Take this how you will

[Guest]

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@RS Express said:
Pauline is half right.  I think the Vikings' wet dream scenario is Hamilton falling to 12. If Stingley and Hamilton are both gone too, they'll look for trade partners. After trading with each other already, Philly and NO could end up playing leapfrog to get Jameson Williams.  #15 and a 3 and still get McDuffie would leave me happy.

I'm very curious with how the Vikings would handle Hamilton. On one-hand he'd help the secondary just with his pure talent alone. But what is the ROI on a #2 safety, albeit one who could take over the main role quickly, in the middle of the 1st? I might be biased since I'm high on Cine. 

The position not oft talked about that there is a lot of smoke on is WR. If Stingley/Sauce and the elite edge rushers are off the board I just wouldn't sleep on WR. Its long-term cost control when Jefferson gets $20M+/yr, its insurance for Thielen, and its 11-personnel for a team without a great #2 TE. 

I'd argue that Wilson, Olave, or even Williams brings more value than Hamilton. But the question is, what could you trade back for? 

I’ve said as much in another thread but Gardner, Williams, and Hamilton are all must-draft if any if the 3 are there at 12. Williams has uncapped upside versus the other WRs in this class. Even if he misses half of 2022 that’s a bummer but hey, so did Darrisaw. Is anyone mad about that pick now, besides maybe Zim? Trading down is only a good idea if we net a 2023 first, IMO. If we can do that then yes it’s worth it. But passing up any of these aforementioned 3 just to pick up an extra 3rd rounder or something along those lines would be peak “overthinking it” to me. 

[Guest]

@pattersaur said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@RS Express said:
Pauline is half right.  I think the Vikings' wet dream scenario is Hamilton falling to 12. If Stingley and Hamilton are both gone too, they'll look for trade partners. After trading with each other already, Philly and NO could end up playing leapfrog to get Jameson Williams.  #15 and a 3 and still get McDuffie would leave me happy.

I'm very curious with how the Vikings would handle Hamilton. On one-hand he'd help the secondary just with his pure talent alone. But what is the ROI on a #2 safety, albeit one who could take over the main role quickly, in the middle of the 1st? I might be biased since I'm high on Cine. 

The position not oft talked about that there is a lot of smoke on is WR. If Stingley/Sauce and the elite edge rushers are off the board I just wouldn't sleep on WR. Its long-term cost control when Jefferson gets $20M+/yr, its insurance for Thielen, and its 11-personnel for a team without a great #2 TE. 

I'd argue that Wilson, Olave, or even Williams brings more value than Hamilton. But the question is, what could you trade back for? 

I’ve said as much in another thread but Gardner, Williams, and Hamilton are all must-draft if any if the 3 are there at 12. Williams has uncapped upside versus the other WRs in this class. Even if he misses half of 2022 that’s a bummer but hey, so did Darrisaw. Is anyone mad about that pick now, besides maybe Zim? Trading down is only a good idea if we net a 2023 first, IMO. If we can do that then yes it’s worth it. But passing up any of these aforementioned 3 just to pick up an extra 3rd rounder or something along those lines would be peak “overthinking it” to me. 

I agree on the bold.

[Guest]

@kmillard said:

@pattersaur said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@RS Express said:
Pauline is half right.  I think the Vikings' wet dream scenario is Hamilton falling to 12. If Stingley and Hamilton are both gone too, they'll look for trade partners. After trading with each other already, Philly and NO could end up playing leapfrog to get Jameson Williams.  #15 and a 3 and still get McDuffie would leave me happy.

I'm very curious with how the Vikings would handle Hamilton. On one-hand he'd help the secondary just with his pure talent alone. But what is the ROI on a #2 safety, albeit one who could take over the main role quickly, in the middle of the 1st? I might be biased since I'm high on Cine. 

The position not oft talked about that there is a lot of smoke on is WR. If Stingley/Sauce and the elite edge rushers are off the board I just wouldn't sleep on WR. Its long-term cost control when Jefferson gets $20M+/yr, its insurance for Thielen, and its 11-personnel for a team without a great #2 TE. 

