has a ring.
Manning took 4 different head coaches and 2 different teams to the Super Bowl and got two of them the trophy. Manning has won League MVP 5 times to Brady's 3, while playing head to head(meaning at the same time in the same conference). So Manning was voted superior at his position 5 times while Brady's team were winning Super Bowls. Brady has never, never had to learn under a different system and the difficulties that go with that. Not his fault, but most people would agree that being able to produce at a high level under different circumstances is better than producing the same results without change, wouldn't they?
I don't think it's a clear open and shut case.
The case could be argued that why would manning have had so many coaches to learn under if he was the goat? Wouldn't he have done enough to keep the first coach or two and retired from that first team?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Bezerker88 said:
I kinda agree with Barr. I think this is very much a debatable topic. I'm not even convinced Brady is the Greatest QB of all time let alone the GOAT NFL player.
If Super Bowl victories are your measuring stick than I guess Patterson is a better WR than Moss. Both played with Hoodie and Brady but yet only one has a ring.
Manning took 4 different head coaches and 2 different teams to the Super Bowl and got two of them the trophy. Manning has won League MVP 5 times to Brady's 3, while playing head to head(meaning at the same time in the same conference). So Manning was voted superior at his position 5 times while Brady's team were winning Super Bowls. Brady has never, never had to learn under a different system and the difficulties that go with that. Not his fault, but most people would agree that being able to produce at a high level under different circumstances is better than producing the same results without change, wouldn't they?
I don't think it's a clear open and shut case.
The case could be argued that why would manning have had so many coaches to learn under if he was the goat? Wouldn't he have done enough to keep the first coach or two and retired from that first team?
Could be argued,.. it would be lost... but yes it could be argued. So now, not only does the GOAT have to have multiple Super Bowl Trophies, they need to play(or have played) for only one team and coach their entire career? Why not just add in - and their initials need to be T.B. and the team they played for needs to be the Patriots?
In my opinion greatness shines no matter where it is. It doesn't need a controlled setting in order to be great. It's great by itself. The only QB that has achieved the goal that is every NFL QB's goal each season, under different settings is Peyton Manning. He's won the Super Bowl trophy with different teams. He also won the League MVP while playing for different teams... I think he is the only player to do that too.
A person cannot say for sure that Tom Brady would have the record he has IF he had to change teams and leave Hoodie's system, no one knows for sure if it's Tom or the system he plays in. Manning's greatness followed him where ever he played to provide evidence of his greatness. The Bronco's had 6 seasons of 9 wins or less before Manning signed and he lifted them to 13-3, 13-3, 12-4 and 12-4. The Bronco's went right back to no double digit win seaons after he left... with 9-7, 5-11 and 6-10 seasons.
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