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medaille · 10-09-2025, 12:30 PM

I’m always down for drafting a high caliber QB prospect. I wouldn’t trade a bunch of picks for one, but if one is available wherever we pick, by all means.

I don’t think that means giving up on JJM, as I believe in competition rather than quitting on a guy early. I’d much rather have two guys in the pipeline than none.

StickierBuns · 10-09-2025, 12:32 PM

(10-09-2025, 12:30 PM)medaille Wrote: I don’t think that means giving up on JJM, as I believe in competition rather than quitting on a guy early. I’d much rather have two guys in the pipeline than none.

Pipeline Guy #2:

[Image: BUS_20251005_BUS_503630_max-brosmer.webp...height=740]

MyIdaho · 10-09-2025, 12:59 PM

Christian Ponder was a first round pick that was given three years, mostly as a starter. I believe the Vikings will give JJM at least 3 years as well and expect that he will clearly outperform Christian Ponder's first 3 years. JJM will have better coaching, better receivers, and hopefully an improved OL.

Greylock · (This post was last modified: 10-09-2025, 01:08 PM by Greylock.)

I think sometimes the quarterbacks that get drafted in the 1st round and had a good college career may have the attitude that what worked in college will now work in the NFL. They don't have the knowledge that they need to keep working hard and learning how to succeed at the next level.

medaille · (This post was last modified: 10-09-2025, 01:35 PM by medaille.)

(10-09-2025, 01:07 PM)Greylock Wrote: I think sometimes the quarterbacks that get drafted in the 1st round and had a good college career may have the attitude that what worked in college will now work in the NFL. They don't have the knowledge that they need to keep working hard and learning how to succeed at the next level.

Also they might not have the desire once they get a fat bank account.

(10-09-2025, 12:32 PM)StickierBuns Wrote: Pipeline Guy #2:

Could be.

StickierBuns · 10-09-2025, 01:38 PM

(10-09-2025, 01:33 PM)medaille Wrote: Also they might not have the desire once they get a fat bank account.

Could be.

The main reason you can't keep drafting QBs under your theory is there's only so many snaps: QB1 gets the majority, QB2 much less and QB3 basically none. And during the regular season, QB1 is all the staff focuses on. JJ got an hour of KOC's time per week last year during the regular season, he's trying to win games with QB1 (Darnold in this case). You'd never see what you have.

greediron · (This post was last modified: Yesterday, 11:26 AM by greediron.)

(10-09-2025, 09:03 AM)purplefaithful Wrote: I luv KOC and he frustrates the hell out of me at times....CLEARLY he is master ninja level when it comes to QB's. Probably top 3 in the league.

My hope is we get some better luck on the injury front and this one week example of short, quick rhythm offense isnt a faded memory soon.

Let it be part of the arsenal and growth of KOC as a technician on game day planning. OL will appreciate it too.

So much this. His prep is A+ but his game day play calling is C- most of the time. As I said when JJ went down, if Carson can come in and add some veteran perspective to the offense, get KOC to work some short game into the calls, it will be a win for JJ. Hopefully JJ sees this as well as KOC.

(10-09-2025, 01:07 PM)Greylock Wrote: I think sometimes the quarterbacks that get drafted in the 1st round and had a good college career may have the attitude that what worked in college will now work in the NFL. They don't have the knowledge that they need to keep working hard and learning how to succeed at the next level.

It isn't just QB, but that intelligence, work ethic and drive are really exposed at the QB position.

StickierBuns · (This post was last modified: Yesterday, 11:48 AM by StickierBuns.)

(Yesterday, 11:23 AM)greediron Wrote: So much this. His prep is A+ but his game day play calling is C- most of the time. As I said when JJ went down, if Carson can come in and add some veteran perspective to the offense, get KOC to work some short game into the calls, it will be a win for JJ. Hopefully JJ sees this as well as KOC.

It isn't just QB, but that intelligence, work ethic and drive are really exposed at the QB position.

I see and read the complaints on here from fans about KOC's playcalling and it just doesn't seem to align with his 37-19 regular season record and being tied for 5th in the NFL for winning percentage at .661. Then I'll read that BFlo has bailed out KOC in that regard, but I've read the last few weeks how 'gimmicky' the D is and some fans actually complaining about the 'run' defense and other nitpicking. I mean, lol, which is it? Then I post a stat about how the O-line has been a complete shambles this season yet a 3-2 record and crickets. And this thread about how a guy who's knocking it out of the park (Danny Dimes) gives him straight up cred about not only prep but game planning.

KOC isn't beyond reproach, nobody is, but its seems online he just gets this strange criticism about how he calls a game. IMO its a bigtime case of some fans being too close to the trees to see the forest. When plays don't work or when they work, its usually more about execution than what the actual play is that's been called. You don't get to a .661 winning percentage by being a bad play caller....you just don't. Maybe fans are venting, which we all do, but it seems uncalled for or at least misguided in the big picture.

greediron · Yesterday, 11:50 AM

(Yesterday, 11:36 AM)StickierBuns Wrote: I see and read the complaints on here from fans about KOC's playcalling and it just doesn't seem to align with his 37-19 regular season record and being tied for 5th in the NFL for winning percentage at .661. Then I'll read that BFlo has bailed out KOC in that regard, but I've read the last few weeks how 'gimmicky' the D is and some fans actually complaining about the 'run' defense and other nitpicking. I mean, lol, which is it? Then I post a stat about how the O-line has been a complete shambles this season yet a 3-2 record and crickets. And this thread about how a guy who's knocking it out of the park (Danny Dimes) gives him straight up cred about not only prep but game planning.

KOC isn't beyond reproach, nobody is, but its seems online he just gets this strange criticism about how he calls a game. IMO its a bigtime case of some fans being too close to the trees to see the forest. When plays don't work or when they work, its usually more about execution than what the actual play is that's been called. You don't get to a .661 winning percentage by being a bad play caller....you just don't. Maybe fans are venting, which we all do, but it seems uncalled for in the big picture.

He isn't bad at it, but depends too much on the deep drop/long pass plays. Saw it last year with Darnold and then with JJ and Carson this year. If the O-line is solid, it works more often than not, but Detroit and LAR blew up our interior last year and KOC had no answer. We spent a fortune to shore that up this year, but without CD, our line struggled.

It isn't that hard to watch the game an wonder where the slants and quick passes were. Last week (I didn't get to watch that game) with the k-mart o-line, KOC finally called some short quick passes and it worked.

He has been getting better about sticking with the running game, especially since CD came back.

StickierBuns · Yesterday, 11:55 AM

(Yesterday, 11:50 AM)greediron Wrote: It isn't that hard to watch the game an wonder where the slants and quick passes were. Last week (I didn't get to watch that game) with the k-mart o-line, KOC finally called some short quick passes and it worked.

...but the impactful passes were the deeper ones, especially to Jefferson. That's the offense: a good running attack and chunk plays in the passing game. One of the biggest differences in the football game was the halfback TD pass from Akers to Oliver, so IMO the slants and quick passes really didn't make a huge difference in winning.