JJ McCarthy camp hoping for Trade out of Minnesota (article)

[Zanary]

So in the above stats, are we comparing JJM in his first (6?) games against other QBs in their first (6?) games, or they comparing his first (6?) games to other QBs first 17 games, or first 3 seasons, or their whole career?

I'd imagine that for most QBs their first 5,6,8, 10 ( whatever number) or going to be their worst.  Then over time, they get used to game speed.  They get used to what they can or can't get away with.  Like, you wouldn't compare how good your first grader can read to how good the second graders can read, and then start calling them dumb because the second graders are better readers, because duh.  I just kind of felt like the media did that to JJM midseason, and was curious if that was actually true.

There's also a trend where his naysayers use stats from his first few games, where his stats were most brutal, as headlines for their posts. When pointing out the rather slanted approach (in my patented, gentle ways), I got the usual "get off his jock" responses, which is yet more indication of how much patience a young QB will get from much of the fanbase.

[purplefaithful]

There's also a trend where his naysayers use stats from his first few games, where his stats were most brutal, as headlines for their posts. When pointing out the rather slanted approach (in my patented, gentle ways), I got the usual "get off his jock" responses, which is yet more indication of how much patience a young QB will get from much of the fanbase.

I think as a broad fanbase we have failed (pretty badly) at having patience with a green, young QB...I know I have. 

ITs one thing if the kid is a 5th rd pick out of bowling green, but a top 10 pick? I should dig deeper to have more patience with so much more at stake. 

Still rooting for JJ (and Murray too).

[JimmyinSD]

I think as a broad fanbase we have failed (pretty badly) at having patience with a green, young QB...I know I have. 

ITs one thing if the kid is a 5th rd pick out of bowling green, but a top 10 pick? I should dig deeper to have more patience with so much more at stake. 

Still rooting for JJ (and Murray too).

which is exactly why we shouldnt have jumped on the Murray wagon, you are either all in on a prospect like JJM,  or you are out IMO.  He didnt come in needing a ton of work like you say with later round picks,  he got his learning year on the side with his knee injury,  now he needs reps reps and more reps,  and when hes gotten all those reps,  he needs even more.  They are essentially shelving his development efforts after only 10 games which IMO is gross coaching misconduct.  I was against him being a week 1 starter his rookie year,  and possibly even last year after his lack of offseason work and KOCs not letting him get more live fire in the pre-season,  but this year and next year are his time to prove a 2nd contract and that opportunity has been taken from him.

[purplefaithful]

which is exactly why we shouldnt have jumped on the Murray wagon, you are either all in on a prospect like JJM,  or you are out IMO.  He didnt come in needing a ton of work like you say with later round picks,  he got his learning year on the side with his knee injury,  now he needs reps reps and more reps,  and when hes gotten all those reps,  he needs even more.  They are essentially shelving his development efforts after only 10 games which IMO is gross coaching misconduct.  I was against him being a week 1 starter his rookie year,  and possibly even last year after his lack of offseason work and KOCs not letting him get more live fire in the pre-season,  but this year and next year are his time to prove a 2nd contract and that opportunity has been taken from him.

Well, I get that pov too...

A lot of scrutiny on the Vikings at QB to not let another Darnold/Jones leaving scenario play out. 

I'm living in a world where two opposite truths are rearing their head at the same time (and I'm unsuccessful at reconciling the two):

JJM hasn't shown enough growth (and ability to stay on the field) to risk not having a plan 1a
          - I'm not convinced the Vikings have been publicly transparent with all things JJ that concern them 
          - I do believe its a true competition at QB this summer

Reps would be more beneficial to JJ than watching Murray for a year (ala Darnold in SF)

[Zanary]

which is exactly why we shouldnt have jumped on the Murray wagon, you are either all in on a prospect like JJM,  or you are out IMO.  He didnt come in needing a ton of work like you say with later round picks,  he got his learning year on the side with his knee injury,  now he needs reps reps and more reps,  and when hes gotten all those reps,  he needs even more.  They are essentially shelving his development efforts after only 10 games which IMO is gross coaching misconduct.  I was against him being a week 1 starter his rookie year,  and possibly even last year after his lack of offseason work and KOCs not letting him get more live fire in the pre-season,  but this year and next year are his time to prove a 2nd contract and that opportunity has been taken from him.

In this, we continue to be absolutely agreed, but I make one edit:

as I don't know what's going on behind the scenes with KOC and JJM, I reserve some hope that our HC isn't bailing (and failing) on JJM, but enjoying a rare chance to have a herd of game-ready QBs available...a pure luxury unavailable in '23 and '25.

I hope the development is ongoing, and that the deafening rumors from the sports bobbleheads turns out to be the static that it typically is.

[medaille]

which is exactly why we shouldnt have jumped on the Murray wagon, you are either all in on a prospect like JJM,  or you are out IMO.  He didnt come in needing a ton of work like you say with later round picks,  he got his learning year on the side with his knee injury,  now he needs reps reps and more reps,  and when hes gotten all those reps,  he needs even more.  They are essentially shelving his development efforts after only 10 games which IMO is gross coaching misconduct.  I was against him being a week 1 starter his rookie year,  and possibly even last year after his lack of offseason work and KOCs not letting him get more live fire in the pre-season,  but this year and next year are his time to prove a 2nd contract and that opportunity has been taken from him.