I'd argue that Wilson, Olave, or even Williams brings more value than Hamilton. But the question is, what could you trade back for? 

I’ve said as much in another thread but Gardner, Williams, and Hamilton are all must-draft if any if the 3 are there at 12. Williams has uncapped upside versus the other WRs in this class. Even if he misses half of 2022 that’s a bummer but hey, so did Darrisaw. Is anyone mad about that pick now, besides maybe Zim? Trading down is only a good idea if we net a 2023 first, IMO. If we can do that then yes it’s worth it. But passing up any of these aforementioned 3 just to pick up an extra 3rd rounder or something along those lines would be peak “overthinking it” to me. 

I agree on the bold.

Not necessarily,  I agree that the goal of trading down should be to net a 1st in 23,  8 agree that those 3 mentioned would be must picks,  but you arent likely to get that 1st in 23 if you arent willing to give up quality at 12.  I dont see teams wanting QBs waiting until 12 and I dont see any other than these 3 or QBs generating the type of furrow that would have teams sacrificing their 23 first round pick.  Imo if you want that first you better be willing to give up a premium player,  or hope jerruh is off his meds again.

[Guest]

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@RS Express said:
Pauline is half right.  I think the Vikings' wet dream scenario is Hamilton falling to 12. If Stingley and Hamilton are both gone too, they'll look for trade partners. After trading with each other already, Philly and NO could end up playing leapfrog to get Jameson Williams.  #15 and a 3 and still get McDuffie would leave me happy.

I'm very curious with how the Vikings would handle Hamilton. On one-hand he'd help the secondary just with his pure talent alone. But what is the ROI on a #2 safety, albeit one who could take over the main role quickly, in the middle of the 1st? I might be biased since I'm high on Cine. 

The position not oft talked about that there is a lot of smoke on is WR. If Stingley/Sauce and the elite edge rushers are off the board I just wouldn't sleep on WR. Its long-term cost control when Jefferson gets $20M+/yr, its insurance for Thielen, and its 11-personnel for a team without a great #2 TE. 

I'd argue that Wilson, Olave, or even Williams brings more value than Hamilton. But the question is, what could you trade back for? 

Yeah, I'm not a fan of taking safety that high either. But I think you have to make an exception with Hamilton. There's more than one round in the draft, and I like the 2nd round receivers a lot more than the 2nd round safeties. IOW, Hamilton is a much better player than SAF2. But the difference between WR1 and WR5 just isn't that great. I think if you polled five different scouts, you'd get five different rankings on the WRs. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@RS Express said:
Pauline is half right.  I think the Vikings' wet dream scenario is Hamilton falling to 12. If Stingley and Hamilton are both gone too, they'll look for trade partners. After trading with each other already, Philly and NO could end up playing leapfrog to get Jameson Williams.  #15 and a 3 and still get McDuffie would leave me happy.

I'm very curious with how the Vikings would handle Hamilton. On one-hand he'd help the secondary just with his pure talent alone. But what is the ROI on a #2 safety, albeit one who could take over the main role quickly, in the middle of the 1st? I might be biased since I'm high on Cine. 

The position not oft talked about that there is a lot of smoke on is WR. If Stingley/Sauce and the elite edge rushers are off the board I just wouldn't sleep on WR. Its long-term cost control when Jefferson gets $20M+/yr, its insurance for Thielen, and its 11-personnel for a team without a great #2 TE. 

I'd argue that Wilson, Olave, or even Williams brings more value than Hamilton. But the question is, what could you trade back for? 

Yeah, I'm not a fan of taking safety that high either. But I think you have to make an exception with Hamilton. There's more than one round in the draft, and I like the 2nd round receivers a lot more than the 2nd round safeties. IOW, Hamilton is a much better player than SAF2. But the difference between WR1 and WR5 just isn't that great. I think if you polled five different scouts, you'd get five different rankings on the WRs. 

