I agree, not a big fan of PFF grades

[greediron]

32 of 32 NFL teams subscribe to PFF. They’re doing something right.

Teams admit it is a baseline, especially for certain positions.  But o-line, d-line, they just don't know the assignments so they are way off.

[StickierBuns]

Pat McAfee
@PatMcAfeeShow
·
1h
"I've had my issues with PFF for a very long time and I was their number one rated player..

They literally had to change their system because of me and I still hate it..

PFF has a lot of very beneficial tools but they've gotta stop grading players" ~
@JJWatt
#PMSLive

https://twitter.com/i/status/1978501092838080948

[JustInTime]

It’s imperfect, no question.

But, until there’s another analytics tool available to the public that is used by all 32 teams, it’s what we have. Don’t like their content or approach, don’t use them as a basis for analysis. 

Me, I think there’s merit in something used by an entire industry.

[StickierBuns]

It’s imperfect, no question.

But, until there’s another analytics tool available to the public that is used by all 32 teams, it’s what we have. Don’t like their content or approach, don’t use them as a basis for analysis. 

Me, I think there’s merit in something used by an entire industry.

I think its mostly the grading that gets criticized....that's its the least accurate product they have and it gets posted during live NFL broadcasts as gospel. Players get their panties in a bunch over it I guess. Watt mentions and recognizes that other parts have value.

[comet52]

The teams buy data and analysis from PFF that isn't available to the general public.  They don't care about the grades and aren't buying them, heck you can get them for free just scouring the net midweek with a chatbot these days.

I've said it before but it bears repeating - the grades are a front-facing product designed to capture eyeballs.  A marketing tool if you will.  Keeping football fans arguing about PFF grades is good business for PFF.

[StickierBuns]

The teams buy data and analysis from PFF that isn't available to the general public.  They don't care about the grades and aren't buying them, heck you can get them for free just scouring the net midweek with a chatbot these days.

I've said it before but it bears repeating - the grades are a front-facing product designed to capture eyeballs.  A marketing tool if you will.  Keeping football fans arguing about PFF grades is good business for PFF.

Yep. And why I put in the Subject Heading: 'grades'. Its 100% a marketing ploy for the fans that are buying this product. The teams understand its garbage.

[MaroonBells]

Yep. And why I put in the Subject Heading: 'grades'. Its 100% a marketing ploy for the fans that are buying this product. The teams understand its garbage.

WTF? Why would you say that? All 32 teams use it, but they all know it's garbage? Got it.

This whole PFF thing has gone way overboard. Their methodology requires that two analysts isolate and evaluate every snap of every player. Those two evaluations are then reviewed by a senior analyst who approves the final grade. This happens for every single player. Many analysts are former NFL players and coaches so they do have a basic understanding of likely assignments. Is it perfect? Of course not. Is it flawed. Of course it is. But is it generally more accurate than listening to Joe Don Dumbfuck on his couch in Ding Dong, TX pointing out the left guard missed a block? Yeah, probably. 

If there were major, widespread problems with it, you'd find PFF grades not at all aligning with post-season awards, contracts and released players. And yet they do. PFF is like the Pro Bowl or the Nobel or the Oscars. If it doesn't align with what YOU personally believe, you think it's garbage...or rigged. So sick of that bullshit.

[StickierBuns]

WTF? Why would you say that? All 32 teams use it, but they all know it's garbage? Got it.

This whole PFF thing has gone way overboard. Their methodology requires that two analysts isolate and evaluate every snap of every player. Those two evaluations are then reviewed by a senior analyst who approves the final grade. This happens for every single player. Many analysts are former NFL players and coaches so they do have a basic understanding of likely assignments. Is it perfect? Of course not. Is it flawed. Of course it is. But is it generally more accurate than listening to Joe Don Dumbfuck on his couch in Ding Dong, TX pointing out the left guard missed a block? Yeah, probably. 

If there were major, widespread problems with it, you'd find PFF grades not at all aligning with post-season awards, contracts and released players. And yet they do. PFF is like the Pro Bowl or the Nobel or the Oscars. If it doesn't align with what YOU personally believe, you think it's garbage...or rigged. So sick of that bullshit.

The grading. The grades....especially of offensive linemen. Defensive linemen. That's where the player criticism comes from. This is coming from NFL players, not from me. You ok? lol, this is what I meant when I say some get very thin skinned when its criticized. There are two examples of player criticism just in this thread, its not beyond reproach. Its how they grade, I think the rationale doesn't always line up with the reality if you don't know what play was called.

[MaroonBells]

The grading. The grades....especially of offensive linemen. Defensive linemen. That's where the player criticism comes from. This is coming from NFL players, not from me. You ok? lol, this is what I meant when I say some get very thin skinned when its criticized. There are two examples of player criticism just in this thread, its not beyond reproach. Its how they grade, I think the rationale doesn't always line up with the reality if you don't know what play was called.

Of course NFL players are going to criticize it. Do they criticize Pro Bowl votes? do they criticize MVP voting? Do they criticize all evaluations not done by their mothers? Yes. But you’re arguing with ghosts. There's not anyone among fans or teams who think of it as the end-all, be-all of player evaluation. It’s just one resource among many.