I’m fine with this situation.  The biggest problem I have with teams is that they draft a QB high, don’t support him, hang on way too long, give him a big contract and all of a sudden you find that 8 years have passed and everyone is just done with him, meanwhile they passed on 2-3 other QB options hoping for the only option they had to get better.

I like having a deep QB room.  I like competition and letting the best person in practice win the job.  Also, it’s not like Murray at $1.3M or whatever the number was, is hugely derailing JJM, in the same way that bringing in a guy for $50M a year could be.  I think the biggest area for concern for me, is that when you have multiple options, the media jackals and the fans are always clamoring for the backup to get in.  The coach needs to be strong in his conviction that he picked right.

[JimmyinSD]

I’m fine with this situation.  The biggest problem I have with teams is that they draft a QB high, don’t support him, hang on way too long, give him a big contract and all of a sudden you find that 8 years have passed and everyone is just done with him, meanwhile they passed on 2-3 other QB options hoping for the only option they had to get better.

I like having a deep QB room.  I like competition and letting the best person in practice win the job.  Also, it’s not like Murray at $1.3M or whatever the number was, is hugely derailing JJM, in the same way that bringing in a guy for $50M a year could be.  I think the biggest area for concern for me, is that when you have multiple options, the media jackals and the fans are always clamoring for the backup to get in.  The coach needs to be strong in his conviction that he picked right.

I dont know that I buy the narrative that KM came here to compete for the job.  He needs to prove himself this year for a new big money deal,  and the only way that happens is if he starts this year and performs well.  So while the team may be saying its a competition, I doubt that is what Murray was told,  otherwise I would suspect he would have had other more concrete opportunities to start.

I hope I am wrong,  I hope our coach is a man of his word,  but its about $$$ and that comes from wins and losses,  even if those wins dont get the ultimate prize,  they just need to be enough to keep KOC employed and people buying season tickets.

[supafreak84]

which is exactly why we shouldnt have jumped on the Murray wagon, you are either all in on a prospect like JJM,  or you are out IMO.  He didnt come in needing a ton of work like you say with later round picks,  he got his learning year on the side with his knee injury,  now he needs reps reps and more reps,  and when hes gotten all those reps,  he needs even more.  They are essentially shelving his development efforts after only 10 games which IMO is gross coaching misconduct.  I was against him being a week 1 starter his rookie year,  and possibly even last year after his lack of offseason work and KOCs not letting him get more live fire in the pre-season,  but this year and next year are his time to prove a 2nd contract and that opportunity has been taken from him.

Agreed. Unfortunately McCarthy's growth timeline did not match up with OConnell's employment timeline, which is, "I better win a playoff game THIS YEAR or good chance I'm not back in 2027." With the other unfortunate being that OConnell was given even more personnel power....so of course he's in preservation mode and is rolling the dice on Murray, even if he isn't the ideal fit in what he wants to do offensively. That's why I say the Wilf's should have had the Kwesi cluster figured out before the end of season and hired a new GM that tied OConnell's future to the "whisperer's" ability to bring along McCarthy. The organization has essentially sabotaged the McCarthy plan and this is the antithesis of "organizations fail young quarterbacks before young quarterbacks fail organizations." The sole purpose of bringing in OConnell as coach was to identify a young franchise quarterback to build around and get off the year to year rentals that have plagied this organization for 20 years and they've failed miserably in letting OConnell now call the shots as he scrambles to save his own ass.

[SurfnRide]

So in the above stats, are we comparing JJM in his first (6?) games against other QBs in their first (6?) games, or they comparing his first (6?) games to other QBs first 17 games, or first 3 seasons, or their whole career?

I'd imagine that for most QBs their first 5,6,8, 10 ( whatever number) or going to be their worst.  Then over time, they get used to game speed.  They get used to what they can or can't get away with.  Like, you wouldn't compare how good your first grader can read to how good the second graders can read, and then start calling them dumb because the second graders are better readers, because duh.  I just kind of felt like the media did that to JJM midseason, and was curious if that was actually true.

All I am saying is I don't think other owners are lining up to take McCarthy.  He is a winner but he was in a massively run heavy offense which gave him a lot of 1 on 1 coverage in college.  Against college level DB's.  

And throw in the injury history and I just don't see anyone taking a flyer on him unless its for near nothing.   

We keep him as our #2 in case Murray gets hurt or stinks it up.  Then he is going to have 1 last shot to prove his worth or C-ya.

[JimmyinSD]

All I am saying is I don't think other owners are lining up to take McCarthy.  He is a winner but he was in a massively run heavy offense which gave him a lot of 1 on 1 coverage in college.  Against college level DB's.  

And throw in the injury history and I just don't see anyone taking a flyer on him unless its for near nothing.   

We keep him as our #2 for when Murray gets hurt or stinks it up.  Then he is going to have 1 last shot to prove his worth or C-ya.

fixed it for ya!