Agree on the WRs, its a preference on which type of receiver you want/need. I would disagree on Hamilton and safeties a bit. While Hamilton will be the unanimous #1 on teams boards I wouldn't write off either Daxton Hill or Cine. Hamilton is the best all-around player if you want to play a lot of 1 or 2 high looks. But the reason is he falling is that although he's loose/athletic he just lacks the ability to cover players 1x1 in space. I would argue Hill's play speed is one of the fastest in the draft. You can use him on-top similar to Hamilton but you also get a guy who can line up in the slot or on the outside. Cine is a half-tier lower. He is by far the best at playing angles in the run game and makes plays over the top. But he is limited playing anything inside the hashes behind the line of scrimmage. 

[Guest]

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@MaroonBells said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@RS Express said:
Pauline is half right.  I think the Vikings' wet dream scenario is Hamilton falling to 12. If Stingley and Hamilton are both gone too, they'll look for trade partners. After trading with each other already, Philly and NO could end up playing leapfrog to get Jameson Williams.  #15 and a 3 and still get McDuffie would leave me happy.

I'm very curious with how the Vikings would handle Hamilton. On one-hand he'd help the secondary just with his pure talent alone. But what is the ROI on a #2 safety, albeit one who could take over the main role quickly, in the middle of the 1st? I might be biased since I'm high on Cine. 

The position not oft talked about that there is a lot of smoke on is WR. If Stingley/Sauce and the elite edge rushers are off the board I just wouldn't sleep on WR. Its long-term cost control when Jefferson gets $20M+/yr, its insurance for Thielen, and its 11-personnel for a team without a great #2 TE. 

I'd argue that Wilson, Olave, or even Williams brings more value than Hamilton. But the question is, what could you trade back for? 

Yeah, I'm not a fan of taking safety that high either. But I think you have to make an exception with Hamilton. There's more than one round in the draft, and I like the 2nd round receivers a lot more than the 2nd round safeties. IOW, Hamilton is a much better player than SAF2. But the difference between WR1 and WR5 just isn't that great. I think if you polled five different scouts, you'd get five different rankings on the WRs. 

Agree on the WRs, its a preference on which type of receiver you want/need. I would disagree on Hamilton and safeties a bit. While Hamilton will be the unanimous #1 on teams boards I wouldn't write off either Daxton Hill or Cine. Hamilton is the best all-around player if you want to play a lot of 1 or 2 high looks. But the reason is he falling is that although he's loose/athletic he just lacks the ability to cover players 1x1 in space. I would argue Hill's play speed is one of the fastest in the draft. You can use him on-top similar to Hamilton but you also get a guy who can line up in the slot or on the outside. Cine is a half-tier lower. He is by far the best at playing angles in the run game and makes plays over the top. But he is limited playing anything inside the hashes behind the line of scrimmage. 

I like those guys just fine...I'd even throw in Nick Cross, whom I think is probably being a little underrated. Still, all of them are typical safeties in a typical draft. Hamilton is generational. His movement skills and instincts pop off the screen. I don't care what he ran. Keep in mind, Ed Reed, 5X All Pro safety, had the same 40 time. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@MaroonBells said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@RS Express said:
Pauline is half right.  I think the Vikings' wet dream scenario is Hamilton falling to 12. If Stingley and Hamilton are both gone too, they'll look for trade partners. After trading with each other already, Philly and NO could end up playing leapfrog to get Jameson Williams.  #15 and a 3 and still get McDuffie would leave me happy.

I'm very curious with how the Vikings would handle Hamilton. On one-hand he'd help the secondary just with his pure talent alone. But what is the ROI on a #2 safety, albeit one who could take over the main role quickly, in the middle of the 1st? I might be biased since I'm high on Cine. 

The position not oft talked about that there is a lot of smoke on is WR. If Stingley/Sauce and the elite edge rushers are off the board I just wouldn't sleep on WR. Its long-term cost control when Jefferson gets $20M+/yr, its insurance for Thielen, and its 11-personnel for a team without a great #2 TE. 

I'd argue that Wilson, Olave, or even Williams brings more value than Hamilton. But the question is, what could you trade back for? 