But I thought I'd ask Grok its thoughts on the matter. There's nothing here either one of us should disagree with...

Why You Might Trust PFF Grades:

* Detailed Analysis: PFF grades every player on every play, using a proprietary system that evaluates performance in specific roles (e.g., run-blocking, pass-rushing). This granular approach provides insights beyond basic stats like yards or touchdowns.
* Consistency: PFF’s methodology is standardized across games, aiming to remove subjective bias by focusing on execution rather than outcomes (e.g., a dropped pass doesn’t penalize the QB’s throw).
* Contextual Metrics: They offer advanced stats like "passer rating when pressured" or "yards after contact," which give deeper context than traditional box scores.
* Scouting Utility: NFL teams and analysts use PFF data for scouting and game planning, suggesting some level of professional trust.

Why You Should Be Skeptical:
* Subjectivity in Grading: Despite claims of objectivity, graders interpret plays, and human bias can creep in. For example, a "good" block might be graded differently by different analysts.
* Context Gaps: PFF grades don’t always account for scheme, play calls, or teammate performance. A lineman might grade poorly if the play design fails, not because of his execution.
* Overreliance on Numbers: Fans sometimes treat PFF grades as gospel, ignoring intangibles like leadership or situational awareness that stats can’t capture.
* Limited Transparency: PFF’s exact grading formula isn’t public, making it hard to fully validate their process.
* Sample Size Issues: Early-season grades or single-game scores can be noisy, especially for players with limited snaps.
What the Web and X Say:
* Posts on X show mixed sentiment. Some fans praise PFF for highlighting under-the-radar players (e.g., a 2023 post noted PFF grades helped identify breakout stars like Puka Nacua). Others mock PFF for grades that clash with eye-test evaluations, like when a star player gets a low score after a visibly strong game. Web discussions (e.g., Reddit, football blogs) often echo this: PFF is a tool, not a definitive truth. A 2024 Athletic article noted that while NFL teams use PFF, they cross-reference it with internal analytics and film study, not as a standalone metric.

Should You Trust Them?
Don’t trust PFF grades blindly, but don’t dismiss them either. They’re best used as one data point alongside film, traditional stats, and context like team scheme or opponent quality. If you’re debating a player’s performance, check PFF’s signature stats (e.g., pass-rush win rate) for specific insights, but always consider the bigger picture. For casual fans, PFF can highlight trends, but for diehards, watching tape is still king.

[StickierBuns]

Of course NFL players are going to criticize it. Do they criticize Pro Bowl votes? do they criticize MVP voting? Do they criticize all evaluations not done by their mothers? Yes. But you’re arguing with ghosts. There's not anyone among fans or teams who think of it as the end-all, be-all of player evaluation. It’s just one resource among many.

But I thought I'd ask Grok its thoughts on the matter. There's nothing here either one of us should disagree with...

Why You Might Trust PFF Grades:

* Detailed Analysis: PFF grades every player on every play, using a proprietary system that evaluates performance in specific roles (e.g., run-blocking, pass-rushing). This granular approach provides insights beyond basic stats like yards or touchdowns.
* Consistency: PFF’s methodology is standardized across games, aiming to remove subjective bias by focusing on execution rather than outcomes (e.g., a dropped pass doesn’t penalize the QB’s throw).
* Contextual Metrics: They offer advanced stats like "passer rating when pressured" or "yards after contact," which give deeper context than traditional box scores.
* Scouting Utility: NFL teams and analysts use PFF data for scouting and game planning, suggesting some level of professional trust.

Why You Should Be Skeptical:
* Subjectivity in Grading: Despite claims of objectivity, graders interpret plays, and human bias can creep in. For example, a "good" block might be graded differently by different analysts.
* Context Gaps: PFF grades don’t always account for scheme, play calls, or teammate performance. A lineman might grade poorly if the play design fails, not because of his execution.
* Overreliance on Numbers: Fans sometimes treat PFF grades as gospel, ignoring intangibles like leadership or situational awareness that stats can’t capture.
* Limited Transparency: PFF’s exact grading formula isn’t public, making it hard to fully validate their process.
* Sample Size Issues: Early-season grades or single-game scores can be noisy, especially for players with limited snaps.
What the Web and X Say:
* Posts on X show mixed sentiment. Some fans praise PFF for highlighting under-the-radar players (e.g., a 2023 post noted PFF grades helped identify breakout stars like Puka Nacua). Others mock PFF for grades that clash with eye-test evaluations, like when a star player gets a low score after a visibly strong game. Web discussions (e.g., Reddit, football blogs) often echo this: PFF is a tool, not a definitive truth. A 2024 Athletic article noted that while NFL teams use PFF, they cross-reference it with internal analytics and film study, not as a standalone metric.

Should You Trust Them?
Don’t trust PFF grades blindly, but don’t dismiss them either. They’re best used as one data point alongside film, traditional stats, and context like team scheme or opponent quality. If you’re debating a player’s performance, check PFF’s signature stats (e.g., pass-rush win rate) for specific insights, but always consider the bigger picture. For casual fans, PFF can highlight trends, but for diehards, watching tape is still king.

Yep, right on. This seems spot on.