The Athletic: KOC doubles down on himself

[IceRatz16]

Bah....I been saying the same thing for weeks. Do I have to quote Lizzo to get any respect around here? 

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I don't think this is true either. I just think the Vikings think he needs more time..more coaching, more development, more maturity. But it would not at all surprise me if in a couple years McCarthy ends up being one of the better QBs in the league. I just hope he's still wearing purple at the time.

Haha...If Lizzo quotes are your play for credibility, I think the result might land a little further from your intended target....  

[Vikergirl]

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Good read and despite what some say, I think he's a good coach and I like his track record with QB's.

But...

1). I would not have gone live with this if I ran The Athletic till (if) Murray is a done deal in MN.
2). I take umbrage with this:

Despite a dramatic debut last September, J.J. McCarthy, the 10th selection in the 2024 draft, clearly isn’t regarded (by O’Connell or anyone else) as the Vikings’ long-term answer at the position.

I dont think anyone knows this is how KOC or the Vikings feel about JJM...I dont think thats true tbh.

The sample size is too small to make a determination but there is always one writer that is going for the attention grab take.

[StickierBuns]

Bah....I been saying the same thing for weeks. Do I have to quote Lizzo to get any respect around here? 

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I don't think this is true either. I just think the Vikings think he needs more time..more coaching, more development, more maturity. But it would not at all surprise me if in a couple years McCarthy ends up being one of the better QBs in the league. I just hope he's still wearing purple at the time.

I guess its 'Bad Bitch O'clock' when Kyler shows up...don't get me started on Lizzo, I have a whole Pandora channel dedicated to her and the algorithm.

One last complaint. So THIS is what KOC is staking his reputation on? Okey dokey. An excerpt from this story:

"He has absorbed a healthy share of scrutiny and criticism, some of it self-inflicted. In a 2021 New York Times profile, Murray leaned into his reputation for not being a grinder, saying, “I think I was blessed with the cognitive skills to just go out there and just see it before it happens. I’m not one of those guys that’s going to sit there and kill myself watching film. I don’t sit there for 24 hours and break down this team and that team and watch every game because, in my head, I see so much.”

The next spring, Murray engaged in a messy contract fight that ended up further damaging his reputation, unless the goal was to impress fellow video-game aficionados. Murray’s five-year, $230.5 million contract included an “independent study addendum” requiring him to review four hours of game film per week on his own time.

The Cardinals later removed the clause in the face of public backlash, but they’d obviously put it in there for a reason, and the damage was done. As one Arizona veteran told me the following January, near the end of a miserable 4-13 season, “It was like they created a monster.” Once paid, the veteran said, Murray felt less pressure to study or behave like a typical franchise quarterback, and the disastrous campaign that followed felt predictable.

It’s tough to predict exactly how Murray’s second act will play out".

[MaroonBells]

I'll say this and echo what I said before if Murray signs: its the beginning of the end of JJ McCarthy in Minnesota. Its a shame IMO. KOC has decided that JJM isnt the QB of the future for the Vikings. Murray is being brought in to be QB1, that's obvious. I'm not going to repeat ad nauseam the whys of it, everyone on the board has read those from me.

If you want to applaud KOC for 'taking a big swing' like Silver does, great....but I don't want to hear again how 'organizations fail QBs' not the other way around from O'Connell. I do believe KOC is The King right now organizationally after KAM's departure, so he deserves to do things his way. I just don't personally agree at all with this direction, but that and $5.00 will get you a Starbucks coffee.

[StickierBuns]

[pattersaur]

I'm not convinced this is the beginning of the end of JJM in MN...Least I hope not.

Lets see if this Murray thing even goes down, it aint a done deal till it is - just ask The Ravens.

Lets hear all the word salads if it does happen. Then I think we'll have more to go on.

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I REALLY BELIEVE KOC knew JJM wasn't ready last year. 

My take is that he wanted to keep Sammy or Dimes...Kam squashed it by holding hard on rook contract at QB. Probably caused they just spent $300mm in FA. 

They let Sam walk then fumbled badly on Dimes...

We didnt realize it as fans at the time, thinking 25 was a natural progression from 24 - and it wasn't. Not at all

Agreed with the purple. Sam Howell never made sense as a backup for a 21-year old kid. Seems more like we brought him in as a sad Hail Mary kick-the-tires CYA move to see if he could start some games while JJ curates. Now it's 9 months later and coach still doesn't think he's ready.

I'm okay with all of that because my bull case for JJM was always based around my faith in KO, and he was saying JJM is our Franchise Guy. I was fired up. Fans were fired up. We believed. Then the on-field results were mediocre. Then the team had to pivot to Brosmer and suddenly the staff was saying Brosmer is Tom Brady coming in to replace Bledsoe. Then the on-field results were disastrous. That was a big red flag I gotta admit but I wanted to ignore it.

If the team still believes JJM can start and win a lot of games for us, they have a very odd way of conveying it.

[MAD GAINZ]

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I REALLY BELIEVE KOC knew JJM wasn't ready last year. 

My take is that he wanted to keep Sammy or Dimes...Kam squashed it by holding hard on rook contract at QB. Probably caused they just spent $300mm in FA. 