Yeah, I'm not a fan of taking safety that high either. But I think you have to make an exception with Hamilton. There's more than one round in the draft, and I like the 2nd round receivers a lot more than the 2nd round safeties. IOW, Hamilton is a much better player than SAF2. But the difference between WR1 and WR5 just isn't that great. I think if you polled five different scouts, you'd get five different rankings on the WRs. 

Agree on the WRs, its a preference on which type of receiver you want/need. I would disagree on Hamilton and safeties a bit. While Hamilton will be the unanimous #1 on teams boards I wouldn't write off either Daxton Hill or Cine. Hamilton is the best all-around player if you want to play a lot of 1 or 2 high looks. But the reason is he falling is that although he's loose/athletic he just lacks the ability to cover players 1x1 in space. I would argue Hill's play speed is one of the fastest in the draft. You can use him on-top similar to Hamilton but you also get a guy who can line up in the slot or on the outside. Cine is a half-tier lower. He is by far the best at playing angles in the run game and makes plays over the top. But he is limited playing anything inside the hashes behind the line of scrimmage. 

I like those guys just fine...I'd even throw in Nick Cross, whom I think is probably being a little underrated. Still, all of them are typical safeties in a typical draft. Hamilton is generational. His movement skills and instincts pop off the screen. I don't care what he ran. Keep in mind, Ed Reed, 5X All Pro safety, had the same 40 time. 

Agree about Cross. I tell ya, my dream draft in the first three rounds would end up something like Stingley, Pickens (although I'm getting a feeling that he may end up going in the first), and Cross. If that happens I may just end up going streaking.

[Guest]

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@RS Express said:
Pauline is half right.  I think the Vikings' wet dream scenario is Hamilton falling to 12. If Stingley and Hamilton are both gone too, they'll look for trade partners. After trading with each other already, Philly and NO could end up playing leapfrog to get Jameson Williams.  #15 and a 3 and still get McDuffie would leave me happy.

I'm very curious with how the Vikings would handle Hamilton. On one-hand he'd help the secondary just with his pure talent alone. But what is the ROI on a #2 safety, albeit one who could take over the main role quickly, in the middle of the 1st? I might be biased since I'm high on Cine. 

The position not oft talked about that there is a lot of smoke on is WR. If Stingley/Sauce and the elite edge rushers are off the board I just wouldn't sleep on WR. Its long-term cost control when Jefferson gets $20M+/yr, its insurance for Thielen, and its 11-personnel for a team without a great #2 TE. 

I'd argue that Wilson, Olave, or even Williams brings more value than Hamilton. But the question is, what could you trade back for? 

I’m totally on board with your logic here.  A young discounted WR stud like Williams makes the most sense to me.  You have a coach that will know how to use him, and you fix things like safety later in the draft or in FA at a much cheaper price than you would at a premium position.

[Guest]

@PurpleCrush said:

@MaroonBells said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@MaroonBells said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@RS Express said:
Pauline is half right.  I think the Vikings' wet dream scenario is Hamilton falling to 12. If Stingley and Hamilton are both gone too, they'll look for trade partners. After trading with each other already, Philly and NO could end up playing leapfrog to get Jameson Williams.  #15 and a 3 and still get McDuffie would leave me happy.

I'm very curious with how the Vikings would handle Hamilton. On one-hand he'd help the secondary just with his pure talent alone. But what is the ROI on a #2 safety, albeit one who could take over the main role quickly, in the middle of the 1st? I might be biased since I'm high on Cine. 

The position not oft talked about that there is a lot of smoke on is WR. If Stingley/Sauce and the elite edge rushers are off the board I just wouldn't sleep on WR. Its long-term cost control when Jefferson gets $20M+/yr, its insurance for Thielen, and its 11-personnel for a team without a great #2 TE. 

I'd argue that Wilson, Olave, or even Williams brings more value than Hamilton. But the question is, what could you trade back for? 

Yeah, I'm not a fan of taking safety that high either. But I think you have to make an exception with Hamilton. There's more than one round in the draft, and I like the 2nd round receivers a lot more than the 2nd round safeties. IOW, Hamilton is a much better player than SAF2. But the difference between WR1 and WR5 just isn't that great. I think if you polled five different scouts, you'd get five different rankings on the WRs. 