They let Sam walk then fumbled badly on Dimes...

We didnt realize it as fans at the time, thinking 25 was a natural progression from 24 - and it wasn't. Not at all

That is what I heard last off-season from a birdie.  KOC wanted to keep Darnold around because of his success here and the fact that JJM missed most of his rookie season with the meniscus injury. He wanted to give him more time. FO won that debate and wanted to build the team up around a rookie contract instead of paying Darnold.  The FO plan was to retain Daniel Jones as the veteran competition for JJM, but Kwesi badly misread how interested Daniel Jones was in returning.  When he left for Indy, it basically forced the Vikings to start JJ McCarthy.  I think most of the frustration from KOC was seeing that JJM wasn't quite ready and knowing he was right and the FO was wrong. I don't think his frustration is tied to anything ability wise, it's purely he wanted him to have a chance to develop more.

[StickierBuns]

This from Alec Lewis at The Athletic on Barreiro’s show this morning. Just what I’ve been saying, number one it’s no competition and number two this is going to be the end for JJ McCarthy‘s future with the team. Doesn’t mean it’s this year or next year but no more quarterback of the future. If its true that personnel people on NFL teams are saying that Kyler is a 'major upgrade', then JJM is toast. Straight up fact. They are seeing the video, the tape and have the true inside info. I guess we'll see.

Alec_Lewis expands with @DanBarreiroKFAN on @KFAN1003.

“I've had multiple people, director, personnel, level of people within the league say to me, since the Kyler conversations emerged, like, this would be a major upgrade for the Vikings. That's how others would perceive it and view it. So it does, the obvious question, if this does come to fruition, which is the expectation, is what then happens with J.J. McCarthy? And I mean, you go down many roads there. One would be, I don't believe, right now, he and his representation, Brian Ayrault of WME, have much leverage with the situation. The Vikings obviously would also have to weigh just that dynamics from a personality fit within the QB room, the future from that standpoint. But if you are signing Kyler Murray, a guy who has accomplished what he's accomplished, to sell it as a QB competition, I mean, it's a really lofty attempt at trying to do that, in my opinion.”

[comet52]

This from Alec Lewis at The Athletic on Barreiro’s show this morning. Just what I’ve been saying, number one it’s no competition and number two this is going to be the end for JJ McCarthy‘s future with the team. Doesn’t mean it’s this year or next year but no more quarterback of the future. If its true that personnel people on NFL teams are saying that Kyler is a 'major upgrade', then JJM is toast. Straight up fact. They are seeing the video, the tape and have the true inside info. I guess we'll see.

Alec_Lewis expands with @DanBarreiroKFAN on @KFAN1003.

“I've had multiple people, director, personnel, level of people within the league say to me, since the Kyler conversations emerged, like, this would be a major upgrade for the Vikings. That's how others would perceive it and view it. So it does, the obvious question, if this does come to fruition, which is the expectation, is what then happens with J.J. McCarthy? And I mean, you go down many roads there. One would be, I don't believe, right now, he and his representation, Brian Ayrault of WME, have much leverage with the situation. The Vikings obviously would also have to weigh just that dynamics from a personality fit within the QB room, the future from that standpoint. But if you are signing Kyler Murray, a guy who has accomplished what he's accomplished, to sell it as a QB competition, I mean, it's a really lofty attempt at trying to do that, in my opinion.”

I would say it's gone wrong here for JJM in so many ways I don't want to take the time to list them all, but in light of that it would make sense for the Vikings to let his agent find a situation where he can make a fresh start in exchange for a low end draft pick to the Vikings.

[StickierBuns]

I would say it's gone wrong here for JJM in so many ways I don't want to take the time to list them all, but in light of that it would make sense for the Vikings to let his agent find a situation where he can make a fresh start in exchange for a low end draft pick to the Vikings.

That's not going to happen this year, zero way. If Kyler gets hurt at some point, JJ comes in and lights it up, he's now got some leverage. Either commit to me or trade me to someone that will. There's all kinds of potential upside for him to put his head down and compete THIS year because odds are he's going to get into a couple games or so. And this all assumes Kyler Murray plays really well, that's first and foremost. If he stinks the first 3 weeks, the fans...being the fickle little bitches they are, will be chanting for McCarthy to come in. 

He's a penny stock right now......staying in Minnesota at least this year could get him to NASDAQ status. But the only way out is if Murray gets injured because he's not the QBOTF the minute Murray signs.

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That is what I heard last off-season from a birdie.  KOC wanted to keep Darnold around because of his success here and the fact that JJM missed most of his rookie season with the meniscus injury. He wanted to give him more time. FO won that debate and wanted to build the team up around a rookie contract instead of paying Darnold.  The FO plan was to retain Daniel Jones as the veteran competition for JJM, but Kwesi badly misread how interested Daniel Jones was in returning.  When he left for Indy, it basically forced the Vikings to start JJ McCarthy.  I think most of the frustration from KOC was seeing that JJM wasn't quite ready and knowing he was right and the FO was wrong. I don't think his frustration is tied to anything ability wise, it's purely he wanted him to have a chance to develop more.

Makes sense. But what he's doing now is going to change the dynamic for the short and long term if he doesn't hit Yahtzee on Kyler Murray.