Agree on the WRs, its a preference on which type of receiver you want/need. I would disagree on Hamilton and safeties a bit. While Hamilton will be the unanimous #1 on teams boards I wouldn't write off either Daxton Hill or Cine. Hamilton is the best all-around player if you want to play a lot of 1 or 2 high looks. But the reason is he falling is that although he's loose/athletic he just lacks the ability to cover players 1x1 in space. I would argue Hill's play speed is one of the fastest in the draft. You can use him on-top similar to Hamilton but you also get a guy who can line up in the slot or on the outside. Cine is a half-tier lower. He is by far the best at playing angles in the run game and makes plays over the top. But he is limited playing anything inside the hashes behind the line of scrimmage. 

I like those guys just fine...I'd even throw in Nick Cross, whom I think is probably being a little underrated. Still, all of them are typical safeties in a typical draft. Hamilton is generational. His movement skills and instincts pop off the screen. I don't care what he ran. Keep in mind, Ed Reed, 5X All Pro safety, had the same 40 time. 

Agree about Cross. I tell ya, my dream draft in the first three rounds would end up something like Stingley, Pickens (although I'm getting a feeling that he may end up going in the first), and Cross. If that happens I may just end up going streaking.

$20 says you wont. Anyone else with me?

[Guest]

@Hawkvike25 said:

@PurpleCrush said:

@MaroonBells said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@MaroonBells said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@RS Express said:
Pauline is half right.  I think the Vikings' wet dream scenario is Hamilton falling to 12. If Stingley and Hamilton are both gone too, they'll look for trade partners. After trading with each other already, Philly and NO could end up playing leapfrog to get Jameson Williams.  #15 and a 3 and still get McDuffie would leave me happy.

I'm very curious with how the Vikings would handle Hamilton. On one-hand he'd help the secondary just with his pure talent alone. But what is the ROI on a #2 safety, albeit one who could take over the main role quickly, in the middle of the 1st? I might be biased since I'm high on Cine. 

The position not oft talked about that there is a lot of smoke on is WR. If Stingley/Sauce and the elite edge rushers are off the board I just wouldn't sleep on WR. Its long-term cost control when Jefferson gets $20M+/yr, its insurance for Thielen, and its 11-personnel for a team without a great #2 TE. 

I'd argue that Wilson, Olave, or even Williams brings more value than Hamilton. But the question is, what could you trade back for? 

Yeah, I'm not a fan of taking safety that high either. But I think you have to make an exception with Hamilton. There's more than one round in the draft, and I like the 2nd round receivers a lot more than the 2nd round safeties. IOW, Hamilton is a much better player than SAF2. But the difference between WR1 and WR5 just isn't that great. I think if you polled five different scouts, you'd get five different rankings on the WRs. 

Agree on the WRs, its a preference on which type of receiver you want/need. I would disagree on Hamilton and safeties a bit. While Hamilton will be the unanimous #1 on teams boards I wouldn't write off either Daxton Hill or Cine. Hamilton is the best all-around player if you want to play a lot of 1 or 2 high looks. But the reason is he falling is that although he's loose/athletic he just lacks the ability to cover players 1x1 in space. I would argue Hill's play speed is one of the fastest in the draft. You can use him on-top similar to Hamilton but you also get a guy who can line up in the slot or on the outside. Cine is a half-tier lower. He is by far the best at playing angles in the run game and makes plays over the top. But he is limited playing anything inside the hashes behind the line of scrimmage. 

I like those guys just fine...I'd even throw in Nick Cross, whom I think is probably being a little underrated. Still, all of them are typical safeties in a typical draft. Hamilton is generational. His movement skills and instincts pop off the screen. I don't care what he ran. Keep in mind, Ed Reed, 5X All Pro safety, had the same 40 time. 

Agree about Cross. I tell ya, my dream draft in the first three rounds would end up something like Stingley, Pickens (although I'm getting a feeling that he may end up going in the first), and Cross. If that happens I may just end up going streaking.

$20 says you wont. Anyone else with me?

I'm +40 and overweight.  How much $$ to not go streaking?